A Treatise on the Current War

[Eumirbago]

2 hours ago, WarriorSoul said:

honest to god are we gonna have to deal with eumir's tantrums this entire war? it's so pathetic

You went from this

1 hour ago, WarriorSoul said:

buddy i don't actually care, which is why i took exactly zero time to respond to any of wana's points (didn't actually read the op tbh), but eumir is out here being the human embodiment of the navy seal copypasta which, to me, is Very Funny.

wars are just some dumb shit i have to do every several months or so because i accidentally found cybernations 13 years ago. internet nerds with a hard on for watching numbers go down are not gonna hurt my feelings lmao

To this

What the !@#$ happened?

52 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Oh tS...

You guys are like the pre 2004 Redsox to our Yankees.  To you we are and continue to be your biggest rival and threat, I assume this to be the case since all you do is declare war on us.  Where as we look at you as an annoying little brother.  Could we attack you guys? sure, but generally there is always someone more important for us to fight than you.   If you guys keep this up tho, you may just move into the number one spot in our hearts.

Nice to see your CB redo is much better tho. 

Call it what you want, your nations will be leveled again and again until my city count reaches about c40.

[WarriorSoul]

35 minutes ago, Eumirbago said:

snip

so is that a yes

[Eumirbago]

3 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

so is that a yes

Sure buddy, whatever helps you out

[Director Nyus]

8 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Its been a long trip since being voted worst player in the game in 2018 to now dangerous criminal mastermind with an unstoppable alliance.

I think there's a miscommunication here so allow me to clean it up a bit.

GoB by itself is not unstoppable. 

Guardian by itself is not unstoppable. 

Both would 100% be incredibly difficult fights because the general member competency and the tiering would support them a lot, but there'd still be a generally fair 1v1 sphere fight.

 

Here's an objective alliance-by alliance tier chart.

Notice something a bit off? If you just look at the totals, sure; t$, Rose, and GoB are relatively matched. But look at the tiering. We're extremely bottom heavy whereas you're extremely top heavy.

What's the point of elaborating that?

Simple: Downdecs+Guardian giving you extra support on the lower half. No matter how you put it, there's next to no way unless GG suddenly stops logging in for either Rose or t$ to 1v1, even if you add allies in. It'd be throwing our c30+ into a grinder and telling them good luck. TKR knows this as we talked about it in depth when discussing meta in Quack. 

 

Now, let me be fair and clear: I don't think GoB or Guardian are innately bad people and doing this to hurt the game, and I disagree with anyone who suggests that. That said, the strangehold on the upper tier hurts it regardless. And I don't think that's all on SRD. There's always going to be folks that don't want the hard fight and they'll be drawn to you. It's your gimmick. It's not necessarily something you can control without uprooting your culture entirely. That said, when you yourself constantly flaunt GoB's relative lack of damage, shit on your former allies for not wanting to fight while y'all always come out relatively unscathed, and then go "well if Rose and t$ would just grow" when we both consistently take significant damages in that tier, it gives you an reputation, and not a good one. It's extremely arrogant and is the reason that t$ has been consistent on this stance for years now.

If you want a switch up, the ball's in your court. Where you throw it decides where the next road leads. If you want to actually see new and interesting FA, it's not us that can make that change this time. 

 

 

EDIT:

 

SRD pointed out it wasn't updated. Got it fixed, will only post t$/Rose/GoB as they're the main point of my post:

 

Numbers for Rose and Syndi are up and GoB's is down, but the disparity is still tehere and the new 30-32's don't change the downdec argument. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Emperor Adam

[BigMorf]

2 hours ago, Emperor Adam said:

Bold of TKR to call Eumir out for "tantrums" (which tbh, in itself makes you look dumb) when their prevailing narrative has been whining about our cb and how its a dogpile. Then, when WANA gives you what you want, have two TKR reps completely ignore the post y'all have been begging for only for one to make a comment on something you've already dug into the ground while ignoring all the additional context, and for you to whine more about a member that's getting on your nerves/hurting your feelings.

 

Bricks in glass houses, friend. I'd do yourselves a favor and let Adri or Cooper chime in, at least they do your FA some justice.

I mean honestly, why should I dig into this more?

We were communicative when asked by people in blackwater that we weren’t on the offensive. Ben approached you when he had the time (he has a lot of stuff going on irl), and you decided that we could be straight up lying to you because of your Grumpy paranoia, instead of trusting people that you had worked with for however long Quack existed.

 

I’m not questioning your Grumpy narrative. You have been terribly consistent with this narrative for a long time. 

 

All i’m doing is pointing out the areas where you are seeing things differently than how they were. We get that we are a threat to you by merely existing, and that you saw an opportunity.

 

I do wish you thought more of yourselves though. You didn’t need Rose. You guys have the talent and skill to do it on your own.

[Director Nyus]

3 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

I do wish you thought more of yourselves though. You didn’t need Rose. You guys have the talent and skill to do it on your own.

You know better.

Read my response to SRD.

[Adrienne]

3 hours ago, Emperor Adam said:

when their prevailing narrative has been whining about our cb

Whining? 😧 You wound me, my dear. You know I'm just challenging you to be your best self. We may have shacked up with your rival but we still care about your wellbeing 😘

"Now that we've moved off that simple point, maybe we can get back to reminding us why we should underestimate you?" 😉

Edited August 20, 2021 by Adrienne

[Shiho Nishizumi]

28 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

We were communicative when asked by people in blackwater that we weren’t on the offensive. Ben approached you when he had the time (he has a lot of stuff going on irl), and you decided that we could be straight up lying to you because of your Grumpy paranoia, instead of trusting people that you had worked with for however long Quack existed.

It wasn't down to 'Grumpy paranoia', but simply established military procedure. Preempting is better than being preempted. Virtually always. It's something I'd expect you to do, provided you have the possibility to do so.

You have formal obligations to your allies, let alone the ones you have to your community. Likewise I expect them to take priority over older/past relationships.

As for Ben; I obviously won't fault him for being busied up. But you have two formal FA high govts, one being yourself. You also have Adri who more or less de facto handles FA stuff as well. The point of having several people to handle stuff is that people lower in the chain can take care of them, especially if it's pressing, which I would argue this was.

[Adrienne]

3 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

You also have Adri who more or less de facto handles FA stuff as well.

This is an overestimation of my responsibilities. Orbis, please do not come to me regarding FA issues. I will just foist you on poor Cooper and Morf.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

2 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

This is an overestimation of my responsibilities. Orbis, please do not come to me regarding FA issues. I will just foist you on poor Cooper and Morf.

It being your responsibility? Nah. Which only makes it worse.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Shiho Nishizumi

[Redarmy]

Come on, t$, you can do it

Pave the way, put your back into it

Tell us why, show us how
Look at where you came from, look at you now
TKR and Guardian and Grumpy
Amateurs can fricking suck it
!@#$ their infrastructure, drink their tears
Come on, t$, get ’em!

 

I believe this is tl;Dr 

[Adrienne]

1 minute ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

Responsible? Nah. Which only makes it worse.

Wars get me pumped. The game alone cannot contain my energy. I have to channel it somewhere therefore I have made the OWF an extension of my battleground. Let's do this shit!

crushes can on head

Woo!

[Justin076]

1 hour ago, BigMorf said:

 

All i’m doing is pointing out the areas where you are seeing things differently than how they were. We get that we are a threat to you by merely existing, and that you saw an opportunity.

TKR signing GG which is a classic and infamous partnership and simultaneously jumping on an non-militarized Rose is not “merely existing”. You got off on the wrong foot from day one and you can’t fault us, Rose or others in this game if our alarm bells started ringing. 
 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Justin076

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

30 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

I think there's a miscommunication here so allow me to clean it up a bit.

GoB by itself is not unstoppable. 

Guardian by itself is not unstoppable. 

Both would 100% be incredibly difficult fights because the general member competency and the tiering would support them a lot, but there'd still be a generally fair 1v1 sphere fight.

 

Here's an objective alliance-by alliance tier chart.

Notice something a bit off? If you just look at the totals, sure; t$, Rose, and GoB are relatively matched. But look at the tiering. We're extremely bottom heavy whereas you're extremely top heavy.

What's the point of elaborating that?

Simple: Downdecs+Guardian giving you extra support on the lower half. No matter how you put it, there's next to no way unless GG suddenly stops logging in for either Rose or t$ to 1v1, even if you add allies in. It'd be throwing our c30+ into a grinder and telling them good luck. TKR knows this as we talked about it in depth when discussing meta in Quack. 

 

Now, let me be fair and clear: I don't think GoB or Guardian are innately bad people and doing this to hurt the game, and I disagree with anyone who suggests that. That said, the strangehold on the upper tier hurts it regardless. And I don't think that's all on SRD. There's always going to be folks that don't want the hard fight and they'll be drawn to you. It's your gimmick. It's not necessarily something you can control without uprooting your culture entirely. That said, when you yourself constantly flaunt GoB's relative lack of damage, shit on your former allies for not wanting to fight while y'all always come out relatively unscathed, and then go "well if Rose and t$ would just grow" when we both consistently take significant damages in that tier, it gives you an reputation, and not a good one. It's extremely arrogant and is the reason that t$ has been consistent on this stance for years now.

If you want a switch up, the ball's in your court. Where you throw it decides where the next road leads. If you want to actually see new and interesting FA, it's not us that can make that change this time. 

Your chart and comparison aren't great, Grumpy currently has 31 members not 35, and if you seriously want to compare us in a one on one, both rose and ts would demolish us, even with guardian, numbers still overwhelm size, and you are still able to attack people that cant attack you back.  Would you have to work for it? yes you would, but would you win after 3-4 rounds, assuming you have your shit together.   You can even look at the fight Dave and I are doing now, you sent 2 35s and a 38 after a 40, and 41, you would have had us dead to rights if we didn't call in some people to kamikaze.

As for guys that dont want the hard fight, your entire alliance just proved you didn't want the hard fight, and you have proved it over and over again over the history of tS.  You want to come after me personally, that's fine but keep my members out of your mouth, you can take your passive aggressive shit and get out of here with that, every member in grumpy fights, and if they dont they find a new alliance after the war ends.  We are one of the only alliances in the game where ALL our guys declare wars.

You cry to me about not being able to grow, you got Eumir, at 550 days old and 29 cities, I am fighting a dude right now that is 1100 days old and has 40 cities.  Those are bonkers numbers, you prioritize your upper tier growth you will catch up or your upper tier allies will help bolster your numbers.  We still have to produce 3 billion+ for those 40 city nations to grow.

As for whatever amount of damage we may or may not take, you constantly !@#$ing about what you perceive to be our lack of damage is not the same thing as us flaunting anything.  Now do I talk about being able to instantly rebuild after a war? Yes I do, but that has nothing to do with taking a lack of damage, and everything to do with being prepared to fight.  It's like how Yarr within a few days was right back to their old numbers, and how i assume TC will be right after this war ends, and how you guys will be after this war ends. 

So if your excuse is that Grumpy has a culture of being a well run alliance, well it will be a cold day in hell before I change that.  I have said this many times, and ill keep saying it, its not my job to beat me, it's yours.

[Spukey]

12 hours ago, BigMorf said:

That’s like when the one weird kid in school suggests everyone should indeed jump off a bridge for science and everyone tells him to shut up and keep listening to Green Day. 

Who is weird kid in this metaphor? (õno)

12 hours ago, Suyash Adhikari said:

 

Come back to us, Jaden, Ayylah is forgiving

11 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

The syndicate didnt like being dumped by TKR, and certainly didn't like who TKR's new GF turned out to be. 

Somehow that led to tS becoming Rose's new side chick. It's like the plot twist in a telenovela.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned ,🤷‍♂️

I feel like I should say something in response to this but I'm at a loss for words.

11 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Jus

t keep getting these city boosts 👍

They seem to be working out pretty well for you. 29 cities in less than two years isn't bad, at that rate you should catch up to them pretty quickly.

Do me!

4 hours ago, Based Department said:

guys i dont care, no listen like i really dont care, seriously i dont actually care, seriously listen listen i dont care really i dont care at all,  i literally dont care literally do not care at all

Based

3 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

edit: whoops that isn't a zig quote, that is a Wana quote that i quoted in zig's post, I dont know how to use forums.

All right, old man, step off of the mic.

1 hour ago, Adrienne said:

Orbis, please do not come to me regarding FA issues. I will just foist you on poor Cooper and Morf.

With the FA authority I totally have as some random guy that plays Among Us with you sometimes, Adri, I have an FA issue. (I don't represent BK in any way. Supercheese, please don't kill me)

26 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

So if your excuse is that Grumpy has a culture of being a well run alliance, well it will be a cold day in hell before I change that.  I have said this many times, and ill keep saying it, its not my job to beat me, it's yours.

Nevermind, stay on.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Would you have to work for it? yes you would, but would you win after 3-4 rounds, assuming you have your shit together.

 

1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Now do I talk about being able to instantly rebuild after a war? Yes I do, but that has nothing to do with taking a lack of damage, and everything to do with being prepared to fight.

Right.

1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

As for guys that dont want the hard fight, your entire alliance just proved you didn't want the hard fight, and you have proved it over and over again over the history of tS.  You want to come after me personally, that's fine but keep my members out of your mouth, you can take your passive aggressive shit and get out of here with that, every member in grumpy fights, and if they dont they find a new alliance after the war ends.  We are one of the only alliances in the game where ALL our guys declare wars.

The membership sticks through thick and thin, as it's actually proven by history. Same about the AA itself. The FA climate often dictates the wars to be fought, which is well beyond the control of most people. 

It's neither their fault, or problem, if you, as a leader, handled yourself in such a way contributed to this end result.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Shiho Nishizumi
Minor edit.

[Hodor]

I am glad y'all are finally settling in on the opinion that GG is hard to fight, the conflicting narrative was difficult to follow. That being said, Grumpy appears to be guilty of the thing that every alliance does: discuss hypothetical wars and prepare for those wars based on threat and likelihood. What I don't understand is, other than hitting Rose which I can see being interpreted as a poor FA move, what has Grumpy done that has shown it's intention to choke out the upper tier? or use it's upper tier advantage to dominate competition? Grumpy is a good ally so it fights when its allies fight and occasionally asks its allies to fight when it wants to fight, but we're not enforcing hegemony in any way... t$ has now "pre-emptively" attacked Grumpy, what, 4 times? I think your intel may be off homies.

[Avatar Patrick]

6 hours ago, zigbigadorlou said:

Now the real question is why you felt it necessary to rope Rose in for this.

It seems you quickly forgot how well HW did against three other spheres. What should've been a very unbalanced dogpile was instead a HW advantage. Why would we take any chances?

[Adrienne]

19 minutes ago, Avatar Patrick said:

It seems you quickly forgot how well HW did against three other spheres. What should've been a very unbalanced dogpile was instead a HW advantage. Why would we take any chances?

There's a lot more context to that. HW didn't do as well as they did in that war based on their own merit. Lots of mistakes were made that contributed to said advantage. You should go check out this post for a pretty detailed analysis of why that happened the way it did: 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Adrienne

[JadenStar10]

2 hours ago, Nukey6 said:

14 hours ago, Suyash Adhikari said:

Come back to us, Jaden, Ayylah is forgiving

Yes, one day 🙏

[The Titan]

I mean, tbqh, everyone was a "potential target". The vast majority of us just wanted a war (as i'm not the first to admit, TLR was quite one sided and HM had been at peace for some time). Instead of just rebuilding waiting a month and then going to war, it was much easier and potentially cheaper to engage quickly.

I'm certain each alliance in HW had their respective political intentions for engaging in the conflict, and yes, T$ was considered... for roughly 5 seconds. All of the ex-Quack alliances were adamant that we wouldn't be okay with doing just that quickly after cancelling the treaties.

Furthermore, I was told that representatives from our sphere had reached out when we first started militarizing, and you insisted it was purely defensive, i'm not certain but I believe we insisted the same. I don't think KT hitting Eclipse should've been taken as aggression from HW, considering KT also hit CC which was not something most of HW was exactly fond of. Myself included.

16 hours ago, Agent W said:

that the Syndicate, the last true powersphere that could challenge them would be next.

Also thanks' for admitting this.

[Eumirbago]

1 hour ago, Hodor said:

I am glad y'all are finally settling in on the opinion that GG is hard to fight, the conflicting narrative was difficult to follow. That being said, Grumpy appears to be guilty of the thing that every alliance does: discuss hypothetical wars and prepare for those wars based on threat and likelihood. What I don't understand is, other than hitting Rose which I can see being interpreted as a poor FA move, what has Grumpy done that has shown it's intention to choke out the upper tier? or use it's upper tier advantage to dominate competition? Grumpy is a good ally so it fights when its allies fight and occasionally asks its allies to fight when it wants to fight, but we're not enforcing hegemony in any way... t$ has now "pre-emptively" attacked Grumpy, what, 4 times? I think your intel may be off homies.

Add about 2-3 more times after the 4

[Charles Bolivar]

2 hours ago, Hodor said:

 ft$ has now "pre-emptively" attacked Grumpy, what, 4 times? I think your intel may be off homies.

If at first you don't succeed....

Though it might be time to try a different option since the preemptive strike just doesn't appear to be working in their favour too well considering the city gap.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Charles Bolivar

[Prefontaine]

I’m just happy to see someone hold those Villains in GoB accountable for their heinous attack against Yarr last war. 
 

The most I was able to do in retaliation was join Guardian and become SRDs ally and deprive him on the ability to attack me. 
 

‘Sup @Eumirbago, how’re things?

[zigbigadorlou]

10 hours ago, Emperor Adam said:

I think there's a miscommunication here so allow me to clean it up a bit.

Miscommunication? SRD was just thanking you for all the (well deserved) praise! That had nothing to do with tiering.

10 hours ago, Emperor Adam said:

it's not us that can make that change this time. 

Yes you can. You just doing want to. 

 

11 hours ago, Emperor Adam said:

This is a continued counter-narrative y'all keep pushing.

Well the war is still fresh, so we gotta have some narrative. Couldn't let the threads just die, can we?

11 hours ago, Eumirbago said:

Call it what you want, your nations will be leveled again and again until my city count reaches about c40.

Stop it, you're making me too excited. ZI me, damnit!

5 hours ago, Avatar Patrick said:

It seems you quickly forgot how well HW did against three other spheres. 

I didn't forget. Just makes the challenge that more worth it. 

6 hours ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

Right.
[sekit]

OK NOW THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR.

First you leak our embassy, now you repost one of Vali's sekrits with no context. I don't know who raised you, but you've broken the 6th commandment TWICE in a day. 

1 hour ago, Prefontaine said:

The most I was able to do in retaliation was join Guardian and become SRDs ally and deprive him on the ability to attack me. 

I figured you joined Guardian because you realized you needed more modern war experience to help with game development.

9 hours ago, Adrienne said:

shacked up with your rival

Tinfoil hat time. I have a theory -a fan theory- that suggests TKR became our allies for two solid reasons

1. To get Grumpy dogpiled and rolled since TKR always gets rolled
2. So y'all can argue with t$ about CB's and stuff