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An Appeal to The Syndicate


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27 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

A bunch of them have misgivings which are unrelated to what HC said, and it's politically expedient to accuse your opponent with this game's Godwin. The comparison is most certainly not limited to just t$; it tended to be thrown around fairly often in wars because again, pure expediency.

Frankly, it's disingenuous as !@#$. As it stands, no leaders or AA's are anywhere near similar to what NPO was in terms of behavior. The FA's landscape has been very tame compared to what it was pre (and very obviously, during) NPOLT. That comparison being levied to any AA simply holds no water.

I agree that the NPO comparisons need to stop but it doesn't take away the facts that you guys walk an unnecessary fine line. As much as you may want to believe that everyone here is complaining for some political reasons thats not really the case. Many of us are just simply sick of it. The worst part about it is that you guys don't even have the awareness to see how your actions hurts your position. 

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FORMER LEADER OF COTL. PLEASE GROW INTERNALLY

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15 minutes ago, Tartarus said:

Surely, you recognise the contradiction here?

Where am I contradicting myself? I am saying that neither of us can judge the whole of one side based on the actions of some on that side. Perhaps I should have been more clear on that. I meant the reference to some of the responses as an example of that. In that I'm not going to automatically judge you, or anyone else in tS, based strictly on the conduct of a few of your colleagues here.

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Federation of Knox

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15 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

I agree that the NPO comparisons need to stop but it doesn't take away the facts that you guys walk an unnecessary fine line. As much as you may want to believe that everyone here is complaining for some political reasons thats not really the case. Many of us are just simply sick of it. The worst part about it is that you guys don't even have the awareness to see how your actions hurts your position. 

No, I'm fully aware that a bunch of people are chiming in just because there's an opportunity to do so for them. It certainly doesn't need to be politically rooted.

If what you're talking about what I think you're talking about; yes, obviously there's a cost to those actions. It's most certainly gauged whether it's worth pursuing or not. 

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27 minutes ago, Zed said:

I think we have well established that Kayser left us very much in the dark with what all he agreed to. There is a zero percentage chance that Sisyphus writes that epic whales thread if he knows for sure.

We tried, in good faith, to break IQ because of game balance issues. I think a lot of people will agree that NPO turning on TKR when they did is probably one of the single biggest inflection points in this games history.

In all honesty, the plan that was shared with me about NPO was a good one.  I supported it.  I honestly didn't mind a NPO/Syndicate partnership.

My problem was when we caught word that NPO was going to turn on TKR after Syndicate hit Guardian/Grumpy, that when info was shared, it was pushed aside for whatever reason ("No NPO won't", "We'll get NPO to stop", "NPO isn't helping BK", "We'll turn on NPO if they do", etc).  None of us really cared that Syndicate partnered with NPO, but considering what happened and the outcome, it became very hard to trust Syndicate afterwards.

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13 hours ago, Mayor said:

I respect Justin as a person

ew really?

justin is a yeti 😐

6 hours ago, Nokia Rokia said:

toxic

This game is toxic and is likely to remain toxic no matter the side in this we all have toxic gov and members we are ignoring due to them being friends 

toxic

will*

also plz look up some resources nearby 😧

we can help if needed

6 hours ago, Pablo said:

kata has always strived to improve and correct the issues we find

imagine trying to teach the rest of the game to be better so we can have more fun

cant relate >_<

5 hours ago, Buorhann said:

So ask yourself this, why do members of the community view Syndicate as toxic and/or their closest comparison is NPO?  What's causing that perspective?

the community I led was racist and sexist

is it cause t$ and pacific actually do math... and then have the audacity to grow?

TIL hippo lead kt

rawr

Edited by katashimon13
rawr
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15 hours ago, JadenStar10 said:

Are you dense? The Echo Chambers must be real, how ironic, calling another alliance toxic and having your own HIGHGOV do what you CRITICIZED T$ FOR. 

POV: angry poacher boy cares too much about a game

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1 hour ago, Maks Maximmillian said:

POV: angry poacher boy cares too much about a game

POV: I have no idea how to have proper discourse so I will red herring to something from 1 year ago.

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Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines
Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order

 

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59 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

If I am understanding you correctly, you seek for the to take the politics, the vigor and the flavor out of its demeanor.

Maybe actually read it, and then learn to type in English.

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I will add something here because I was one of the very, very few then members of t$ who actually wanted it to happen. The Syndicate sought to sign the NPO for the specific goal of shaking up the game and breaking the monotony of fighting the same war over and over- which we had done at least 4 times in a row before Knightfall and risked doing again due to how poor relations were between t$ and BK, for example. If you go back to the roots of t$ membership in the alliances we came from in the prior game, you can actually add yet another 3 or 4 major wars against the NPO (or coalition allies) in a row, going all the way back to 2013. For us, that was a montony well beyond anything this game faces now.

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1 hour ago, Avakael said:

I will add something here because I was one of the very, very few then members of t$ who actually wanted it to happen. The Syndicate sought to sign the NPO for the specific goal of shaking up the game and breaking the monotony of fighting the same war over and over- which we had done at least 4 times in a row before Knightfall and risked doing again due to how poor relations were between t$ and BK, for example. If you go back to the roots of t$ membership in the alliances we came from in the prior game, you can actually add yet another 3 or 4 major wars against the NPO (or coalition allies) in a row, going all the way back to 2013. For us, that was a montony well beyond anything this game faces now.

 

We both know the continual state of hostilities between tS and NPO here, and NPO/umbrella in the other game wasn't exactly a voluntary state of affairs and we also both know who was the primary reason for the constant wars against NPO in this realm and umbrella/NPO in the other.

Like I've got no issues in criticising tS when required, but I'm not going to hold tS responsible for the era of stagnation which permeated this game when it was being held hostage by Roq's paranoia and holding of grudges ( particularly towards TKR). 

 

 

Edited by Charles Bolivar
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Edit: facepalm I forgot to quote WANA's WoT in this, so just know that's what this is directed at. @Agent W

Edited by Jacob Knox
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On 1/25/2022 at 4:21 PM, Eumirbago said:

Another mother!@#$er that does not know what the !@#$ he is talking about. Everyone that has worked with/been an ally of t$, know how the !@#$ we operate. I can tell you this, @Horsecock @Insert Name Here and whoever the !@#$ else made a WoT like this for the past so odd years can only say good things when they operated within our sphere of influence.

Things may have gone south, or however the !@#$ it ended. At the end of it all though, business was taken care of and people move on accordingly.

You have no say in how good allies operate because we are one of, if not the ONLY, alliance/sphere in this game that is about that action in making sure more, if not all, interests are met.

 

Yep, I still consider t$ one of the most competent alliances in the game. I'm fairly biased because I was there for almost a year but they still have a bunch of quality members.

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11 hours ago, Agent W said:

~snip~

Thanks for the write up WANA, I think this touches on some interesting points. I think for one, in the post NPO era there's been a conscious effort to reduce the toxicity and excess in IC RP. This has been more or less adapted by all alliances, but something critical happened to t$ that didn't allow for it to make the shift as well. I wonder if the tension and borderline animosity surrounding people labeling t$ a hegemony in the period after NPOLT isolated you all and has been informing your mindset since. At that time, I was taken aback at how vociferous t$ was, but maybe this is chalked up to your isolation? or people like me misread it because we still had a bad taste in our mouths from your actions and silence in the first half of NPOLT?

Regardless, the more I think about it, the more I think I've always taken an issue with the way t$ is playing the politics of outrage right now, but it was the norm in the game for so long that it would have been useless to rage against it. Now, t$ alone is still playing that old game and it's much more stark of a contrast to the game the rest of the world is playing. It's always my belief that IC outrage shouldn't be able to be confused with OOC outrage and that a healthy separation should exist between the two and in this style of play the line is very thin.

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On 1/25/2022 at 4:47 PM, namukara said:

Another way in which T$ can be compared to the NPO is in regard to the utter contempt it shows for its allies.

I think this has been adequately addressed by now however I do hope that the comments made by our actual (and former) allies about our relationships might make you reconsider.

 

On 1/25/2022 at 9:02 PM, Jacob Knox said:

So you're retort is admitting to being bad and basically saying "I don't care, because we can do what we want." That is literally some of the worst logic that exists in this world and it's sad to see anyone resort to it.

The logic is perfectly sound, I just take a hard line stance against any external interference meant to affect how t$ conducts its foreign affairs. I generally agree with Partisan in this post:

 

Our way of doing politics or doing FA is just more interesting. Taking that away would make the game far more dull, flavorless and uninteresting. If all alliances in the game did politics the same way, trying to be honorable and so on, things would just get boring. We need good guys and bad guys and I think we're far more suited for the role of the bad guy, as I mentioned before. This is my personal point of view and while some in t$ may share it or parts of it, there are clearly plenty of other t$ members who take a more conciliatory tone, as evidenced by this thread. Taking a hard stance against what you might call foreign interference doesn't mean I can't be reasonable. If you find my stance to be morally bad, that I might agree with. However, it's not "bad logic" if your goal is what I outlined above.

 

On 1/25/2022 at 10:03 PM, Zed said:

It is not based on a year like 2015 when we mostly fought defensive undermanned wars. People like to talk about how we only fight “dogpiles”, and forget that much of our old mentality is forged from having to be under the gun for that long. It is part of the shock that haunted me from Git Gud Friday and wanting any way out of the madness. It is not also a perception based on the creation of Treasure Island, Ground Zero, or surviving an 8v1 throw the kitchen sink hit during Git Gud Friday.

I think this is an important point to make in terms of explaining how our mentality was forged. I remember time and time again having to fight spheres that were larger and more powerful than we were, every time thinking we were going to get hammered. And then, miraculously, we won and kept winning. The feeling at the time from what I recall was one of resignation to anticipated defeat rather than any kind of frustration or annoyance about being "dogpiled". We figured we were going to lose anyway so we might as well give it all we had. So we did, and it turned out to be enough. This is one of the reasons I feel very little sympathy when people say they're getting dogpiled. The other reason is, like Ataxia mentioned in his post, that dogpiles are sometimes necessary in order to win or in order to accomplish the goals of the war. These things are more important than any sense of justice or fairness and I don't think it's unreasonable for us to do what is most beneficial to our alliance.

 

On 1/26/2022 at 1:53 AM, EliteCanada said:

I think Jessica Rabbit would be disappointed in what tS has become and how they have conducted themselves this war and of late. I was in tS for years, albeit inactive for much of it, and I know I am disappointed.

When was the last time you actually talked to someone who's currently t$ about the state of the alliance?

 

On 1/26/2022 at 4:31 AM, Darth Ataxia said:

Beyond its hyperbolic nature, it continues to show that we have yet to recognize the difference between NPO actions that were actually wrong and NPO actions that we just didn’t like.

This is a really good and important point. It's important to realize the difference between the two as you outlined above. I would argue that while t$ has certainly done things people don't like (obviously), we have't done anything that is actually wrong. The problem is when people make this comparison they generally seem to be comparing things t$ does that they just don't like with things NPO did that were actually wrong or at least they fail to make the distinction.

 

On 1/26/2022 at 4:31 AM, Darth Ataxia said:

If one sees propaganda and spin, it falls on opposing parties to combat it and provide their own propaganda and spin. This is something that has fallen by the wayside in recent years and been replaced by people who are unwilling to engage in this type of FA, to everyone’s general detriment. If your own unwillingness to spit out spin and rhetoric is something you have trouble with, please consult with your doctor. Now of course, t$ can certainly change their rhetoric styles if they so choose from something you consider deplorable to something you may consider to be more happy go lucky or something, but that doesn't negate the fact that they will still be putting out spin or propaganda and pushing view contrary to other people.

Another good point and it sort of backs up what I've been saying. We certainly could change our "rhetoric styles" to something different if we wanted to but we're really under no obligation to do so. I agree that it would be to everyone's general detriment and that it's a shame more people don't engage us with their own propaganda and spin. I think we would all be far more entertained if more of us dared to be dastardly. It's not for everyone though and I respect that. Takes all kinds.

 

On 1/26/2022 at 5:38 AM, Buorhann said:

So ask yourself this, why do members of the community view Syndicate as toxic and/or their closest comparison is NPO?  What's causing that perspective?

I think the wrongful use of that comparison has already been talked about plenty. I will only add that I don't think we really need to be concerned about how people who don't know what they're talking about view our alliance when we know the truth of things. Maybe people need to stop listening to people who are simply uninformed or misled.

 

On 1/26/2022 at 7:24 AM, Jacob Knox said:

Both sides have their shortcomings—as you surely must admit some of the posts by tS folks here have been less than savory and only further support points asserted by Horsecock et al—but I see some who are genuinely engaging in discussion and major debate, which is an encouraging sign.

Well, there you see a dichotomy of t$. Frankly, his points are mostly invalid and the post is unsavory to begin with. It deserved an unsavory response. It's nothing personal, just business.

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1 hour ago, Hodor said:

Thanks for the write up WANA, I think this touches on some interesting points. I think for one, in the post NPO era there's been a conscious effort to reduce the toxicity and excess in IC RP. This has been more or less adapted by all alliances, but something critical happened to t$ that didn't allow for it to make the shift as well. I wonder if the tension and borderline animosity surrounding people labeling t$ a hegemony in the period after NPOLT isolated you all and has been informing your mindset since. At that time, I was taken aback at how vociferous t$ was, but maybe this is chalked up to your isolation? or people like me misread it because we still had a bad taste in our mouths from your actions and silence in the first half of NPOLT?

Regardless, the more I think about it, the more I think I've always taken an issue with the way t$ is playing the politics of outrage right now, but it was the norm in the game for so long that it would have been useless to rage against it. Now, t$ alone is still playing that old game and it's much more stark of a contrast to the game the rest of the world is playing. It's always my belief that IC outrage shouldn't be able to be confused with OOC outrage and that a healthy separation should exist between the two and in this style of play the line is very thin.

You're correct as to one source of the disconnect between ts and the community at large. The aftermath of npolt alienated ts strongly, and subsequent events reinforced that over time.

 

Another source you touch on imo is philosophy and style. I can't pretend I'm not confused at your preference of non-ic outrage when the only 2 alternatives I've seen over the years have been some pretty nasty ooc stuff, or boredom ;)

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1 minute ago, Prefonteen said:

Another source you touch on imo is philosophy and style. I can't pretend I'm not confused at your preference of non-ic outrage when the only 2 alternatives I've seen over the years have been some pretty nasty ooc stuff, or boredom ;)

You misunderstand me. I don't prefer OOC outrage. What I am saying is that IC outrage shouldn't be able to be confused with OOC outrage, and I think it often is. IC outrage can be really entertaining and enriching to the game if done well, but I think too often the veil between IC and OOC is very thin if not non-existent.

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