Cherise Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: This is Inst right? I can never keep up with the name changes a bunch of these shit posters do. I ask, because this looks like a stupid Inst post. I suppose it's stupid for assuming good will on your side, as opposed to assuming you weren't fundamentally genocidal. The other side's perspective was that they could not end the war because while your side was being effectively suppressed for the time being (Fark / TCW / Pantheon entering / switching sides did improve the pressure), it could not present itself a security guarantee for the post-war. Providing a massive reparation payment (Black Knights was attacked, after all) that would have shifted the strategic balance sufficiently (i.e, allowed NPO / BK / GoG to buy enough cities to have parity the war after that) would have been an alternative way of ending the war than the long-war IQ felt it needed or the eventual administrative action that ended the war. Remember, I did bother to criticize NPO etc for not selecting a reps policy to achieve the objective. Even if not all of the reps were going to be paid, substantial reps from individual players and alliances could have reduced the duration of the conflict. === As an aside, something like 800 billion represented the total amount of money supply in the game close to the termination of the war. If we consider a paired RSS quantity, that'd imply there were 1.6 trillion of liquid value. I no longer remember the exact calculations, but it was estimated that there was around 1-4 trillion in illiquid assets at the end of the war. I seem to recall 2 trillion being the estimate, with 4 trillion being an upper value. 600 billion transferred from one side to the other (i.e, crippling one side's rebuild, providing city growth to the other) would have been a sufficient basis to end the war without needing it to stretch on as long as it did. Edited September 10, 2021 by Cherise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherise Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 15 hours ago, Skae said: Also, oh nice, Skae is back. (Arrgh applicant, but not on Arrgh Discord). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indger Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Idk but after seeing this thread which has now 4 pages, i think there is a debate. But I am with Nexus. It's just normal orbis cleaning imo. And i don't think it is a very big dogpile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redarmy Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 For a brief moment I thought Methrage was back. 1 Quote "Though it starts with a fist it must end with your mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherise Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 38 minutes ago, Redarmy said: For a brief moment I thought Methrage was back. Should I find him for you Redarmy? I'm somewhat ill-disposed right now, and I'd like someone to entertain you for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenStar10 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Indger said: Idk but after seeing this thread which has now 4 pages, i think there is a debate. But I am with Nexus. It's just normal orbis cleaning imo. And i don't think it is a very big dogpile. It is a big dogpile... which cam/epi deserves. Edited September 10, 2021 by Suyash Adhikari 1 1 Quote Hammer Councillor of The Lost Mines Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order, Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_wall Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 5 hours ago, Redarmy said: For a brief moment I thought Methrage was back. Y’all are straight up playing with fire talking about methrage in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redarmy Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Cherise said: Should I find him for you Redarmy? I'm somewhat ill-disposed right now, and I'd like someone to entertain you for me. I'm good. 4 hours ago, Grey_wall said: Y’all are straight up playing with fire talking about methrage in here. Only once. Quote "Though it starts with a fist it must end with your mind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenStar10 Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 18 hours ago, Redarmy said: I'm good. Only once. Who is methrage? Quote Hammer Councillor of The Lost Mines Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order, Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveth Posted September 11, 2021 Author Share Posted September 11, 2021 (edited) On 9/9/2021 at 6:59 PM, zigbigadorlou said: So, the CB is an anti-Epi grudge match I take it? Calling it that would be incredibly simplistic and disingenuous to our point here. Our CB is Camelot's involvement with IQ in NPOLT, during and after which Epimetheus and other government members endorsed their behavior, spread false narratives, were politically hostile and frankly, outright shitty to us - right down to the peace talks. Up until now, they'd consistently dodged the consequences of their actions, be it by sheer luck or competently signing anyone willing to take them in, despite their past. To his credit, Arthur offered an apology back in the day, in which he addressed many of these issues on behalf of Camelot, claiming they had changed. This was received by us (OWR & CTO) along with many in the community with a fair amount of skepticism, considering several of the gov members were still in the alliance, publicly defending IQ (Epi in particular) and continuing to push their party lines and agenda, which the post apologizes for (the title "Moving Forward" is ironic in that sense). Contrary to what they seem to believe, we are adamantly against the idea of causing Camelot to disband or imposing terms which would lead to that. That would be one of the objectives of the agenda which caused us to switch sides during NPOLT. Once this war is done, we'll consider our grievances as settled and will move forward, hoping they take this to heart and do better. Edited September 11, 2021 by Daveth 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenStar10 Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, Daveth said: Calling it that would be incredibly simplistic and disingenuous to our point here. Our CB is Camelot's involvement with IQ in NPOLT, during and after which Epimetheus and other government members endorsed their behavior, spread false narratives, were politically hostile and frankly, outright shitty to us - right down to the peace talks. Up until now, they'd consistently dodged the consequences of their actions, be it by sheer luck or competently signing anyone willing to take them in, despite their past. To his credit, Arthur offered an apology back in the day, in which he addressed many of these issues on behalf of Camelot, claiming they had changed. This was received by us (OWR & CTO) along with many in the community with a fair amount of skepticism, considering several of the gov members were still in the alliance, publicly defending IQ (Epi in particular) and continuing to push their party lines and agenda, which the post apologizes for (the title "Moving Forward" is ironic in that sense). Contrary to what they seem to believe, we are adamantly against the idea of causing Camelot to disband or imposing terms which would lead to that. That would be one of the objectives of the agenda which caused us to switch sides during NPOLT. Once this war is done, we'll consider our grievances as settled and will move forward, hoping they take this to heart and do better. Epi? Do better? Lmfao 1 Quote Hammer Councillor of The Lost Mines Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order, Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingDracula Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Suyash Adhikari said: Epi? Do better? Lmfao One can hope, I suppose. Glass half full. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohammad Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 TLDR: Camelot became paperless, aka Free Real Estate 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigbigadorlou Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 14 hours ago, Daveth said: Our CB is Camelot's involvement with IQ in NPOLT, during and after which Epimetheus and other government members endorsed their behavior, spread false narratives, were politically hostile and frankly, outright shitty to us - right down to the peace talks. Up until now, they'd consistently dodged the consequences of their actions, be it by sheer luck or competently signing anyone willing to take them in, despite their past. Really now? What's the statute of limitations on NPOlt? That war ended in, what, march of 2020? So a full 18 months of waiting. Are you really dragging up a year and a half's old CB the moment epi steps into office? You've had plenty of time to hit them based on their views a year ago. 4 Quote Hey Krampus, the signature edit is under account settings. Actually, here's the link. https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/settings/signature/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveth Posted September 12, 2021 Author Share Posted September 12, 2021 1 hour ago, zigbigadorlou said: Really now? What's the statute of limitations on NPOlt? That war ended in, what, march of 2020? So a full 18 months of waiting. Are you really dragging up a year and a half's old CB the moment epi steps into office? You've had plenty of time to hit them based on their views a year ago. What opportunities have we had during that time? Please do tell. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr James Wilson Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 On 9/10/2021 at 3:41 PM, Suyash Adhikari said: It is a big dogpile... which cam/epi deserves. What would you know about what Epi/cam deserves? 😂 Quote The Volleyball Avanti Immortali ..one, two, Jimmy's coming for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenStar10 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dr James Wilson said: What would you know about what Epi/cam deserves? 😂 He made me very angry and muted me in a voice chat, therefore, he deserves to get rolled. 1 Quote Hammer Councillor of The Lost Mines Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order, Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavee Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 14 hours ago, Suyash Adhikari said: He made me very angry and muted me in a voice chat, therefore, he deserves to get rolled. Really? That's even shittier than Nexus CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavee Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 On 9/12/2021 at 4:36 AM, Daveth said: Our CB is Camelot's involvement with IQ in NPOLT, during and after which Epimetheus and other government members endorsed their behavior, spread false narratives, were politically hostile and frankly, outright shitty to us - right down to the peace talks. Up until now, they'd consistently dodged the consequences of their actions, be it by sheer luck or competently signing anyone willing to take them in, despite their past. If you really wanted to pay us back you should've hit all past IQ members who left Camelot. But no you didn't, you just hit Camelot and blamed it all on Epi because he was the last one left from IQ in Camelot. While others who left (some certain alliances) they get another redemption card. It seems like you are just riding on the opportunity. Also if you really had problems with IQ please make sure to hit those pre IQ members who left Camelot in next 12-18 months. Otherwise punishing IQ will never be done. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveth Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, Flavee said: ~snip What other ex-Camelot/IQ members would you like us to look into? A significant portion of the people who are currently in Camelot are former members of disbanded IQ alliances, which is how you rose up from your previous state as an alliance so quickly (GotG and Superchola X namely). We can easily spot these based on the graphics or words they put on their Nation Flags and descriptions. You and other Camelot members are more than welcome to reach out to us on Discord or in-game about your innocence or show evidence of the contrary here, though. While they may be oblivious, innocent or even opposed to the agenda mentioned, we have not seen any evidence of this. That being the case, we can only assume they are either complicit or that Camelot adopts a model of alliance in which misinformation and false narratives are spread at the membership level and they follow along, similarly to how former IQ alliances did it. The leadership of the NPO was notorious for doing that. An example of how that may be what's going on, is the recent narrative we've heard from Epimetheus, where our objective in this war is to cause Camelot to disband rather than hold your leadership accountable for its actions. Again, this is completely false as shown by Sval shooting that idea down when Indger brought it up, doing so would be acting against our history. This kind of false narrative echoes how former Emperor of the NPO, Ivan Moldavi, would gaslight his membership to continue a war effort for his personal agenda. Edited September 14, 2021 by Daveth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenStar10 Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Flavee said: Really? That's even shittier than Nexus CB. Clearly you can't process a "joke", Cumalittle Edited September 14, 2021 by Suyash Adhikari 1 Quote Hammer Councillor of The Lost Mines Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order, Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sval Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 "All those valid reasons you have for hitting Camelot are not valid!" Signed, Camelot 1 Quote <~Sval[OWR]> I am your father.<+Curufinwe> Can confirm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thalmor Posted September 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 14, 2021 I'm going to play devil's advocate some because it's fun. On 9/11/2021 at 7:06 PM, Daveth said: Calling it that would be incredibly simplistic and disingenuous to our point here. Our CB is Camelot's involvement with IQ in NPOLT, during and after which Epimetheus and other government members endorsed their behavior, spread false narratives, were politically hostile and frankly, outright shitty to us - right down to the peace talks. Up until now, they'd consistently dodged the consequences of their actions, be it by sheer luck or competently signing anyone willing to take them in, despite their past. To his credit, Arthur offered an apology back in the day, in which he addressed many of these issues on behalf of Camelot, claiming they had changed. This was received by us (OWR & CTO) along with many in the community with a fair amount of skepticism, considering several of the gov members were still in the alliance, publicly defending IQ (Epi in particular) and continuing to push their party lines and agenda, which the post apologizes for (the title "Moving Forward" is ironic in that sense). I think this is a weak CB. You wanna punish past IQ gov? Fine. I still don't want to see any NPO decision maker return, so I can understand the sentiment. However, all the decision makers in Camelot left the alliance just weeks ago. Epi is the only one really left. Arthur went elsewhere, George went elsewhere (although to his credit, he did try to undermine Coalition B). Epi is still left and he's done a wonderful job giving everyone on this !@#$ called Orbis a reason to swing at him, but the time to punish Camelot for being an IQ collaborator was before all they key people jumped ship. You had 18 months to exact vengeance. Speaking of: On 9/12/2021 at 12:07 PM, Daveth said: What opportunities have we had during that time? Please do tell. Huh? Was there some glitch that prevented members of your bloc from declaring war in-game? I mean, just off the top of my head: -Camelot's Rosian allies were distracted when we hit WTF and friends during one of our Crusades. -Half of Mystery was distracted during Guns and Roses. -Camelot was getting pounded six ways to Sunday back in July against a bunch of random alliances. But even these examples kinda don't matter. A year and a half is a long time even by P&W standards. If you want to make something happen, and you can't get it done in that timeframe, that's a failure on your part. 22 hours ago, Daveth said: What other ex-Camelot/IQ members would you like us to look into? A significant portion of the people who are currently in Camelot are former members of disbanded IQ alliances, which is how you rose up from your previous state as an alliance so quickly (GotG and Superchola X namely). We can easily spot these based on the graphics or words they put on their Nation Flags and descriptions. You and other Camelot members are more than welcome to reach out to us on Discord or in-game about your innocence or show evidence of the contrary here, though. While they may be oblivious, innocent or even opposed to the agenda mentioned, we have not seen any evidence of this. That being the case, we can only assume they are either complicit or that Camelot adopts a model of alliance in which misinformation and false narratives are spread at the membership level and they follow along, similarly to how former IQ alliances did it. The leadership of the NPO was notorious for doing that. An example of how that may be what's going on, is the recent narrative we've heard from Epimetheus, where our objective in this war is to cause Camelot to disband rather than hold your leadership accountable for its actions. Again, this is completely false as shown by Sval shooting that idea down when Indger brought it up, doing so would be acting against our history. This kind of false narrative echoes how former Emperor of the NPO, Ivan Moldavi, would gaslight his membership to continue a war effort for his personal agenda. And this is really the post that inspired me to make one in this thread. Flavee's post is basically him saying that what Nexus is doing, is that they're punishing IQ. That the OP of this thread - which is pointed towards Epi but benevolent towards the members of Camelot - is false or misleading in some way. He's saying that you guys should go after all former IQ members and not just those in Camelot to be consistent. Your response to him is to say "well, all I see in Camelot are IQ members, and also they're all either evil or stupid." Okay! Look, I'm not against whacking former IQ members for the past allegiances, but it's kinda weird to say this right after saying you guys have "no ill" towards them in the text of your declaration of war. --- I don't support Camelot and I'm not against Nexus, but upon further inflection, this war is a bit silly (or, at least, the politicking around it is). You want to punish Camelot, but the old guard are either gone or stripped of gov. You name drop Epi and blame him for this war, but then say that's 'simplistic and disingenuous' to say that's all this is about. You say you have no ill towards the members of Camelot, but then say that they're either 'complicit' to some agenda or that Epi is successfully misleading them. Correct me where I'm wrong. I consider myself neutral. I'm just pointing out where me, a dumb third-party, are seeing some issues with the narrative here. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsecock Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 On 9/13/2021 at 11:38 PM, Daveth said: What other ex-Camelot/IQ members would you like us to look into? How about Carthago? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidude45454 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) On 9/14/2021 at 3:09 PM, Thalmor said: -snip- Funny how no one has responded to this in two days lmfao. Though it appears to be a common theme that ppl don't like responding to third party perspectives because it doesn't fit anyone's narrative... Apparently the big brains of today's incredibly mundane political environment have determined that no one is allowed to declare a war without some contrived valid CB (even against Camelot) so my guess is they just had to come up with something lmao; IMO you should be able to hit anyone (and especially Camelot) just for the hell of it but oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited September 16, 2021 by hidude45454 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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