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[Sphere] Fate Lies in the Stars


Agent W
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10 hours ago, Pascal said:

Yes, yes. Because 2 spheres holding 65-70% of the c30s+ in the game is not bipolarity.

Tripolarity ? You're just trying to consolidate the upper tier to make yourself unkillable in that tier. As if Clock could stand any chance to beat Ro$e or HW at c30+ by being outnumbered over 2:1 by Ro$e or outtiered by HW, so spare me your moral grandstanding.

I see you as the kind of guy who tries to fight fire with fire.

Why are you bemoaning tS and not hw for being a catalyst in the first place?

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42 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Why are you bemoaning tS and not hw for being a catalyst in the first place?

But I thought this sphere had nothing to do with HW ? Oh wait ...

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48 minutes ago, Pascal said:

But I thought this sphere had nothing to do with HW ? Oh wait ...

How dreadfully simplistic.

 

Politics never occurs in a vacuum. Do you not factor other spheres' power into the viability of your current or prospective position? That does not equal "OMG ITS ALL ABOUT XYZ" 

(although tbf. Where WANA has to make a calculation a variety of factors and take a more balanced stance, my retirement permits me the liberty to tell you that HW as an entity is incredibly restrictive to the political meta due to the sheer unassailability of its tiering by any one single grouping).

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1 minute ago, Prefonteen said:

HW as an entity is incredibly restrictive to the political meta due to the sheer unassailability of its tiering by any one single grouping

And now you have done exactly the same to an even greater extent.

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5 hours ago, Indger said:

Leaders from your blocs have been saying abt letting bygones be bygones and I don't understand why you all bring HW in it then, is HW the real reason of this bloc formation? So you all just want HW to downsize?

Hi Indger, how nice of you to pop in. Let's get one thing straight shall we (like I said before) - MHC and BW could not win a 1v1 against either CB or HW. This was clearly demonstrated in the recent globals. This is because of the rather large high tier that both CB and HW command.

It has also gone unchecked to quite a large degree the upsizing that CB and HW have done in recent months. The addition of TI to HW and VooDoo to Clock both pushed up further the competitive high tiers. The ability of MHC and BW to properly contest these areas was diminishing. So, I'll put it simply. You made those FA decisions, now live with the consequences of your actions.

I'm sorry we have created a competitive sphere - but you forced our hand with the ever-expanding scores and tiers of your own. If HW had made it clear that they were willing to break the monopoly at the top of the tiering chart, or Clock not quietly added VooDoo, then sure things may have been different. But they're not and thus Celestial has happened.

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5 hours ago, Leftbehind said:

In what world do you live in that BW was not competitive with Clock or HW? Just because you guys gave up in the first round of the HW war doesn't mean you couldn't put up a fight. It just means you are lazy and blinded by the argument of Upper Tier Consolidation that you guys have preached about for so long. 

This whole narrative you are trying to spin is more telling about your inabilities to think outside the box than the reality you lived in. Sitting here trying to justify the creation a dominate 30+ bloc because of HW signing TI or Clock having BS is laughable. 

That "outside of the box" move hinged on taking advantage of the weakness that we (and others) identified, that being t$/Rose being relatively unsupported due to there not being any other relatively comparable alliance in the sphere in terms of "who do we kill first?". They were easy to focus down and once taken down, the rest of the sphere followed. This happened in both conflicts, so the argument of a poor BW/t$ war performance simply can not be the sole reason for this shared outcome across different conflicts. I also don't think that this is a weakness found in the other spheres. It's certainly to your credit that you leveraged it in the way you did. It would've been foolish for us not to work on finding a way to address it.

And we did so in a way that, in spite of the lines being pushed, doesn't lead to this Quack 2.0 hegemony thing that I've seen some people talk about. Such would have been to do a straight merger of the two spheres with no cuts elsewhere. You can say that this a strong contingent. The sheets point to that. Those sheets likewise also do not point at dominance or hegemony by our sphere. No matter the spin you try to give it.

Edited by Shiho Nishizumi
Minor grammatical correction.
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1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

How dreadfully simplistic.

 

Politics never occurs in a vacuum. Do you not factor other spheres' power into the viability of your current or prospective position? That does not equal "OMG ITS ALL ABOUT XYZ" 

(although tbf. Where WANA has to make a calculation a variety of factors and take a more balanced stance, my retirement permits me the liberty to tell you that HW as an entity is incredibly restrictive to the political meta due to the sheer unassailability of its tiering by any one single grouping).

All you are doing alongside other Ro$e gov is making redirective understatements. Trying to spin a point with counter persuasive ideas that in turn prove people like Pascals point further rather than disprove nor work around it.
 

For example, ya lot in Celestial too also keep mentioning war losses as well tiering. First off, HW's loss did happen a few months back, while the BW loss was within the past month while only taking part in dogpiles in there favor since NPOLT. Rose on the other hand has basically lost almost every war back to back since NPOLT as well doing similar aspects in dogpiling which ended up backfiring a couple times. On tiering, as much as yall deny, the main focus of tier growth was c20-40, c20-30 is where TKR & Guard mainly tiers to while Grumpy goes around to c30-40. Coincidence? 

Edited by Firwof Kromwell
adding examples

 

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 I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind

Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger         

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15 minutes ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

All you are doing alongside other Ro$e gov is making redirective understatements. Trying to spin a point with counter persuasive ideas that in turn prove people like Pascals point further rather than disprove nor work around it.

I'm not Ro$e gov.

 

Be that as it may: I fully understand Clock's frustration at the developed situation. They are now in the spot t$ and Ro$e felt themselves in until recently. I don't see how that is morally reprehensible on our part however. Particularly with the efforts WANA and whoever runs rose these days made to keep the sphere lean (with success). Can you uhh... explain to me what the exact problem is, while also accounting for the political context  this move was made in (read: HW's top tier dominance over all at the moment, and Clock's ranking above  rose and t$ individually pre-move)?

 

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2 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

I'm not Ro$e gov.

 

Be that as it may: I fully understand Clock's frustration at the developed situation. They are now in the spot t$ and Ro$e felt themselves in until recently. I don't see how that is morally reprehensible on our part however. Particularly with the efforts WANA and whoever runs rose these days made to keep the sphere lean (with success). Can you uhh... explain to me what the exact problem is, while also accounting for the political context  this move was made in (read: HW's top tier dominance over all at the moment, and Clock's ranking above  rose and t$ individually pre-move)?

edited above

 

                            memed-iFirwof650x150.jpeg.9a92ea222b9010f9fae97a1864a6759e.jpeg     

 I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind

Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger         

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14 hours ago, Agent W said:

Nice theme for your post 😀

In the context of recent history, you lot throwing your teddy and refusing to play in the last global (which was pretty evenly matched), followed by this move suggests our future holds little else other than another war hahaha

Maybe I’m wrong though, my strengths lie not in creative thinking and politics, but rather in vaguely antagonistic, single minded OWF contributions.

Where do we go from here friend??  Will you commit to a premonition??

Celer Et Audax

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22 minutes ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

All you are doing alongside other Ro$e gov is making redirective understatements. Trying to spin a point with counter persuasive ideas that in turn prove people like Pascals point further rather than disprove nor work around it.
 

For example, ya lot in Celestial too also keep mentioning war losses as well tiering. First off, HW's loss did happen a few months back, while the BW loss was within the past month while only taking part in dogpiles in there favor since NPOLT. Rose on the other hand has basically lost almost every war back to back since NPOLT as well doing similar aspects in dogpiling which ended up backfiring a couple times. On tiering, as much as yall deny, the main focus of tier growth was c20-40, c20-30 is where TKR & Guard mainly tiers to while Grumpy goes around to c30-40. Coincidence? 

(grabbing this quote for the edit):

Ignoring bolded since its a historically inaccurate, loaded statement. 

Was HW's loss caused by a single entity, or by multiple entities working together?

When I ran quack, one of the charges levied against us was that we couldn't be challenged by any single sphere, supposedly. Therefore, we were dogpiled. Why does the same logic not apply to HW?

Even with Ro$e combining as we are, it remains a tight race with grumpy (due to the top tier downdeclares). I'm looking for an argument that sticks to Ro$e but not to HW (which has been around much longer and has upsized recently). Where is the moral outrage stemming from?

Just now, Etat said:

Nice theme for your post 😀

In the context of recent history, you lot throwing your teddy and refusing to play in the last global (which was pretty evenly matched), followed by this move suggests our future holds little else other than another war hahaha

Maybe I’m wrong though, my strengths lie not in creative thinking and politics, but rather in vaguely antagonistic, single minded OWF contributions.

Where do we go from here friend??  Will you commit to a premonition??

I'm certain Wana will answer you, for I do not have the policy-making position. All I can say is that i'm disappointed in TKR for the HW move, and I hope that in time dialogue can exist for the dismantlement of upper tier consolidation and the reactionary bloc-consolidation that has occurred in its wake on a meta level.

I remarked in RON earlier that a return to a political state where alliances are central, rather than blocs, would do us all well. Perhaps one day, an old snake can dream.

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30 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Was HW's loss caused by a single entity, or by multiple entities working together?

When I ran quack, one of the charges levied against us was that we couldn't be challenged by any single sphere, supposedly. Therefore, we were dogpiled. Why does the same logic not apply to HW?

Even with Ro$e combining as we are, it remains a tight race with grumpy (due to the top tier downdeclares). I'm looking for an argument that sticks to Ro$e but not to HW (which has been around much longer and has upsized recently). Where is the moral outrage stemming from?

That loss infact was multiple entities, which included BW & Rose-sphere funny enough.

https://politicsandwar.fandom.com/wiki/Brawlywood

Another funny thing is Holly has majorly downsized since then & there only major addition to stay to date is Immortals. The big difference comes to +1 Top evenly tiered aa=/= Several Top upper tiered aa's

>Where is the moral outrage stemming from?

  > remains a tight race with grumpy (due to the top tier downdeclares)

You answered yourself

Edited by Firwof Kromwell
ree

 

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 I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind

Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger         

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1 minute ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

That loss infact was multiple entities, which included BW & Rose-sphere funny enough.

https://politicsandwar.fandom.com/wiki/Brawlywood

Another funny thing is Holly has majorly downsized since then & there only major addition to stay to date is Immortals. The big difference comes to +1 Top evenly tiered aa=/= Several Top upper tiered aa's

That is my point: It required BW + Rosesphere to challenge HW. By virtue of the logic you levied against quack, that's an issue..

 

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27 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

That is my point: It required BW + Rosesphere to challenge HW. By virtue of the logic you levied against quack, that's an issue..

Kakashi Hatake Bored GIF - Kakashi Hatake Bored Naruto GIFs

Guess we shouldn't have said anything cuz ya continue to answer yourselves in the questions & statements made to others rather waiting for those excepted to respond.

 

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 I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind

Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger         

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41 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

...

I'm certain Wana will answer you, for I do not have the policy-making position. All I can say is that i'm disappointed in TKR for the HW move, and I hope that in time dialogue can exist for the dismantlement of upper tier consolidation and the reactionary bloc-consolidation that has occurred in its wake on a meta level.

I remarked in RON earlier that a return to a political state where alliances are central, rather than blocs, would do us all well. Perhaps one day, an old snake can dream.

Please might you explain what HW move you are disappointed with? :)  Is it simply that Grumpy are a member?  Basically any sphere Grumpy signs up to will attract the 'upper tier consolidation' argument, and I do not think there is anything that can, or should done about it.

Anyway IMO the tiering presently is neither here nor there, though we've lost the upper hand in the most versatile and powerful tier(s), it doesn't appear excessively problematic given the number of variables that may influence their relative power in war.  As for the 40+ tier, I'll maintain it is a pointless thing to get excited about militarily.  If we scrap again it'll be an interesting one because we won't de-mil and bail out.

If we have a larger number of active nations than say a couple of years ago, I think the development of blocs would be a natural evolution.  Hypothetically I also like the idea of a return to the precedence of alliances (not a thing I've seen), kind of like the multi-polar micro-sphere thing.  I think though this amounts to swimming against the tide of human nature.

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Celer Et Audax

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2 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

I'm not Ro$e gov.

 

Be that as it may: I fully understand Clock's frustration at the developed situation. They are now in the spot t$ and Ro$e felt themselves in until recently. I don't see how that is morally reprehensible on our part however. Particularly with the efforts WANA and whoever runs rose these days made to keep the sphere lean (with success). Can you uhh... explain to me what the exact problem is, while also accounting for the political context  this move was made in (read: HW's top tier dominance over all at the moment, and Clock's ranking above  rose and t$ individually pre-move)?

To be fair, this is another narrative I’ve been seeing, that I sort of chuckle at. Clock isn’t upset at all, nor are we frustrated. Not directed at you, Pre, but giving criticism, former examples, other ideas, isn’t some form of toxicity, at all.

It’s just as simple as we had four major blocs, and losing one of them, any of them, isn’t what I personally think anyone wanted. Yeah, sure, “GG/TKR/TI”, but, I’d rebuttal with “Do two wrongs make a right?” Obviously not, and I’d be as humble to say that no one has to follow the logic and narrative that others hold to heart.

Good luck, Celestial, hopefully the alliances you’ve recently signed and cut, hold the same value in these moves that you do. And hopefully the issues that Shiho addressed (nice reply, if I’m honest) are somehow addressed with this route (adding more numbers), instead of working on the things that actually improve fighting.

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4 hours ago, Big Mac said:

Hi Indger, how nice of you to pop in. Let's get one thing straight shall we (like I said before) - MHC and BW could not win a 1v1 against either CB or HW. This was clearly demonstrated in the recent globals. This is because of the rather large high tier that both CB and HW command.

It has also gone unchecked to quite a large degree the upsizing that CB and HW have done in recent months. The addition of TI to HW and VooDoo to Clock both pushed up further the competitive high tiers. The ability of MHC and BW to properly contest these areas was diminishing. So, I'll put it simply. You made those FA decisions, now live with the consequences of your actions.

I'm sorry we have created a competitive sphere - but you forced our hand with the ever-expanding scores and tiers of your own. If HW had made it clear that they were willing to break the monopoly at the top of the tiering chart, or Clock not quietly added VooDoo, then sure things may have been different. But they're not and thus Celestial has happened.

Idk what problem you have with me coming in, but thanks for calling me nice, i indeed am. Let me get straight to the point too. 

MHC didn't exist during that war, it was rosesphere, afterwards you also got TcW and Wei which got you a good tiering. It was the fairest 1v1 war we had recently. Because of the blitz advantage, clock won, if it would have been otherwise, rose would have won too. For BW, BW had also been adding peripheral alliances. There were many changes in blocs and therefore each bloc upsized by a bit and not over expanding And for HW, we had a weak mid tier, TI was added to have some decent presence in the mid tier.  And for BW losing the previous war was which i do think they could have given a fair fight if t$ wouldn't have demilled on the second day and they didn't take any action even even they had a short notice of the blitz. Probably you should read @hidude45454's text in DNN in his show channel. That explains how BW could have fought back and that too very well.

As for the formation of Ro$e, i am only against the double standards. One is saying it isn't a anti-HW move or a anti-GG thing or is not related to HW   and from someone else i am getting that it is to put a check on HW and it's existence. I like that at least if in future we are in a war, we can have a fair 1v1 fight eventhough the scales are very slightly tipped towards your advantage, so idrc abt your tiering or the treaty or if you are trying to be competitive unless it is for fighting HW because another leader is saying that they want to improve relationships and let bygones be bygones. (That's why i didn't even quote WANA when he put his stance).

But to me it does seem that the target of this treaty is us, that's why i am against it.

 

Edited by Indger

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3 hours ago, Vice said:

Honestly don’t worry too much about this guys. One won’t buy mil and the other will sell it after 26 hours. Also I don’t recommend using ASMs super duper “shield wall” strategy by declaring average of .5 offensive wars over 14 days. So maybe let dead rabbits run your Milcom and you will be alright.

I wish you all the best of luck! 

 

wow ur still upset people didn't listen to you 😢

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36 minutes ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

but as we saw in the most recent war, there was a large gap in strength between Blackwater and Hollywood

How can you even make this assessment when BW just gave up a couple days into the fighting? If anything, it represents a gap in fortitude, not a gap in strength.

39 minutes ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

Like I understand the response and belief of every sphere that this move is directly because of them and this is a sign that Rose and T$ are going to attack them because everyone knows Rose and T$ have been such aggressive and hostile alliances in the past, but that's just not the case. We can address this as reasonable people with logic, but you saying this means T$ wants to attack Grumpy and Guardian and force them to split up because T$ and Rose and our allies joined to remain competitive is just an argument in bad faith, and I honestly expected better from you.

Except this isn't an argument in bad faith. Like six months ago Rose and t$ got together for the express purpose of rolling HW. Obviously in games like these, narratives shift and relationships change quickly, but it's not like we're talking about ancient history, we're talking about something these alliances just did. Waving this off as a bad faith argument because "no trust us, Wana said he doesn't care about G/G anymore despite the historical stance of t$ over the last X number of years!" seems awfully naive to me.

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1 hour ago, Arawra said:

wow ur still upset people didn't listen to you 😢

sounds like you are projecting being upset cuz...IT DIDNT FVCKIN WORK AS INTENDTED!!!  Along with the other war tactics both Rose-Sphere & BW did since NPOLT cuz it usually ended up backfiring even into another conflict later on mostly due to the Dogpile tactic & those opponents wanted a more fair fight.

 

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 I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind

Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger         

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