Popular Post hidude45454 Posted April 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2022 (edited) The Introduction Sponsored by DNN: https://discord.gg/MDYdBkzFh4 (but I would love if people shared this in other news servers as well!) To most experienced people, this much is already known. But it's hard to come to conclusions with just strong sentiments alone, so why not prove it with numbers? For some context, Castle Camelot is the Camelot offshoot alliance primarily for members without Discord. This is their recruitment message: The Bank Logs The first place my investigation led me was to automatically log every transaction to and from every Castle Camelot member in the past 2 months: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hn-o8PryN7qfWTC0ArqLaMkuJW6CFeinPShH96Pk2ks/edit#gid=0 Between 115 transactions not involving looting other alliances or doing business with external alliances, here's how it breaks down: 6 deposits from government members with a value of ~$543m 31 withdrawals from government members with a value of ~$1.65b (6 of which were directly from Castle Camelot, with a value of ~$1b) 33 deposits from alliance members with a value of ~$664m 45 withdrawals to alliance members with a value of ~$141m (41 grants, 4 loans/withdrawals/misc) Obviously, there are a lot of glaring errors here. Like, why are there only 78 total transactions between 194 members? That number gets even worse when looking at the 41 grants. The Grant System All 41 were welcoming grants, as specified in the recruitment message. If that weren't already bad enough (I'll get to that later), it's already clear that not everyone who joins Castle Camelot even gets a welcoming grant. 166 of the current members joined the alliance in the past 2 months, so there is not even an excuse of members getting a welcoming grant only after a certain time staying in the alliance. Furthermore, it appears that the grants that were given out were only hastily done, mostly on the same day, not relevant to when each individual member actually joined the alliance: (Don't want to screenshot all of them but you get the point) I was curious why there were no other grants ever sent out beyond these ones, so I did a little digging. Here's a sample of what actual current and former members told me when asked if there were any other grants even available for members: So, this much is clear -- Castle Camelot is not remotely interested in growing its members. The Government So, let's look at the opposite side of the coin. How is the government doing on grants? Well this much isn't shocking, but it is disappointing nonetheless. The leader is not only withdrawing poorly-tagged money from the bank, but also depositing it later under his own name and using it to fund his own cities. Without me prompting it, this is what another member had to say: When your own members know it's happening, that's when you know you're really not even trying to hide it! EDIT: Flavee has offered a perspective from Camelot of some of the money sent, and although I can't definitively connect or disconnect links between it and Castle Camelot, I can confirm the screenshots are legitimate and therefore have pasted the full chat logs available in an Imgur album for the sake of transparency and fairness in judgement: https://imgur.com/a/LqtCSZJ The Taxes (and how Castle Camelot Makes Money) And, the final piece of the puzzle. My first mission was discovering what the Castle Camelot tax rate was. Members more or less gave the same corroborating evidence: The next part was figuring out how much Castle Camelot makes in a day. Thanks to Locutus for being useful for this as always, also thanks to Locutus for excluding people who don't contribute to alliance tax revenue (grey nations, VM nations, etc): And the final part I needed was simply the alliance score graph: Now about 2 months ago, Castle Camelot was only about half the score as it is today, so I'll be generous and estimate that the revenue back then was also about half of 195m. Putting that together, from the relatively linear growth rate, we can estimate that Castle Camelot members made about 8.8b in cash and resources in the past 2 months. Combining that information with the 30% tax rate, we can then estimate that Castle Camelot earned about 2.6b in tax revenue. No small number! So, let's put all of the numbers together one more time. In the past two months: ~$543m deposited by gov ~$1.65b withdrawn from gov ~$664m deposited by members (much of which, I assume, will not be returned by Castle Camelot or kept if members quit) ~$141m withdrawn to members, ~123m of which was from welcoming bonuses ~2.6b made in tax revenue I don't have to explain why numbers of this scale don't lie! Why We Should Care I'll keep this part short and sweet. It may be easy to not care about a bunch of noobs who joined an alliance because they didn't want to use Discord, but I think that it's important everyone who joins PnW is served to their best interests and not taken advantage of regardless of where they start out. I'll leave a final quote as food for thought here to what should happen: And all that from a very brief set of interactions I had. I cannot overstate this enough -- a little compassion can go a long way! The Future There are three different ways I see this going for me. First, the Camelot crew declares war on me in retaliation (come at me bro), second, they dodge questions and gaslight the public and their members not to believe my lies, or third, they admit it and give a so what. Whatever it is, I don't see them apologizing or trying to fix their mistakes, because evidently this is a profitable venture for them. So, I would like to give a call to action for all alliances to do a few things: First, poach, poach, poach! Spread awareness to all Castle Camelot members that they're being scammed, and that your alliance will accept the better ones with open arms. Like with the message above, some just need some proper attention in order to get more involved in the game! And to the ones who don't want or cannot make a Discord regardless, there are still plenty of other alliances available (for example, SoL) that will actually help their newer members out. Second, if you still don't care enough to do that, why not launch a crusade to liberate the members? Would be a proper example of a fun CB that ceased to exist in this game far too long ago. A Thanks Thank you to the reader for reading until the very end! Thanks to the DNN staff for providing some info, and to the current and former Castle Camelot members who so patiently fielded my many questions. And, if anyone would like me to investigate any other alliance, no matter how big or small, feel free to shoot me a DM on Discord or in-game! Edited April 11, 2022 by hidude45454 4 1 43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 (edited) why would people want to poach non-discord members? smh 10 minutes ago, hidude45454 said: Thank you to the reader for reading until the very end! You're welcome, I'm always happy to help Edited April 9, 2022 by Malal 1 Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnauzerguy Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Wtf! Leaving castle camelot 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Keynes Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 RIP Castle Cam members 1 Quote My opinion may not reflect those of my alliance or its affiliates. Please read at your own discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Knox Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Oh boy. Looking forward to seeing what Cam's response to this will be. By the way, did you look at the bank transactions of their other alliances too or just Castle Cam (curious)? If not, do you intend to? Quote Federation of Knox Enlightened of Chaos, Event Horizon QA Team and API Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinesomeMC Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Worse than GPWC, because GPWC members really only cared about the manwha not the game. 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalmor Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Oh no no no Camelot bros. We got to cocky! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Raphael Posted April 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, Jacob Knox said: Oh boy. Looking forward to seeing what Cam's response to this will be. Spoiler: Silence 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVoider Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Thanks,you open my mind Leaving right now 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayor Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 It's Camelot, honestly are people even really surprised at this point. Good work tho anyways hidude! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rips You Off Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Reverse crusades works for me Quote Local Clown Local Warmonger Local Scammer Local Arms Dealer Local Crime Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr James Wilson Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 On 4/8/2022 at 9:35 PM, roberts said: Spoiler: Silence Actually Epi's response was to spout a bunch of nonsense about how they 'offer' things to them. It was actually very funny and entertaining to watch him twist himself into a pretzel trying to defend it. 1 Quote The Volleyball Avanti Immortali ..one, two, Jimmy's coming for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Again what kind of scumbag do you have to be to run an alliance and take advantage of the people you are supposed to be leading? It happens over and over again, and every time, I just shake my head. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulu Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 On 4/8/2022 at 9:04 PM, Schnauzerguy said: Wtf! Leaving castle camelot your in arrgh lmfao 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternLaotian Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Very surprising that Camelot is a tax farm. They are our protectare :v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheus Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Politics aside (fat chance), if a group of people are leveraging their access to discord to manipulate people who don't have access to discord, then that deserves to be condemned. Not least because if you take it to its logical conclusion and it's allowed, they'll be pressure on every alliance to manipulate non-discord members harder than their competitors to squeeze out an advantage. Which could get grim really quick. Besides, it's a pretty crappy move. On 4/9/2022 at 2:00 AM, Malal said: why would people want to poach non-discord members? smh Because being unable to get on discord shouldn't mean that you can't get to enjoy Orbis. It's like voice on high at the start of political simulators intoned "thow are worthless if thowst dost not do discord!" It's nonsense. It'd be better for the community if everyone got the chance to get involved as much as they want to. Non-discord nations can still fight, build their nations, have opinions, trade, roleplay with others and do any number of other things than interest them. For the record the alliance I'm in doesn't accept non-discord members and that wouldn't be my choice, but it's ok as long as they are alliances that do and do so because they want them to take part in their alliance and not to manipulate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Altheus said: Because being unable to get on discord shouldn't mean that you can't get to enjoy Orbis. It's like voice on high at the start of political simulators intoned "thow are worthless if thowst dost not do discord!" It's nonsense. It'd be better for the community if everyone got the chance to get involved as much as they want to. Non-discord nations can still fight, build their nations, have opinions, trade, roleplay with others and do any number of other things than interest them. For the record the alliance I'm in doesn't accept non-discord members and that wouldn't be my choice, but it's ok as long as they are alliances that do and do so because they want them to take part in their alliance and not to manipulate them. Not being on discord makes it more difficult for a Gov to do its job. To run a top of the line alliance, communication is extremely important. So if an alliance wants to take people that aren't on discord, they are then acknowledging that they will need to put in extra effort to communicate with said members. Alot of people dont want to do that, because being in gov is already a ton of work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheus Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 52 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: Not being on discord makes it more difficult for a Gov to do its job. To run a top of the line alliance, communication is extremely important. So if an alliance wants to take people that aren't on discord, they are then acknowledging that they will need to put in extra effort to communicate with said members. Alot of people dont want to do that, because being in gov is already a ton of work. Agree with all of that. Having non-discord members isn't for every alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 This looks like some very bad journalism. Clearly you set out to present a one-sided argument and didn’t seek all the facts upfront. We’ve done all we can to try to show u the evidence that your data is extremely incomplete so I’m just gonna add that, from a newish players personal exp, I was happy to pay the 30% tax for Cam leadership to counter all attacks against me plus give me a signing bonus and advice on how to progress in the game quickly. Despite the alliance affiliation Castle still gets raided by folks who don’t think Camelot will counter only to discover themselves fully slotted by Cam. We defend and help Castle members just as much as we would any member of Camelot. The tax is reasonable and fair—anyone who says otherwise has their own agenda that involves damaging Cams reputation. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Knox Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Tal said: This looks like some very bad journalism. Clearly you set out to present a one-sided argument and didn’t seek all the facts upfront. We’ve done all we can to try to show u the evidence that your data is extremely incomplete so I’m just gonna add that, from a newish players personal exp, I was happy to pay the 30% tax for Cam leadership to counter all attacks against me plus give me a signing bonus and advice on how to progress in the game quickly. Despite the alliance affiliation Castle still gets raided by folks who don’t think Camelot will counter only to discover themselves fully slotted by Cam. We defend and help Castle members just as much as we would any member of Camelot. The tax is reasonable and fair—anyone who says otherwise has their own agenda that involves damaging Cams reputation. Edit to add: You're basically saying that it's ok for an alliance to charge a 30% glorified protection and teaching fee while giving you nothing else in return. This isn't the mafia. That's not ok. Lol. Edited April 27, 2022 by Jacob Knox Quote Federation of Knox Enlightened of Chaos, Event Horizon QA Team and API Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 15 hours ago, Jacob Knox said: Edit to add: You're basically saying that it's ok for an alliance to charge a 30% glorified protection and teaching fee while giving you nothing else in return. This isn't the mafia. That's not ok. Lol. You just said its giving you protection and teaching. Paying for police and school is expensive bro. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyx Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 On 4/9/2022 at 6:30 AM, Malal said: why would people want to poach non-discord members? smh I can't get Discord due to personal reasons, and it was really hard to find an alliance that would let me join without it. While I am no longer in Castle Camelot (the taxes had nothing to do with why I left, I had a completely different reason for leaving), I am really glad that they allow members without Discord, because not many alliances do, and even after leaving, it was hard to find an alliance that would let me in. So, even if the tax rate is high, I think that CC is a great alliance for players who don't have/want to get Discord. Quote Hello. I don't know what to put here right now. I hope you're having a lovely day : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain peace Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 At my first day at the game I’ve join castle Camelot because I forgot discord password was too lazy to recover. Once I join 30/30 tax that’s ridiculously high . Very super high !! Reasonable tax will be lower than 10/5. That only time 30/30 is a reasonable tax if they fully fund every city every 10 days , fund for 1,000 land , and fund for all the building. Also fully fund for national project for every 2500 infra . If not quit that alliance ive end up quitting after I’ve see my revenue lol .. and I join Aargh because 0/0 tax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Captain peace said: At my first day at the game I’ve join castle Camelot because I forgot discord password was too lazy to recover. Once I join 30/30 tax that’s ridiculously high . Very super high !! Reasonable tax will be lower than 10/5. That only time 30/30 is a reasonable tax if they fully fund every city every 10 days , fund for 1,000 land , and fund for all the building. Also fully fund for national project for every 2500 infra . If not quit that alliance ive end up quitting after I’ve see my revenue lol .. and I join Aargh because 0/0 tax You basically just admitted you don't know much about this game lol. 30/30 isn't that abnormal and most alliances probably do grant stuff with those taxes. No way they're going to give you a city every 10 days, they'd literally be losing money. 2 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, Keegoz said: You basically just admitted you don't know much about this game lol. 30/30 isn't that abnormal and most alliances probably do grant stuff with those taxes. No way they're going to give you a city every 10 days, they'd literally be losing money. Back off my boy CP here, he is up to 2 cities, and knows a thing or two around here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.