[Treaty] Mystery in the Oasis

[Keegoz]

12 minutes ago, Arln said:

What did you guys have plans for an easy war that got spoiled or something?

Eclipse had no intention of hitting you. You're going to be terribly embarrased when you find out that you've done this out of your own paranoia.

[Leo.]

why'd yall waste time writing this when you were already allied to each other smh

could have asked your members to deposit the fat loot they've got on them instead or help the c3s with 3k infra and 1 farm 

[Arln]

16 minutes ago, KindaEpicMoah said:

Nice way to dodge the question. Don't care + didn't ask + cry about it + stay mad + get real + L + basic + ratio + you fell off + the audacity + triggered + any askers + get a life + ok and? + cringe + not based + not funny didn't laugh + you're* + grammar issue + reported + ratio again + stay mad + stay pressed + cancelled + done for + mad free + freer than air + rip bozo + mad cuz bad + lol + irrelevant + cope + jealous + go ahead whine about it + your problem

 

11 minutes ago, KindaEpicMoah said:

And yet you're still here, embarrassing yourself on the forums. 

You’re the one that just typed a rant calling me jealous and telling me to cry and such. Looks like a call of duty chat lmao

[YangMoment]

24 minutes ago, Arln said:

 

You’re the one that just typed a rant calling me jealous and telling me to cry and such. Looks like a call of duty chat lmao

implying anyone gives enough of a !@#$ about you to genuinely spend time typing that

everything that goob said + yb better

[Exar Kun -George]

6 hours ago, hidude45454 said:

Didn't seem to learn the other part though, where people aren't particularly fans of dogpiles or spheres that are double the size of the second highest sphere though?

Cowardly move, splitting apart only to scramble together at the first sight of something that might scare you.

This perspective I can understand for sure, as it was a calculated risk. However this treaty is time based and wont be around for a long period of time. I would also argue it isn't the first sight or "scare" its when valid intel was handed over to us and we saw the amount we were overpowered by. 

 

On that note the other option you are presenting to MINC (my bloc) is that when we see a threat that outnumbers us (the smallest sphere apart from the micro one) that we should "take it like a champ" because "being dynamic". If anything I find the fact we felt the need to do this upsetting, i have been a avid supporter of mini spheres and deconsolidation for a while now. However once again a larger sphere is targeting literally one of the smallest and we have a duty to protect our members we represent so our wishbook had to be put away. The way peoples opinion bends to each situation is amazing. People are mad the smallest sphere who has intel were being targeted by a larger sphere works together with another sphere so we are not as small and venerable. 

[Vero]

Just now, Azazel said:

This perspective I can understand for sure, as it was a calculated risk. However this treaty is time based and wont be around for a long period of time. I would also argue it isn't the first sight or "scare" its when valid intel was handed over to us and we saw the amount we were overpowered by. 

 

On that note the other option you are presenting to MINC (my bloc) is that when we see a threat that outnumbers us (the smallest sphere apart from the micro one) that we should "take it like a champ" because "being dynamic". If anything I find the fact we felt the need to do this upsetting, i have been a avid supporter of mini spheres and deconsolidation for a while now. However once again a larger sphere is targeting literally one of the smallest and we have a duty to protect our members we represent so our wishbook had to be put away. The way peoples opinion bends to each situation is amazing. People are mad the smallest sphere who has intel were being targeted by a larger sphere works together with another sphere so we are not as small and venerable. 

Admits to knowledge of potentially being hit, and instead of pre-emptively making an offensive blitz, you decide to make a defensive coalition and expect people to believe it's a MDP and not MDoAP. I understand why you thought it was a good idea, but imo it wasn't. You just made yourself a bigger target than before in which potentially even more aggressors than before will be looking at you. Unless you just want to throw away the blitz advantage then be my guest I suppose.

[Keegoz]

3 minutes ago, Azazel said:

This perspective I can understand for sure, as it was a calculated risk. However this treaty is time based and wont be around for a long period of time. I would also argue it isn't the first sight or "scare" its when valid intel was handed over to us and we saw the amount we were overpowered by. 

 

On that note the other option you are presenting to MINC (my bloc) is that when we see a threat that outnumbers us (the smallest sphere apart from the micro one) that we should "take it like a champ" because "being dynamic". If anything I find the fact we felt the need to do this upsetting, i have been a avid supporter of mini spheres and deconsolidation for a while now. However once again a larger sphere is targeting literally one of the smallest and we have a duty to protect our members we represent so our wishbook had to be put away. The way peoples opinion bends to each situation is amazing. People are mad the smallest sphere who has intel were being targeted by a larger sphere works together with another sphere so we are not as small and venerable. 

You guys just trying to make it easy for me to meme you at a later date?

[Exar Kun -George]

2 minutes ago, Vero said:

Admits to knowledge of potentially being hit, and instead of pre-emptively making an offensive blitz, you decide to make a defensive coalition and expect people to believe it's a MDP and not MDoAP. I understand why you thought it was a good idea, but imo it wasn't. You just made yourself a bigger target than before in which potentially even more aggressors than before will be looking at you. Unless you just want to throw away the blitz advantage then be my guest I suppose.

I'm not sure if your referring to us making it public or us calling it a MDP is the issue? or both...., on the point of making us a bigger target, I cant deny the fact for a small bit of time out overall numbers will be "large", however I feel with the positions and beliefs we discussed in private and public with other leadership they will recognize (atleast in private) were not a major threat to them or even the short term meta. 

[Ramona]

6 hours ago, Denison said:

 

 

As they say, Inshallah, feast up big homie.

[hidude45454]

20 minutes ago, Azazel said:

This perspective I can understand for sure, as it was a calculated risk. However this treaty is time based and wont be around for a long period of time. I would also argue it isn't the first sight or "scare" its when valid intel was handed over to us and we saw the amount we were overpowered by. 

 

On that note the other option you are presenting to MINC (my bloc) is that when we see a threat that outnumbers us (the smallest sphere apart from the micro one) that we should "take it like a champ" because "being dynamic". If anything I find the fact we felt the need to do this upsetting, i have been a avid supporter of mini spheres and deconsolidation for a while now. However once again a larger sphere is targeting literally one of the smallest and we have a duty to protect our members we represent so our wishbook had to be put away. The way peoples opinion bends to each situation is amazing. People are mad the smallest sphere who has intel were being targeted by a larger sphere works together with another sphere so we are not as small and venerable. 

On the first point -- I think we both understand the situation well enough to know that Mystery badly misread the situation and made a disproportionate response based on some breakdown of communication down the line or something, I don't know. While I understand your attempts to guarantee your own survival, my issue also lies with the fact that Oasis was willing to take you in and both discourage non-stagnant politics and create a megasphere, however temporary, that can threaten the safety of any sphere regardless of what words you regale them with or not.

On the second point -- I'm not exactly saying take it like a champ? If you were so sure about your evidence why not create an offensive coalition instead where you have more opportunity to make it a fair fight? Creating such an overwhelmingly large coalition, even if defensive, only serves two purposes -- either you intend on intend on dogpiling your opponent with disproportionate force or you don't want to fight any war despite most alliances in Mystery Inc already not having fought any global in nearly 7 months since The Last Ride. Neither purpose is particuarly desirable, nor sets any good precedent. Ultimately, I believe that you cannot be a proponent of minispheres without accepting that some inherent risk comes with no longer owning half the game on your side, otherwise if spheres clumped together near times of war we might as well go back to having a bipolar Orbis all over again.

Not a fan of saying that my opinion bends to each situation though. I admit my opinion skews more towards my sphere during times of war just as anyone's does, but my message has always been consistent. Quack deserved to get rolled when it did, Hollywood deserved to get rolled when it did. But in both cases, the force used to do it was disproportionate. Just hoping this isn't yet another situation where we see the exact same things getting perpetuated.

[Exar Kun -George]

1 hour ago, hidude45454 said:

On the first point -- I think we both understand the situation well enough to know that Mystery badly misread the situation and made a disproportionate response based on some breakdown of communication down the line or something, I don't know. While I understand your attempts to guarantee your own survival, my issue also lies with the fact that Oasis was willing to take you in and both discourage non-stagnant politics and create a megasphere, however temporary, that can threaten the safety of any sphere regardless of what words you regale them with or not.

On the second point -- I'm not exactly saying take it like a champ? If you were so sure about your evidence why not create an offensive coalition instead where you have more opportunity to make it a fair fight? Creating such an overwhelmingly large coalition, even if defensive, only serves two purposes -- either you intend on intend on dogpiling your opponent with disproportionate force or you don't want to fight any war despite most alliances in Mystery Inc already not having fought any global in nearly 7 months since The Last Ride. Neither purpose is particuarly desirable, nor sets any good precedent. Ultimately, I believe that you cannot be a proponent of minispheres without accepting that some inherent risk comes with no longer owning half the game on your side, otherwise if spheres clumped together near times of war we might as well go back to having a bipolar Orbis all over again.

Not a fan of saying that my opinion bends to each situation though. I admit my opinion skews more towards my sphere during times of war just as anyone's does, but my message has always been consistent. Quack deserved to get rolled when it did, Hollywood deserved to get rolled when it did. But in both cases, the force used to do it was disproportionate. Just hoping this isn't yet another situation where we see the exact same things getting perpetuated.

The argument here reads basically as 

> How dare you make a defensive agreement that's so big rather than a offensive colo 
> This grouping is to large for a offensive and would be a dogpile.  

Reminder* Even IF we wanted to reach out to someone other than Oasis, the NAP is still in play for most players. We are very limited on who we are able to work with especially on short notice, I would almost bet no matter what sphere we work with, it would cause the numbers to be "to big". On that note I am happy to be working with Oasis, as there great peeps. Point being, no matter who we work with, the grouping / colo will be big.

 

You are correct we were not part of the last war, however the other option was to add on to a dog pile, we had no place in the war and were not needed; additionally Gun and Roses occurred right after The Last Ride so obvs we were not ready for that one. I believe the correct decision was made. Sure we all accept the "inherit risk" of being a smaller sphere but when larger spheres target the smallest one, I dont think anyone will just accept the inherit risk, especially when the disparity is so big .

 

What's humorous to me is the "causing stagnation" narrative that has been stated a few times, this narrative actually made me laugh irl. The fact that any sphere or alliance or person can try to claim that MINC or even Oasis is the reason for stagnation is absurd. There is already a huge disparity in tiering and scale, if the smaller spheres fight each other we just further the divide and do more harm to ourselves. I am not saying by any means that smaller spheres "shouldn't" fight, I am saying it shouldn't be done to fulfill the satisfaction of other spheres and alliances. All this does is take the light off the alliances that actually are stagnating the game and politics. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Azazel
Clarity I think, 430 am no sleep

[Big Mac]

The hypocrisy is amazing. 
 

I’m very surprised precedent has not shown that the game hates oversized spheres. Especially spheres which are so large they are double the size of the next largest sphere - especially spheres which have over 1500 damn nations. Duck Hunt wasn’t that long ago that it has been forgotten has it?
 

This ‘defensive’ manoeuvre may well have signed New Swamp’s death warrant. 
 

Does this contend for this years ‘Worst FA move?’
 

Oh yeh, this is a perspective from someone linked to Oasis btw

[Kaz]

I say good for you all.  Protect your own.   Anyone with half a brain can see this isn’t an offensive minded move.  It’s clearly one designed to offer mutual protection to 2 spheres who were rolled in their last respective conflicts.    
 

Neither of these spheres are known for offensively launching globals.  Just by the tiering count, the only count that matters, I’d venture that your low and mid tiers are completely safe, anything by above 22/23 would face a significant headwind in a wider conflict.  Not sure what everyone commenting here is crying about other than having to now rework whatever nefarious attack plans they may have had against these blocs.  

[MinesomeMC]

3 hours ago, The Acolyte said:

@TigerFireClock-HW MDP when?
For legal reasons this is a joke... or is it?

Since they’re reforming Swamp, I think it’s better to reform Quack and have TLR 2.0 :serious:

[Bollocks]

Oh hey - it’s like IQ without the IQ

[hidude45454]

39 minutes ago, Azazel said:

Reminder* Even IF we wanted to reach out to someone other than Oasis, the NAP is still in play for most players. We are very limited on who we are able to work with especially on short notice, I would almost bet no matter what sphere we work with, it would cause the numbers to be "to big". On that note I am happy to be working with Oasis, as there great peeps. Point being, no matter who we work with, the grouping / colo will be big.

This is kinda why I argue minispheres should be even smaller than they currently are (and why NAPs are bad) tbh, but I think Quack actually set good precedent in TLR when they launched an offensive war but with plenty of alliances not participating. My main issue isn't that you wanted to work with Oasis, it's that a defensive treaty tells me you are either defending with everyone or "preemptively" attacking with everyone and you have no intentions of making this fair either way (either you get a dogpile or many more months of pixel hugging), when in an offensive coalition you don't have to come straight out of the gates with a 2v1 or whatever.

48 minutes ago, Azazel said:

You are correct we were not part of the last war, however the other option was to add on to a dog pile, we had no place in the war and were not needed; additionally Gun and Roses occurred right after The Last Ride so obvs we were not ready for that one. I believe the correct decision was made. Sure we all accept the "inherit risk" of being a smaller sphere but when larger spheres target the smallest one, I dont think anyone will just accept the inherit risk, especially when the disparity is so big .

I'm not criticizing you for stepping out, and in fact I don't think there was any reason for the current alliances in MysInc to participate in either conflict. I will reiterate my point that y'all vastly overreacted to a perceived threat, but even ignoring that for the sake of argument, I would've given y'all major props for dusting yourselves off after 7 months and then participating in aforementioned offensive war; post your logs, post your DoW, then I don't think nearly this many people would dislike how it was handled.

1 hour ago, Azazel said:

What's humorous to me is the "causing stagnation" narrative that has been stated a few times, this narrative actually made me laugh irl. The fact that any sphere or alliance or person can try to claim that MINC or even Oasis is the reason for stagnation is absurd. There is already a huge disparity in tiering and scale, if the smaller spheres fight each other we just further the divide and do more harm to ourselves. I am not saying by any means that smaller spheres "shouldn't" fight, I am saying it shouldn't be done to fulfill the satisfaction of other spheres and alliances. All this does is take the light off the alliances that actually are stagnating the game and politics. 

No one ever said MysInc/Oasis are the only reason for stagnation; if you wanna go there the big three (Rose BW HW) have also done absolutely nothing during the NAP to make politics interesting. But I am quite tired already of irl politicians trying to divert from their own issues by pointing out other people's counter-issues so I'm saying that if they aren't setting good precedent, then the rest of the spheres should be trying to play their part (the other post today about avoiding NAPs was IMO a good starting spot already from all involved parties). Can you elaborate which spheres you're referring to as the "smaller spheres"? If Oasis is one of them, Oasis is the largest individual sphere by city count and outnumbers the second largest sphere (BW) in tiering all the way up to the mid-high 20s, and with Mystery outnumbers BW in these tiers by double and outnumbers Clock (the third largest sphere) in these tiers by triple in some cases. To your last point, I suppose that's just a difference of philosophy; I like to fight whenever I get the chance, and I do think we are quite close to having two separate sphere wars occurring at the same time given the right circumstances, and then if nothing changes sure, form a coalition that agrees with that sentiment and light a fire under the people who aren't doing anything. Regardless, I am optimistic that eventually because of popular approval or personal belief or good precedent, there will be spheres that inevitably change things up.

FYI I'm not an FA guy, I'm a milcom guy, so perhaps not up to me to decide, but those are just my two cents 🙃

[Dream]

4 hours ago, Keegoz said:

Eclipse had no intention of hitting you. You're going to be terribly embarrased when you find out that you've done this out of your own paranoia.

Duh, who'd wanna waste so much resources over something like that anyway 😀

[hidude45454]

1 hour ago, Kaz said:

I say good for you all. Protect your own. Anyone with half a brain can see this isn’t an offensive minded move. It’s clearly one designed to offer mutual protection to 2 spheres who were rolled in their last respective conflicts.

Neither of these spheres are known for offensively launching globals. Just by the tiering count, the only count that matters, I’d venture that your low and mid tiers are completely safe, anything by above 22/23 would face a significant headwind in a wider conflict. Not sure what everyone commenting here is crying about other than having to now rework whatever nefarious attack plans they may have had against these blocs.

You would be foolish to believe they have not discussed turning their defensive treaty into an offensive maneuver.

GnR was a white peace and not a complete rolling by Oasis's accounts, and even then Oasis missed a lot of opportunities to not get rolled as much, nor did it get rolled because of an offensive coalition against it.

To my knowledge, Oasis have never publicly stated they held a sekrit treaty with Rose, and at the time I'm also pretty sure Oasis ppl stated they were less entering to defend Rose than practice their own beliefs, so GnR remains an Oasis offensive effort. The only war MysInc have fought in was also GnR, with much the same story, though the alliances that did fight have left the sphere, so at best MysInc isn't really known for defensive globals either. I can also guarantee that at least one of these spheres planned for offensive war at some point, but I would rather not reveal the details for obvious reasons.

Mystery + Oasis outnumber BW by a little under an average of 2:1 all the way up to the high 20s. They outnumber Clock anywhere between 2:1 and 3:1 in the same range. I already know HW isn't the sphere you're thinking about, and without the presence of HW's high tier, Mystery + Oasis would be pushing up rather than whoever they're facing pushing down. So not sure what threat any other sphere presents it.

Never had plans to hit either Oasis or Mystery. Thought didn't even cross my mind. If you have as much knowledge of the situation as you seem to let on then you should know most of the people commenting were much the same, at least before this treaty got signed (and then I of course cannot speak for everyone). When I see a combined sphere of 20000+ cities with the next largest sphere having 13000 cities I spoke up, that's it. Don't ridicule the people who are trying to keep a healthier game in mind.

Edited December 8, 2021 by hidude45454

[Darth Revan]

7 hours ago, Arln said:

My bad. The smallest sphere in the game should just allow itself to be attacked and trampled. That’s on me bro

 

[Panky]

7 hours ago, Arln said:

Also look at score. Hollywood beats both rose and mystery. Mystery by some 400k and rose by like 150k. Why are you even bringing Hollywood into this?

Clock beats us by 500k

You were the smallest one by a merely 200k away from rose, and around 600k away from the biggest sphere, THOSE ARE NOT HEGEMONIC NUMBERS MY DUDEEE, 200k you should be able to win against that with good skill. Oasis was the third biggest sphere score wise by very veryy little and extremely close to #1. Now you guys are 1.3 m score bigger than the second biggest and close to 1.7m bigger than rose. THAT MY FRIEND IS VERY MUCH A BIG DIFFERENCE. (also ps im not saying score is everything that matters but as arln was using score i used score also)

Edited December 8, 2021 by Panky

[Bohemond Hauteville]

A coward's treaty. Good job painting a target on your back.

Did "Swamp" not fight against what they considered a hegemony back in 2020? Why have they done the same?

A bit... hypocritical, no? 

 

[JadenStar10]

11 hours ago, Arln said:

Says the guy who’s opinion changes weekly. I specifically remember you ranting about how good Hollywood was then you moved to rose sphere and you changed up instantly.

Actually, I didnt change opinions one bit. Please quote anything from that time where it indicates that I did, im waiting.

[Eumirbago]

Damn lmfao

[KillzBob]

Imagine fighting in a war to stop Hedges to now making one. This has to be the stupidest thing i have seen.

[Indger]

58 minutes ago, Eumirbago said:

Damn lmfao

i want your take on it😂😄