Popular Post BigMorf Posted March 15, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 15, 2022 36 minutes ago, Vexz said: To your last point here, I do agree that if people spend time to just carelessly grow in size, then we end up moving closer to bipolarity, but our move isn't to get all the alliances possible. I get what you're saying in that last paragraph, but I think Pre put it best in one of his posts above. I'm not sure what exact clarification you're soothing for outside of the fact that there were concerns in regards to Clock. Are we just gonna ignore TKR exists as a main driver as well or are you trying to say t$ and Rose are some of them, either way I've also heard people complain that alliances like Rose or T$ keep others from going out and doing their thing, as they'd end up just being followers to us and nothing more. This move ended up with us having to lose some ties to ensure we didn't end up making a huge sphere, and also changed the political dynamic of the usual Rose v t$ that has been consisted in this game for quite sometime. If you wish to claim the bipolarity issue lies on the political power that's fine, but the simple fact that after t$ and Rose allied up we wound up with the claims of a possible return to bipolarity is more than just political power seeing HW finds itself on the other end of that conversation. Still crazy to think that two main drivers for the game allying with one another is at best on the same level of HW that has been around for much longer. Funny to mention Rose wishing to ally TI has the same level of HW wishing to ally TI. Rosesphere at the time lacked mid tier and therefore that TI tie was viable, but we also lacked high tier something that HW did not. To sit here and say well Rose wanted to ally TI so it would be just as bad is hilarious when considering that Rosesphere was not the same size as HW, but smaller. I acknowledge that HW may have not had the best mid tier compared to others but did have advantages elsewhere, so while you can claim HW lacked mid tier compared to Clock and BW, HW had and still has the most dominant upper tier in the game, and upper tier dominance has a domino effect in the rest of the war. It is far harder to drag down a single c40+ nation than it is to bring down multiple mid-tier nations, so yeah us signing TI would have bolstered our mid-tier but we still would have been lacking the most critical tier in the game. MHC was an attempt at revitalizing our sphere morale after a recent loss and the overwhelming tiering advantage of other spheres. However, once again, we still lacked in the most critical tier. Due to the merger that resulted in Serpentis, there was conflict within our sphere that ended up in the loss of VooDoo, an important alliance for our sphere viability. Furthermore, the loss of VooDoo was also a hit to morale, and at that point, a fresh start was not so farfetched. Here are some sheets for visuals: On your first point, re the concern about Clock block. If you are referring to the set of conversations had with Harry and then Luci and Harry... That concern was about Clock's aggressive nature. They had hit Oasis with Blackwater after the entire militarization of Cata and HoF, and our (right) expectation was that after hitting Oasis/Mysinc was that Cata was going to chain and hit either Hollywood or Rose sphere. We were rightfully concerned about that, but wasn't sure on whom was getting hit. You all lost that lottery unfortunately, but we thought we'd be eating that blitz up until it happened. There were grounds for concern. I have never once suggested that TKR is not one of the main drivers of politics. We know we are, and we acknowledge and embrace that role. We consider ourselves as one of the three principle drivers (TKR, t$, and Rose). Cataclysm/Eclipse as a duo is rapidly becoming a fourth driver. But this new block placed two of those principle drivers into the same sphere. No one in this newest sphere has a history of being a political driver, though I do agree with the sentiment that they now have a chance to spread their wings. It's my hope that they do become a political driver. Hollywood knows it's a political force, and that's why we consciously make the choices that we often do. Outside of the acquisition of Immortals, it is the only alliance we've brought into the sphere that wasn't a protectorate since our inception as a sphere. We've turned down multiple offers from quality alliances to join our sphere because we've been conscious of size concerns. We don't want to slide the game away from multipolarity. As for the points in this thread about Immortals. I think the context of the time is important to note. Oasis was imploding. You had just signed the Wei which you have conveniently neglected to leave off of your chart here. Clock had just signed IKEA which is also not on the charts. Oasis was dying and we had no idea where TPF, Immortals, UPN, Dark Brotherhood etc would land. Our noted deficit in the mid tier and lower tiers was getting worse, especially with you actively courting Immortals and us unsure of where other people were going to land. 2 6 Quote The Knights Radiant Ghostblood Babsk of Foreign Affairs Journey before Destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vexz Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 25 minutes ago, Adrienne said: Your new bloc existed for what? 2 months? And through zero wars? And you were so demoralized by one alliance leaving, you felt the need to start over? That's the best argument I've heard for why Rose couldn't be considered competitive. Congrats. Hi there hun, I did say that there was conflict within our sphere that ended up in the loss of VooDoo. It wasn't as simple as VooDoo leaving and us being so heartbroken that we needed to get over them by sleeping with t$ though lol. Bad tastes were left in various people's mouths after arguments, I'd imagine. You conveniently chose to simplify that from your high perch in the consolidated high tier. Congrats. True that the bloc was short-lived and didn't face external conflicts, but better to salvage something that wasn't working than to lead it to a painful death. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Vexz said: Hi there hun, I did say that there was conflict within our sphere that ended up in the loss of VooDoo. It wasn't as simple as VooDoo leaving and us being so heartbroken that we needed to get over them by sleeping with t$ though lol. Bad tastes were left in various people's mouths after arguments, I'd imagine. You conveniently chose to simplify that from your high perch in the consolidated high tier. Congrats. True that the bloc was short-lived and didn't face external conflicts, but better to salvage something that wasn't working than to lead it to a painful death. I expected better for a clap back, Vexz. Using that tired old narrative that wasn't even relevant to what we were talking about was uninspired. I did appreciate the sex joke about t$ though. I was rather sad to have realized I missed out on a rather spectacular one. Mile High Club... prematurely ending... I'll let you figure it out 😘 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Me Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 39 minutes ago, Vexz said: but better to salvage something that wasn't working than to lead it to a painful death. So Rose is disbanding then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pubstomper Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Who Me said: So Rose is disbanding then? not until I'm leader again 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 8 hours ago, Adrienne said: Your new bloc existed for what? 2 months? And through zero wars? And you were so demoralized by one alliance leaving, you felt the need to start over? That's the best argument I've heard for why Rose couldn't be considered competitive. Congrats. 7 hours ago, Adrienne said: I expected better for a clap back, Vexz. Using that tired old narrative that wasn't even relevant to what we were talking about was uninspired. I did appreciate the sex joke about t$ though. I was rather sad to have realized I missed out on a rather spectacular one. Mile High Club... prematurely ending... I'll let you figure it out 😘 Neither duration of existence of former bloc nor number of wars fought with it are metrics that have any bearing on the merits of our signing. It is not tkr's place to dictate the morality of said metrics. Your other stated points regarding TS and rose being principle drivers and our treaty therefore being immoral is frankly undone by your standing treaty with GG. I will advise my government to simply ignore it as what it is- a flimsy justification of your outrage over the existence of a similarly tiered grouping. The bloc is here. It's competitive. It's not dominant or game breaking. It breaks an old rivalry and shapes a new tie. Ive yet to hear a solid argument as to why it's a horrible thing that doesn't reek of cognitive dissonance. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelouch Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) Edit: Where are my manners. Congratulations on the new family. Best wishes, Lulu ViBri From a 4th party's perspective it seems: Hollywood ....is trying to compete to be the top political and military force in the game and... ....is threatened by Celestial and so are trying to tar and isolate the bloc straight from the jump as a threat to the game (to them) to justify future antagonism (explicit here on the forums or in backchannels) and deflect from their own strengths Celestial ...is trying to compete to be the top political and military force in the game and... ....felt inadequate in their former affiliations in comparison to the other predominate entities and is willing to make the practical moves to compensate while threading the needle for acceptable force consolidation. Willing to deal with (both meanings of the phrase) whoever they need to accomplish their goals. Clock Block ...is trying to compete to be the top political and military force in the game and... ...is also threatened by the formation of Celestial but is seeing the war of words between Hollywood and Celestial and are letting the two focus on each other while positioning to be a potential kingmaker. Thus in a real sense cultivating the most advantageous (long term) position of the three (at least initially) From this point of view, the agendas of each grouping are clear and this back and forth and song and dance is just theater. I'm not one to rob the stage of content, but please at least have the contributions actually be entertaining. Some of these posts are just bad. Michaan at least is coming through with some memes and the girls are catfighting. That's been about the best so far (oh and Vanek is had a good post too) Edited March 16, 2022 by Lelouch 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Lelouch said: Edit: Where are my manners. Congratulations on the new family. Best wishes, Lulu ViBri From a 4th party's perspective it seems: Hollywood ....is trying to compete to be the top political and military force in the game and... ....is threatened by Celestial and so are trying to tar and isolate the bloc straight from the jump as a threat to the game (to them) to justify future antagonism (explicit here on the forums or in backchannels) and deflect from their own strengths Celestial ...is trying to compete to be the top political and military force in the game and... ....felt inadequate in their former affiliations in comparison to the other predominate entities and is willing to make the practical moves to compensate while threading the needle for acceptable force consolidation. Willing to deal with (both meanings of the phrase) whoever they need to accomplish their goals. Clock Block ...is trying to compete to be the top political and military force in the game and... ...is also threatened by the formation of Celestial but is seeing the war of words between Hollywood and Celestial and are letting the two focus on each other while positioning to be a potential kingmaker. Thus in a real sense cultivating the most advantageous (long term) position of the three (at least initially) From this point of view, the agendas of each grouping are clear and this back and forth and song and dance is just theater. I'm not one to rob the stage of content, but please at least have the contributions actually be entertaining. Some of these posts are just bad. Michaan at least is coming through with some memes and the girls are catfighting. That's been about the best so far (oh and Vanek is had a good post too) I'm not a girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firwof Kromwell Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Adrienne said: I expected better for a clap back, Vexz. Using that tired old narrative that wasn't even relevant to what we were talking about was uninspired. I did appreciate the sex joke about t$ though. I was rather sad to have realized I missed out on a rather spectacular one. Mile High Club... prematurely ending... I'll let you figure it out 😘 Just like The Rolling Stones, Rose was to uneager to contentment after enduring such frustration. Then again, they must have a low drive due to what it takes to drop, switch, & sign I guess. More friends with benefits & one night stands than anyone else, even at a relatively cheap rate too! Edited March 16, 2022 by Firwof Kromwell Then again, it only took one bad week for Sydni to wanna do something anew. Both must been desperate thou, since they most likely never talked about each other's trust issues of different sorts. Quote I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Prefonteen said: Neither duration of existence of former bloc nor number of wars fought with it are metrics that have any bearing on the merits of our signing. It is not tkr's place to dictate the morality of said metrics. Your other stated points regarding TS and rose being principle drivers and our treaty therefore being immoral is frankly undone by your standing treaty with GG. I will advise my government to simply ignore it as what it is- a flimsy justification of your outrage over the existence of a similarly tiered grouping. The bloc is here. It's competitive. It's not dominant or game breaking. It breaks an old rivalry and shapes a new tie. Ive yet to hear a solid argument as to why it's a horrible thing that doesn't reek of cognitive dissonance. Never thought I'd see the day Parti responded to shitposts - ones not even directed at him - with seriousness. And you entirely missed the point too. Morality? No one said anything about morality. You're losing your touch, old man. You want serioustalk, go chat with Morf instead of bringing his points to my posts. I fulfilled my obligation in our embassy already. 😛 Edited March 16, 2022 by Adrienne 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Adrienne said: Never thought I'd see the day Parti responded to shitposts - ones not even directed at him - with seriousness. And you entirely missed the point too. Morality? No one said anything about morality. You're losing your touch, old man. You want serioustalk, go chat with Morf instead of bringing his points to my posts. I fulfilled my obligation in our embassy already. 😛 I hold you accountable for morf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Prefonteen said: I hold you accountable for morf I thought that was @Benfro 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJinx Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 3:12 PM, Darth Ataxia said: Stop, you're going to give our position away to the Johnsons HEY! We heard that! That's it, @Jacob Apple When we rolling them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJinx Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) On 3/13/2022 at 6:10 AM, Firwof Kromwell said: All you are doing alongside other Ro$e gov is making redirective understatements. Trying to spin a point with counter persuasive ideas that in turn prove people like Pascals point further rather than disprove nor work around it. For example, ya lot in Celestial too also keep mentioning war losses as well tiering. First off, HW's loss did happen a few months back, while the BW loss was within the past month while only taking part in dogpiles in there favor since NPOLT. Rose on the other hand has basically lost almost every war back to back since NPOLT as well doing similar aspects in dogpiling which ended up backfiring a couple times. On tiering, as much as yall deny, the main focus of tier growth was c20-40, c20-30 is where TKR & Guard mainly tiers to while Grumpy goes around to c30-40. Coincidence? There he is! There's my favorite firwof! Still as naive as ever, Huh old friend?(My not here supporting the move, Im just here to call out firwof ;)) Edited March 16, 2022 by JustJinx just making sure people know i dont support the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firwof Kromwell Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, JustJinx said: There he is! There's my favorite firwof! Still as naive as ever, Huh old friend?(My not here supporting the move, Im just here to call out firwof ;)) Similar goes for you as what I said above, took one major conflict of interest after which you flipped. Instead of working though, you just decided it was best to to disconnect furthermore lash out whenever possible. Thus in the end is more immature due to the unwilling inability to work through drama in a positively constructive direction, even if it hurts. Aside that, leave this outside of this thread, it's only derailing it so only focus on what's been at hand, not what hurts your Rainbow-washed mind. Edited March 17, 2022 by Firwof Kromwell Plus, you didn't call me out on anything as well explain why it's call out. It's more a poor attempt to bait, flame, & troll based off of what you feel while copping out with something that you feel justifies it which was mainly "Cuz he's Firwof".Git gud Quote I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firwof Kromwell Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 2:27 PM, Micchan said: Ayy yo,where can I find dat mega Twinkie?! Quote I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avakael Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I spent a week in Rose, it was basically just t$ with chess tournaments. This bloc makes perfect sense to me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepingNinja Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 8 hours ago, Adrienne said: I thought that was @Benfro if there's 1 thing I learned from our time playing Among us together.. when in doubt, blame Adri. ❤️😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 1:20 PM, Key said: Did this narrative stick or the ones the TKR/HW mother!@#$ers are throwing? Are they the same? What's the move @Key? On 3/16/2022 at 6:55 PM, Avakael said: I spent a week in Rose, it was basically just t$ with chess tournaments. This bloc makes perfect sense to me. Cut from the same cloth that you used to lead betch 😘 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Keynes Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) On 3/19/2022 at 1:55 AM, Eumirbago said: Did this narrative stick or the ones the TKR/HW mother!@#$ers are throwing? Are they the same? What's the move @Key? Cut from the same cloth that you used to lead betch 😘 The moves which caused 2 of the Top 3 alliances to be part of the same sphere. Thus, it reminded me much of Quack and the narrative pretty much stuck. Also, I said a long time ago in RON that minispheres would never work. That everyone would use them for their own advantage and have secret backroom deals. But no one listened. Everyone has gone back in circles. I respect the formation of Celestial and it's awesome to see two powerhouses work together again. However, foes will use this move as an excuse to push their own narratives. Edited March 21, 2022 by Key 1 Quote My opinion may not reflect those of my alliance or its affiliates. Please read at your own discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 21 minutes ago, Key said: The moves which caused 2 of the Top 3 alliances to be part of the same sphere. Thus, it reminded me much of Quack and the narrative pretty much stuck among Hollywood. Also, I said a long time ago in RON that minispheres would never work. That everyone would use them for their own advantage and have secret backroom deals. But no one listened. Everyone has gone back in circles. I respect the formation of Celestial and it's awesome to see two powerhouses work together again. However, foes will use this move as an excuse to push their own narratives. Did this stick or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avakael Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 5:25 PM, Eumirbago said: Cut from the same cloth that you used to lead betch 😘 I don't encourage comparing t$ to MI6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Key said: The moves which caused 2 of the Top 3 alliances to be part of the same sphere. Thus, it reminded me much of Quack and the narrative pretty much stuck among Hollywood. Also, I said a long time ago in RON that minispheres would never work. That everyone would use them for their own advantage and have secret backroom deals. But no one listened. Everyone has gone back in circles. I respect the formation of Celestial and it's awesome to see two powerhouses work together again. However, foes will use this move as an excuse to push their own narratives. Multi-spheres =/= multi-polarity. It's the fatal flaw which those inclined to support multi-spheres ignored despite the obvious flaws being readily visible the entire time. Celestial's formation is simply the inevitable consequence of causation and escalation. Edited March 20, 2022 by Charles Bolivar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John M Keynes Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 1:17 PM, Eumirbago said: Did this stick or no? Did you read my post? Quote My opinion may not reflect those of my alliance or its affiliates. Please read at your own discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 2:17 PM, Eumirbago said: Did this stick or no? Hey! its good to see you back on the forums. I thought you may have quit the game after that last war and I didn't see you posting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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