Getting spied while in Biege

[Prefontaine]

Currently spy attacks sent or received aren't impacted by beige. Should they be?

[Yasei]

doing one or two spy operations limit and 3 attacks limit are already enough imo

[LukeTP]

Nations at war should always be able to spy attack each other (regardless of beige). At all other times intel ops only would be fair in my opinion.

I voted as close as I can but there isn't a pair of options that matches that exactly.

[WarriorSoul]

Given the war system and the espionage system are separate entities, I see no reason to make one dependent on the other.

Edited March 15, 2022 by WarriorSoul

[Jacob Knox]

I can concede to more protections for nations in beige given the entire purpose of beige, but I think nations in beige should be allowed to perform espionage operations and be victim to espionage operations. As is, someone can only have three ops against them per day and each op, frankly, doesn't do much damage (usually). Now, I might not be opposed to restricting assassinate spy ops when a nation is in beige given that up to 3 assassinate spy ops per day can be devastational and, as you've said, beige is meant to be a period in which a nation can rebuild/recoup their losses some. My reasoning for this position is that this, combined with all of the other suggested or polled beige buffs, would make people in beige borderline invulnerable and I think it would be best if they were still left with some form of vulnerability.

36 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

Given the war system and the espionage system are separate entities, I see no reason to make on dependent on the other.

I'm curious to hear what you mean by "separate entities." Because while a nation can be spied on and spy on others independent of whether or not they have ongoing wars, the war system and espionage system are intimately entwined when it comes to warfare at large.

[Benfro]

24 minutes ago, Jacob Knox said:

 

I'm curious to hear what you mean by "separate entities." Because while a nation can be spied on and spy on others independent of whether or not they have ongoing wars, the war system and espionage system are intimately entwined when it comes to warfare at large.

Correlation does not equal causation or something like that.

 

Although the act of spying is considered an act of war, he means (correctly) that a nation does not need to be at war with a spy target. The espionage system does in fact operate completely independently of the traditional war system as far actual game mechanics. there’s no need to link a color to spy activity. 

[Alice Kryze]

Maybe just not spy assassinations while in beige. It’s already impossible to build up spies as is

[BSKsplick]

1 hour ago, Alice Kryze said:

Maybe just not spy assassinations while in beige. It’s already impossible to build up spies as is

Simply do not get your spies killed 

"Says me with 4 spies 😁" :serious"

[Jacob Knox]

20 hours ago, Benfro said:

Correlation does not equal causation or something like that.

 

Although the act of spying is considered an act of war, he means (correctly) that a nation does not need to be at war with a spy target. The espionage system does in fact operate completely independently of the traditional war system as far actual game mechanics. there’s no need to link a color to spy activity. 

While the mechanics themselves are independent, we must also consider the broader meta when debating changes such as these. With that in mind, the mechanics are generally used hand-in-hand the majority of the time, especially during global or alliance wars (raids and independent wars are, of course, different). And like I said, I personally oppose most of the espionage protections proposed with the exception of potentially limiting or disallowing spy assassinations in beige.

 

Also, that's not exactly the proper context to use the phrase "correlation does not imply causation," but I got what you meant.

[EViL0nE]

Espionage is an attack and it is antithesis to the entire concept of beige "a chance to rebuild after losing war[s]" - If your military units are can be destroyed while in beige. . . you're not providing the chance to rebuild. Spies are military units as well. 

1. A nation on beige should be able to gather intel from anyone, and should be able to perform all spy operations against nations they are currently at war with.

2. A nation on beige should be vulnerable to gather intel by anyone, and should be vulnerable to all spy operations from nations they are currently at war with.

[GrumpyOldMan]

3 hours ago, EViL0nE said:

Espionage is an attack and it is antithesis to the entire concept of beige "a chance to rebuild after losing war[s]" - If your military units are can be destroyed while in beige. . . you're not providing the chance to rebuild. Spies are military units as well. 

1. A nation on beige should be able to gather intel from anyone, and should be able to perform all spy operations against nations they are currently at war with.

2. A nation on beige should be vulnerable to gather intel by anyone, and should be vulnerable to all spy operations from nations they are currently at war with.

Yes, the choices in this poll are poorly phrased. Nations in Beige are allowed to attack (and continue to be attacked) by Nations they are currently at war with. That isn't one of the choices offered.

Perhaps a good compromise is to badly nerf the odds/damage potential of spai ops for Nations that you are not in a declared war with? As it currently stands, you can recruit a maximum of 3 spies per day. But it's very easy to have 20 to 30 assassinated per day at 3 ops/target. Makes it impossible to rebuild.

I've done this to opponents in multi-round "Big Wars". And I know it utterly angers them. I've also been on the receiving end. The "Assassinate Spies" feature is badly out of whack.