An Appeal to The Syndicate

[Director Nyus]

2 hours ago, Hodor said:

Thanks for the write up WANA, I think this touches on some interesting points. I think for one, in the post NPO era there's been a conscious effort to reduce the toxicity and excess in IC RP. This has been more or less adapted by all alliances, but something critical happened to t$ that didn't allow for it to make the shift as well. I wonder if the tension and borderline animosity surrounding people labeling t$ a hegemony in the period after NPOLT isolated you all and has been informing your mindset since. At that time, I was taken aback at how vociferous t$ was, but maybe this is chalked up to your isolation? or people like me misread it because we still had a bad taste in our mouths from your actions and silence in the first half of NPOLT?

Regardless, the more I think about it, the more I think I've always taken an issue with the way t$ is playing the politics of outrage right now, but it was the norm in the game for so long that it would have been useless to rage against it. Now, t$ alone is still playing that old game and it's much more stark of a contrast to the game the rest of the world is playing. It's always my belief that IC outrage shouldn't be able to be confused with OOC outrage and that a healthy separation should exist between the two and in this style of play the line is very thin.

Speaking purely for the timeframe I was gov for t$, a lot of it stemmed from the immediate hegemon claims by certain parties and lead us to feel like we *had* to be defensive.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Emperor Adam
Mobile forums suck

[Shiho Nishizumi]

3 hours ago, Hodor said:

Thanks for the write up WANA, I think this touches on some interesting points. I think for one, in the post NPO era there's been a conscious effort to reduce the toxicity and excess in IC RP. This has been more or less adapted by all alliances, but something critical happened to t$ that didn't allow for it to make the shift as well. I wonder if the tension and borderline animosity surrounding people labeling t$ a hegemony in the period after NPOLT isolated you all and has been informing your mindset since. At that time, I was taken aback at how vociferous t$ was, but maybe this is chalked up to your isolation? or people like me misread it because we still had a bad taste in our mouths from your actions and silence in the first half of NPOLT?

I echo Partisan's comments regarding the roots of said alienation. You're also right in that there's been a shift on how public FA operates that's very distinct from pre NPOLT times. One thing that I'd add as for the discrepancy between the way t$ conducts public FA and that of other alliances also likely comes down to the people that have been in charge thereof since the end of NPOLT. I don't think I need to elaborate on Partisan's style. Adam opted on emulating it. W's style is unlike that of Partisan's, but he's nonetheless still a player cut out from a much older piece of cloth than most other FA's currently in the game, and I suspect, and would expect, there is an increasing amount of this new generation of FA who are unfamiliar with this older approach to things, and misunderstandings ensue. That the divergence has, in my opinion, only increased as time has passed also points towards this I think.

Elaborating on this trend of reducing toxicity and RP'ing; obviously reducing toxicity is good. But I have to ask if perhaps people haven't oversteered on the inclination to reduce IC RP. The way I see it, it's not so much that it's been reduced, but is really a tad bit absent. Discord discussions and Radio shows have certainly steadily taken a bigger share of the pie, but I think that OWF-based stuff still has a place (in no small part because it's much easier to follow discussions pertaining to specific topics on a forum format as opposed to the high fluidity and ephemerality of Discord. And Radio Shows have issues with availability) which can genuinely enhance the experience pertaining to political affairs, which, at the end of the day, are still half the aspect of this game.



 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Shiho Nishizumi
Better readability.

[Adrienne]

17 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

I think that OWF-based stuff still has a place (in no small part because it's much easier to follow discussions pertaining to specific topics on a forum format as opposed to the high fluidity and ephemerality of Discord

10000000% agreed on this.

[Director Nyus]

I 100% think a meta move back to forums being primary would help a lot overall. More content that can actually be reasonably kept up with for one, and for two it helps a lot with flooding and swarming, making it easier to actually have conversations. Discord and radio have their perks for sure, but forums shouldn't be neglected.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Maleficent
Not sure why the white space is there, mobile forums are trash. Waiting for a mod to fox as it won't let me

[Cooper_]

1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

- Discord diplomacy vs forum discourse

- Coalitions of convenience vs treaty warfare (or bloc warfare)

- The "Fight for fun" mentality vs political pragmatism

- An OOC-centric view vs an IC-centric view

Just want to point out that I think ideological disagreements are good and healthy for the game because we should be having discourse from multiple viewpoints.  One of the things I've always appreciated about T$, whether you agree or disagree, is that y'all are willing to take a stance and stick with it for the long-haul.  That isn't something I personally want to see the lost because more principled actors in the game means more interesting and diverse politics (*coughs in Rose's direction*).  

The other question, and the one I feel is more at stake here, is how you go about doing it, and it feels like especially after you left Partisan that things have gotten nastier and exhausting to deal with it.  Adam nailed the point that you splitting the middle expertly, between pushing your points but also stopping before you got too inflammatory.  Issue is that basically nobody is going to be as good at being you as you.

And as I said in a previous post, I don't think it's just y'all but also the environment you're in.  It's one thing to have eumir be eumir on the forums and then have you making tounge-in-cheek "friend" comments.  It's another to have a half-dozen syndi gov and ex-gov relentlessly attacking you in the RON public chat.  I don't need to be called an idiot 20 times before I can finish typing a sentence to know that y'all have valid disagreements with me.  Having been both your ally and enemy, I can say it sucks on either end.  

Obviously, this isn't everything at issue here, but I'm trying to leave the comments on current politics to the active politicians.  

[Adrienne]

8 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

I 100% think a meta move back to forums being primary would help a lot overall. More content that can actually be reasonably kept up with for one, and for two it helps a lot with flooding and swarming, making it easier to actually have conversations. Discord and radio have their perks for sure, but forums shouldn't be neglected.

Glad to see you have been converted

[Prefonteen]

7 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

Just want to point out that I think ideological disagreements are good and healthy for the game because we should be having discourse from multiple viewpoints.  One of the things I've always appreciated about T$, whether you agree or disagree, is that y'all are willing to take a stance and stick with it for the long-haul.  That isn't something I personally want to see the lost because more principled actors in the game means more interesting and diverse politics (*coughs in Rose's direction*).  

The other question, and the one I feel is more at stake here, is how you go about doing it, and it feels like especially after you left Partisan that things have gotten nastier and exhausting to deal with it.  Adam nailed the point that you splitting the middle expertly, between pushing your points but also stopping before you got too inflammatory.  Issue is that basically nobody is going to be as good at being you as you.

And as I said in a previous post, I don't think it's just y'all but also the environment you're in.  It's one thing to have eumir be eumir on the forums and then have you making tounge-in-cheek "friend" comments.  It's another to have a half-dozen syndi gov and ex-gov relentlessly attacking you in the RON public chat.  I don't need to be called an idiot 20 times before I can finish typing a sentence to know that y'all have valid disagreements with me.  Having been both your ally and enemy, I can say it sucks on either end.  

Obviously, this isn't everything at issue here, but I'm trying to leave the comments on current politics to the active politicians.  

Aye. I think one of the key takeaways of the critiques t$ receives here is for us to reflect on our playstyle in a way that maintains the ideological (core) facets  of t$ that add flavour to the game, while also considering behaviorisms that may have escalated for the worse. I haven't been fully read up on recent memory, but would it be a safe assumption that if on a gov-level, we decouple gripes surrounding our communication style from gripes surrounding our political style,we'd be casting a big enough net to address the most pressing criticisms levied at t$?

Sidenote- I speak for Partisan and not t$, although t$ gov naturally reads this thread.

[Hodor]

26 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Aye. I think one of the key takeaways of the critiques t$ receives here is for us to reflect on our playstyle in a way that maintains the ideological (core) facets  of t$ that add flavour to the game, while also considering behaviorisms that may have escalated for the worse. I haven't been fully read up on recent memory, but would it be a safe assumption that if on a gov-level, we decouple gripes surrounding our communication style from gripes surrounding our political style,we'd be casting a big enough net to address the most pressing criticisms levied at t$?

Up vote, but it bears further reiterating: this is exactly the takeaway I'd say is the important part and you've summarized, at least my grievance, perfectly.

[Mayor]

6 hours ago, Big Brother said:

Our way of doing politics or doing FA is just more interesting. Taking that away would make the game far more dull, flavorless and uninteresting. If all alliances in the game did politics the same way, trying to be honorable and so on, things would just get boring. We need good guys and bad guys and I think we're far more suited for the role of the bad guy, as I mentioned before. This is my personal point of view and while some in t$ may share it or parts of it, there are clearly plenty of other t$ members who take a more conciliatory tone, as evidenced by this thread. Taking a hard stance against what you might call foreign interference doesn't mean I can't be reasonable. If you find my stance to be morally bad, that I might agree with. However, it's not "bad logic" if your goal is what I outlined above.

Yes very interesting to see tS CBs which boil down to members ghosting for raids in KT, attacking Oasis (of all alliances) to being a threat to BW and tS. Literally the worst bloc in the game a threat to tS? What a sad joke. Your threads and allies threads have been a barren wasteland as well, this thread by HC is only thing seemingly to get tS to wake up and actually do something for once. So forgive me for not believing that tS brings anything to the table when it comes to interesting and fun gameplay regardless of being "honorable". Syndicate are not good guys or bad guys, your boring guys.

 

6 hours ago, Big Brother said:

I think this is an important point to make in terms of explaining how our mentality was forged. I remember time and time again having to fight spheres that were larger and more powerful than we were, every time thinking we were going to get hammered. And then, miraculously, we won and kept winning. The feeling at the time from what I recall was one of resignation to anticipated defeat rather than any kind of frustration or annoyance about being "dogpiled". We figured we were going to lose anyway so we might as well give it all we had. So we did, and it turned out to be enough. This is one of the reasons I feel very little sympathy when people say they're getting dogpiled. The other reason is, like Ataxia mentioned in his post, that dogpiles are sometimes necessary in order to win or in order to accomplish the goals of the war. These things are more important than any sense of justice or fairness and I don't think it's unreasonable for us to do what is most beneficial to our alliance.

Yes yes, we all know tS prominent early activity and early wars. Many times tS won outnumbered and facing the powers of the game. What happened to that Syndicate? Because all I see is an alliance that whines every global they lose about it being a dogpile, and an alliance that dogpiles every chance they can to win against anybody else. Oasis? threat to tS gotta dogpile. Rose, we can take those guys on with another entire sphere. Oh do we not have enough allies to fight HW? Better decom all military and give up. Like Jesus. If your mentality was forged in greatness before by now that has withered and left an empty husk and that is the current Syndicate.

[Adrienne]

4 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

Aye. I think one of the key takeaways of the critiques t$ receives here is for us to reflect on our playstyle in a way that maintains the ideological (core) facets  of t$ that add flavour to the game, while also considering behaviorisms that may have escalated for the worse. I haven't been fully read up on recent memory, but would it be a safe assumption that if on a gov-level, we decouple gripes surrounding our communication style from gripes surrounding our political style,we'd be casting a big enough net to address the most pressing criticisms levied at t$?

Sidenote- I speak for Partisan and not t$, although t$ gov naturally reads this thread.

 

4 hours ago, Hodor said:

Up vote, but it bears further reiterating: this is exactly the takeaway I'd say is the important part and you've summarized, at least my grievance, perfectly.

 

Seconded. This thread has certainly been a wild ride and an interesting read, to say the least. Thanks for putting up with us, Syndi, and I'm sorry for some of the bs you've had to put up with on your way to being able to have a more productive discussion. It was nice chatting with y'all this morning on your discord as well.

[Buorhann]

It's been interesting to see who's BSing civilly and who isn't in this thread.

[Prefonteen]

12 hours ago, Mayor said:

Yes very interesting to see tS CBs which boil down to members ghosting for raids in KT, attacking Oasis (of all alliances) to being a threat to BW and tS. Literally the worst bloc in the game a threat to tS? What a sad joke. Your threads and allies threads have been a barren wasteland as well, this thread by HC is only thing seemingly to get tS to wake up and actually do something for once. So forgive me for not believing that tS brings anything to the table when it comes to interesting and fun gameplay regardless of being "honorable". Syndicate are not good guys or bad guys, your boring guys.

 

 

12 hours ago, Mayor said:

Yes yes, we all know tS prominent early activity and early wars. Many times tS won outnumbered and facing the powers of the game. What happened to that Syndicate? Because all I see is an alliance that whines every global they lose about it being a dogpile, and an alliance that dogpiles every chance they can to win against anybody else. Oasis? threat to tS gotta dogpile. Rose, we can take those guys on with another entire sphere. Oh do we not have enough allies to fight HW? Better decom all military and give up. Like Jesus. If your mentality was forged in greatness before by now that has withered and left an empty husk and that is the current Syndicate.

 

 

Hi Mayor,

It's unfortunate that you pick BigBro's (half)trollpost to repeat a few cookie-cutter grievances which frankly could well apply to 90% of alliances in the game across multiple eras. What you've just described is the long-proven standard of political browser sims such as this one.

Even if I were to take your post seriously, it quickly boils down to "Damned if we do, damned if we don't". Do you happen to have any actionable grievances with a degree of validity that we should look at?

If not, we will leave it at this and focus on the complaints we've gotten from others.

 

P.s. given your earlier krampus-related behavior, I urge you to respond more constructively, or not at all.

15 hours ago, Hodor said:

Up vote, but it bears further reiterating: this is exactly the takeaway I'd say is the important part and you've summarized, at least my grievance, perfectly.

 

11 hours ago, Adrienne said:

 

 

Seconded. This thread has certainly been a wild ride and an interesting read, to say the least. Thanks for putting up with us, Syndi, and I'm sorry for some of the bs you've had to put up with on your way to being able to have a more productive discussion. It was nice chatting with y'all this morning on your discord as well.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll reach out on a personal  level to get a better understanding on where you believe that fine line exists if you don't mind.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Prefonteen

[katashimon13]

17 hours ago, Cooper_ said:

(*coughs in Rose's direction*). 

p sure valid cb during a pandemic xP

rawr

[Mayor]

10 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

Hi Mayor,

It's unfortunate that you pick BigBro's (half)trollpost to repeat a few cookie-cutter grievances which frankly could well apply to 90% of alliances in the game across multiple eras. What you've just described is the long-proven standard of political browser sims such as this one.

Even if I were to take your post seriously, it quickly boils down to "Damned if we do, damned if we don't". Do you happen to have any actionable grievances with a degree of validity that we should look at?

If not, we will leave it at this and focus on the complaints we've gotten from others.

 

P.s. given your earlier krampus-related behavior, I urge you to respond more constructively, or not at all.

Hey buddy, you going to rejoin the game yet? Or does Syndicate really have so little support these days that they need to dust off all their old leaders to get them into this thread? I can't say that I was surprised to see you pop up in here but it just makes me so sad because you remind me of the old Syndicate.

You urge me to respond constructively but why should anyone take Syndicate seriously, they are not a serious alliance. They use trash CBs, they are hypocrites, and they obviously don't want to change. I think after this war everyone is fine relegating them to the trash bin of Orbis and forgetting about them. Maybe if you wanted "actionable grievances" you actually read what many in this thread have posted instead of trying to blame Orbis as a whole for their behavior. tS in a year from now will be acting the same way, with the same allies, with the same tactics and rhetoric.. Nothing will have changed.

[Prefonteen]

1 hour ago, Mayor said:

Hey buddy, you going to rejoin the game yet? Or does Syndicate really have so little support these days that they need to dust off all their old leaders to get them into this thread? I can't say that I was surprised to see you pop up in here but it just makes me so sad because you remind me of the old Syndicate.

You urge me to respond constructively but why should anyone take Syndicate seriously, they are not a serious alliance. They use trash CBs, they are hypocrites, and they obviously don't want to change. I think after this war everyone is fine relegating them to the trash bin of Orbis and forgetting about them. Maybe if you wanted "actionable grievances" you actually read what many in this thread have posted instead of trying to blame Orbis as a whole for their behavior. tS in a year from now will be acting the same way, with the same allies, with the same tactics and rhetoric.. Nothing will have changed.

Hope you're well!

Unfortunately your response is not going to invite much beyond resistance or escalation.

I will choose to focus on the more civil responses in this thread.

[Agent W]

On 1/27/2022 at 12:01 PM, Cooper_ said:

Just want to point out that I think ideological disagreements are good and healthy for the game because we should be having discourse from multiple viewpoints.  One of the things I've always appreciated about T$, whether you agree or disagree, is that y'all are willing to take a stance and stick with it for the long-haul.  That isn't something I personally want to see the lost because more principled actors in the game means more interesting and diverse politics (*coughs in Rose's direction*).  

The other question, and the one I feel is more at stake here, is how you go about doing it, and it feels like especially after you left Partisan that things have gotten nastier and exhausting to deal with it.  Adam nailed the point that you splitting the middle expertly, between pushing your points but also stopping before you got too inflammatory.  Issue is that basically nobody is going to be as good at being you as you.

And as I said in a previous post, I don't think it's just y'all but also the environment you're in.  It's one thing to have eumir be eumir on the forums and then have you making tounge-in-cheek "friend" comments.  It's another to have a half-dozen syndi gov and ex-gov relentlessly attacking you in the RON public chat.  I don't need to be called an idiot 20 times before I can finish typing a sentence to know that y'all have valid disagreements with me.  Having been both your ally and enemy, I can say it sucks on either end.  

Obviously, this isn't everything at issue here, but I'm trying to leave the comments on current politics to the active politicians.  

I think to some degree, there's always been an element of nastiness in the community. It'd be easy to come into this thread and blame every bad thing that's ever happened in the game on NPO, but we both know there were bad actors before them, and a number of those bad actors remain.

From my perspective, I do not believe I have ever acted with nastiness or malice, despite what some people may perceive me to be. As to your other points, there is only one Partisan in the game. I could spend all day reminiscing about people in this game I want back, and how people today aren't good enough. I think the healthier option for the community isn't to sit around and mourn Partisan, but continue to build a broad Orbis community that encourages the next generation of players to be just as great as Parti.

As to your point about being shouted down, I don't deny that has happened, but it's a lot less "planned" than I think people believe. I don't tell my members what to post  or when to post. Whether I should instruct them how to post is a different argument. Anyone who is past the age of 25 knows that if your argument boils down to "Your an idiot", that person is generally arguing in bad faith, only wants to sow discontent, and can almost always be safely ignored, if not blocked. In this case, my ideal outcome would be to split the difference. I want my members to be posting and actively contributing to ongoing dialogues, but I want them to do it in a way that isn't borne from a place of anger and spite. Though I do think that banter and a bit of trash talk can add some spice, so long as its done in an IC manner and not intended to pick on others.

23 hours ago, Adrienne said:

 

 

Seconded. This thread has certainly been a wild ride and an interesting read, to say the least. Thanks for putting up with us, Syndi, and I'm sorry for some of the bs you've had to put up with on your way to being able to have a more productive discussion. It was nice chatting with y'all this morning on your discord as well.

I think the idea of "putting up" with the rest of the community is what got us here. There are plenty of good people across the game. People who add value to the broader community. It is my work to continue to bridge the divide that exists between tS and the broader Orbis community. I appreciate the willingness you've shown to engage in this dialogue, and I very much enjoyed our conversation yesterday. It gave me a lot to chew on, if you will.

20 hours ago, Buorhann said:

It's been interesting to see who's BSing civilly and who isn't in this thread.

I think it's relatively easy to spot when someone is being authentic.

1 hour ago, Mayor said:

Hey buddy, you going to rejoin the game yet? Or does Syndicate really have so little support these days that they need to dust off all their old leaders to get them into this thread? I can't say that I was surprised to see you pop up in here but it just makes me so sad because you remind me of the old Syndicate.

You urge me to respond constructively but why should anyone take Syndicate seriously, they are not a serious alliance. They use trash CBs, they are hypocrites, and they obviously don't want to change. I think after this war everyone is fine relegating them to the trash bin of Orbis and forgetting about them. Maybe if you wanted "actionable grievances" you actually read what many in this thread have posted instead of trying to blame Orbis as a whole for their behavior. tS in a year from now will be acting the same way, with the same allies, with the same tactics and rhetoric.. Nothing will have changed.

Hello Mayor,

I'll be honest, you and I aren't exactly familiar with one another. It is clear that you don't particularly care for us. I'd be interested to know why that is. You're entitled to your opinion, but it seems borne from anger. My general outlook on life is that most people are generally good. When negative emotion exists, it comes from hurt that hasn't been properly dealt with. I've detailed my hurt in this thread, I hope you're both brave and mature enough to be able to share yours.

[Mayor]

2 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

Hope you're well!

Unfortunately your response is not going to invite much beyond resistance or escalation.

I will choose to focus on the more civil responses in this thread.

[Nokia Rokia]

On 1/26/2022 at 4:43 AM, katashimon13 said:

also plz look up some resources nearby 😧

we can help if needed

Just wanted to say thanks for the offer but I should be ok I took up a bunch of overtime and should only be in this situation for a month or 2 which is totally ok to me.

[Raphael]

On 1/27/2022 at 11:32 AM, Shiho Nishizumi said:

But I have to ask if perhaps people haven't oversteered on the inclination to reduce IC RP.

just from personal observation, the "let's ditch IC politics and just fight wars for lulz" is a distinctively small crowd. I think the fact that this thread got so much traction, ironically, shows just how many of us still very much care for the IC vs. OOC boundary as well as furthering IC RP.

[Tartarus]

On 1/29/2022 at 9:48 AM, Mayor said:

You are more full of sh1t than a toilet after curry night, but goddamn, I just laughed out loud.

It's completely false, but I can see how it's plausible to you.

[Eumirbago]

On 1/28/2022 at 12:43 PM, Mayor said:

Hey buddy, you going to rejoin the game yet? Or does Syndicate really have so little support these days that they need to dust off all their old leaders to get them into this thread? I can't say that I was surprised to see you pop up in here but it just makes me so sad because you remind me of the old Syndicate.

You urge me to respond constructively but why should anyone take Syndicate seriously, they are not a serious alliance. They use trash CBs, they are hypocrites, and they obviously don't want to change. I think after this war everyone is fine relegating them to the trash bin of Orbis and forgetting about them. Maybe if you wanted "actionable grievances" you actually read what many in this thread have posted instead of trying to blame Orbis as a whole for their behavior. tS in a year from now will be acting the same way, with the same allies, with the same tactics and rhetoric.. Nothing will have changed.

A lot of talk for a !@#$er that hasn't amounted to much lmfao

[J Kell]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:19 PM, Horsecock said:

But he did actually try to talk and act with the purpose of making the game more enjoyable,

Does this game not become more enjoyable when people are a*holes in the political sphere? When people backstab and actual politics go on? Isn't that like the peak of enjoyment from this game when you go after alliances that do that against you and beat them into submission? Is not political discord and open political hostilities fun?

Edited February 4, 2022 by Balish

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

17 minutes ago, Balish said:

Does this game not become more enjoyable when people are a*holes in the political sphere? When people backstab and actual politics go on? Isn't that like the peak of enjoyment from this game when you go after alliances that do that against you and beat them into submission? Is not political discord and open political hostilities fun?

I find this to be true, this game is always more fun if I have someone to in-game hate.  The hate is real helpful in terms of setting future goals.  Currently my in-game hate is directed at tS, which is why we are rolling them.  After this war ends, I will find someone new to in-game hate, or if tS are oldschool BK levels of pain to deal with during the peace process, I will continue to in-game hate them.

[J Kell]

On 1/25/2022 at 12:05 AM, Cooper_ said:

One way that starts is bringing most of politics back to the forums where people (like you just did) can have time to type out reasonable and logical arguments instead of the who-can-type-faster battles you've got on discord with little substance.

End the smoke filled rooms where all the decisions and wars get made outside of the public eye!

[Prefonteen]

1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I find this to be true, this game is always more fun if I have someone to in-game hate.  The hate is real helpful in terms of setting future goals.  Currently my in-game hate is directed at tS, which is why we are rolling them.  After this war ends, I will find someone new to in-game hate, or if tS are oldschool BK levels of pain to deal with during the peace process, I will continue to in-game hate them.

If GOB are oldschool BK levels of pain to deal with during the peace process, I will continue to in-game hate them *and* yell at them.