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The First Snek on The Moon (No Whales Allowed)


Agent W
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1 hour ago, Agent W said:

Cooper has admitted that it'd take two spheres to take down GG. In Duck Hunt alone, GG barely sustained damage despite the combined forces of Quack. When you get into dealing with these mega whales, you need all the coverage you can get.

You shouldn't quote someone if you're going to ignore the point they were making and the context it was said in. I made a point that the alliances of T$ and Rose alone were likely enough to take down GG based on tiering.  It was an explanation that they're not some unstoppable force, but could be taken down by just two alliances' tiering alone.  In the grand scheme, GG, T$, and Rose (along with their affiliates) were all upper tier poles and that had a balancing effect in that any combination of two could take out the third.  That doesn't imply that it is necessary to have two to take out one rather it implies that they no single pole was too powerful.   

Obviously, GG barely sustained damage.  We were dogpiled just like you're doing to us right now, which is frankly more than a bit hypocritical.  You're not getting coverage.  You're guaranteeing a lopsided war because you were too afraid to fight us fairly.  

1 hour ago, Agent W said:

Cooper doesn't think our spheres were evenly matched, I clearly remember him saying it would take two spheres to take y'all down. As for getting good, can I perhaps recommend your coalition to stop using naval attacks against us? I  hear that's a pretty ineffective tactic.

This is just a pure lie.  I've said on numerous occasions that I think BW v HW would be a fair matchup.  I've continually pointed out how BW alone is a decently larger sphere than HW to the tune of 10-20% larger, and how you guys outtier us in the upper tier too.  The only tier that we have an advantage in is the 20 or so nations that are C40+ in a war of 1000s of nations.  

I said BW v HW would be a competitive matchup where we'd probably have an advantage in the whale tier while you guys win everything else, and that was when we still had CoTL/E404.  With a good blitz, the current BW could've definitely won a war against HW.  It might've not been easy mode, but it would've been a fun and fairer war.  I think @hidude45454 has already said as much.  Bringing Rose in with you was a cowardly and unnecessary move.  

Edited by Cooper_
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1 hour ago, Adrienne said:

You didn't even mention it though. You just made a weird point about how ghosting nations also hitting us somehow equals aggression.

A got a list, here's the order of my list that it's in. It goes threats, upper tier consolidation and hegemonic tendencies, ghosting from KT, militarizing, posturing, aggression, and then SRD.

24 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

Also, you're taking this out of context. I believe this was in response to you claiming you needed more upper tier to take ours on and adding Rose in was presented as an option, to which you guys said we'd just cry dogpile and it'd be a hypocritical move for y'all iirc so I don't know why you're complaining now that people people are saying just that lol. There are other arrangements you could have made with Rose to not, in your own words, be hypocritical and yet still address your concerns but you didn't take them. Not that I really blame you or mind. Why spend time trying to figure out how best to arrange your coalition to be as even as possible in every tier? Sounds like a headache to me. Plus, it's well-documented that I'm a budding psychopath with a hard on for outnumbered wars. So, instead I say thanks for the narrative help and extra target practice.

Was it not Hollywood that actively planned and participated in a dogpile against Rose? Had it not been for the intervention of Oasis/Mys, it was a pretty clear dogpile. You can't plan a dogpile on one hand and then cry about a "dogpile" on your bloc.

17 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

You shouldn't quote someone if you're going to ignore the point they were making and the context it was said in. I made a point that the alliances of T$ and Rose alone were likely enough to take down GG based on tiering.  It was an explanation that they're not some unstoppable force, but could be taken down by just two alliances' tiering alone.  In the grand scheme, GG, T$, and Rose (along with their affiliates) were all upper tier poles and that had a balancing effect in that any combination of two could take out the third.  That doesn't imply that it is necessary to have two to take out one rather it implies that they no single pole was too powerful.   

Obviously, GG barely sustained damage.  We were dogpiled just like you're doing to us right now, which is frankly more than a bit hypocritical.  You're not getting coverage.  You're guaranteeing a lopsided war because you were too afraid to fight us fairly.  

This is just a pure lie.  I've said on numerous occasions that I think BW v HW would be a fair matchup.  I've continually pointed out how BW alone is a decently larger sphere than HW to the tune of 10-20% larger, and how you guys outtier us in the upper tier too.  The only tier that we have an advantage in is the 20 or so nations that are C40+ in a war of 1000s of nations.  

I said BW v HW would be a competitive matchup where we'd probably have an advantage in the whale tier while you guys win everything else, and that was when we still had CoTL/E404.  With a good blitz, the current BW could've definitely won a war against HW.  It might've not been easy mode, but it would've been a fun and fairer war.  I think @hidude45454 has already said as much.  Bringing Rose in with you was a cowardly and unnecessary move.  

I love how y'all are forming a narrative like we coerced Rose to join this war. That I was in Vexz DM's begging for them to fight with us. The truth is simpler than that, y'all made Rose your enemy, they willingly joined us as equal partners in this war.

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Former Imperial Officer of Internal Affairs and Emperor of the New Pacific Order, Founder of the Syndicate, Current Chief Global Strategist of the Syndicate.

 

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Just now, Adrienne said:

Are you new to Orbis? Also, nice deflection. 

I mean, I suppose you can, it just makes you look like a hypocrite, but that's your cross to bear.

Former Imperial Officer of Internal Affairs and Emperor of the New Pacific Order, Founder of the Syndicate, Current Chief Global Strategist of the Syndicate.

 

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2 minutes ago, Agent W said:

A got a list, here's the order of my list that it's in. It goes threats, upper tier consolidation and hegemonic tendencies, ghosting from KT, militarizing, posturing, aggression, and then SRD.

That's a weird order but okay, and good job clarifying that from the onset.

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3 minutes ago, Agent W said:

I love how y'all are forming a narrative like we coerced Rose to join this war. That I was in Vexz DM's begging for them to fight with us. The truth is simpler than that, y'all made Rose your enemy, they willingly joined us as equal partners in this war.

You're the only one who is saying that.  My point is that you shouldn't be proud of going in as a dogpile.  I simply never understand all of the fist-thumping about fighting a war you have no chance of losing.  It's a coward's move.  Fight us fairly by yourselves.  We'll be down for it whenever.

Edited by Cooper_
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Just now, Agent W said:

I mean, I suppose you can, it just makes you look like a hypocrite, but that's your cross to bear.

It's yours to bear too, in your own words. So good job?

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1 minute ago, Cooper_ said:

You're the only one who is saying that.  My point is that you shouldn't be proud of going in as a dogpile.  I simply never understand all of the fist-thumping about fighting a war you have no chance of losing.  It's a coward's move.  Fight us fairly by yourselves.  We'll be down for it whenever.

This war isn't about pride, pride is a fool's errand better left to Grumpy. This war, like most of what tS engages in, is business. For that matter, our business is largely with Grumpy, y'all interjected into that business, and the fact that you and Adrienne are all over this thread trying to make this war about you shows just how little you understand FA.

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Former Imperial Officer of Internal Affairs and Emperor of the New Pacific Order, Founder of the Syndicate, Current Chief Global Strategist of the Syndicate.

 

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Just now, Majima Goro said:

It started as a dogpile but you got dogpiled back lmao. Hilarious innit?

We were well aware of the fact that reinforcements were coming. The reason we took the aggression in that conflict was to have a chance to execute a blitz that would give us a fighting chance. I'm sure TKR can confirm this to you.

Former Imperial Officer of Internal Affairs and Emperor of the New Pacific Order, Founder of the Syndicate, Current Chief Global Strategist of the Syndicate.

 

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17 minutes ago, Agent W said:

I love how y'all are forming a narrative like we coerced Rose to join this war. That I was in Vexz DM's begging for them to fight with us. The truth is simpler than that, y'all made Rose your enemy, they willingly joined us as equal partners in this war.

No one said that? As you well know, haha. We've stated in our private chats with you that we're not surprised Rose wanted this and we didn't really think it took much lmao. Hence why we're not bugging them on their thread despite their post also being amusingly devoid of actual content and reason. Regarding the other stuff, Cooper has his own opinions regarding morality and meta, as you well know. You can feel free to take that as derivative of all of TKR but I think that'd be a waste of your time. 

10 minutes ago, Agent W said:

This war isn't about pride, pride is a fool's errand better left to Grumpy. This war, like most of what tS engages in, is business. For that matter, our business is largely with Grumpy, y'all interjected into that business, and the fact that you and Adrienne are all over this thread trying to make this war about you shows just how little you understand FA.

Wana: "I made a bad DoW that doesn't clearly explain our reasons for wanting this war and makes us look easily spooked and TKR pointing that out means they don't understand FA and are making it all about them! I will combat this by making poor deflections, taking comments out of context, and conflating arguments. I am a genius."

Edited by Adrienne
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Just now, Agent W said:

This war isn't about pride, pride is a fool's errand better left to Grumpy. This war, like most of what tS engages in, is business. For that matter, our business is largely with Grumpy, y'all interjected into that business, and the fact that you and Adrienne are all over this thread trying to make this war about you shows just how little you understand FA.

You have failed to truly respond to any of our arguments.  All you've offered so far is whataboutism, weak spin, and a few caged insults.  And now you're choosing to hide behind rhetoric like "it's business" and trying to make light of our understanding of FA instead of responding to the point.  You didn't need Rose to win this war.  It's that simple.  
I get it in a way because there is no real response to it, especially considering our shared history in DH.  But it's disappointing that we're still fumbling around trying to justify it.  At the very least, you've admitted that your stated CB in the OP was a joke.  

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9 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

You have failed to truly respond to any of our arguments.  All you've offered so far is whataboutism, weak spin, and a few caged insults.  And now you're choosing to hide behind rhetoric like "it's business" and trying to make light of our understanding of FA instead of responding to the point.  You didn't need Rose to win this war.  It's that simple.  
I get it in a way because there is no real response to it, especially considering our shared history in DH.  But it's disappointing that we're still fumbling around trying to justify it.  At the very least, you've admitted that your stated CB in the OP was a joke.  

If your argument is to take a war that would not be able to fulfill our strategic objectives, I'm afraid you must think we're quite dumb. As I've previously stated, TKR aren't our objective, they never have been. It's a damn shame that Grumpy has convinced you to be their meatshields, as I have a lot of respect for many in your alliance. Also, the only thing I've admitted is that I opted for brevity rather than a WoT.

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Former Imperial Officer of Internal Affairs and Emperor of the New Pacific Order, Founder of the Syndicate, Current Chief Global Strategist of the Syndicate.

 

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16 hours ago, Adrienne said:

I'm just gonna break down why this is trash, since folks like @Darth Revan are lapping it up.

Everyone knows SRD likes to talk trash, as you yourself have stated. SRD's statement may be indicative of Grumpy's thoughts but it is not indicative of an entire sphere and, as SRD has already stated, he says stuff like that about literally everyone. Also, given your alliance's general attitude towards his and his treaty with Guardian, is it any wonder why he would be apprehensive about you guys wanting to hit him? Y'all have trashed them constantly and taken nearly every chance you do get to hit them.

Furthermore, using a handful of raiders joining an alliance that literally also hit our sphere as evidence of Hollywood aggression against you is laughable. If it were some great Grumpy plot, hitting our own sphere wouldn't exactly be the goal. Individuals act as they want to act and you're spinning garbage out of literally nothing.

As I've repeatedly told you guys in private, I am not shocked nor upset about this war. I understand you were concerned in general about our sphere, that there are gripes due to the formation of Hollywood/hitting Rose, and felt like we'd eventually come to you. But you knew it wasn't now as we had literally reached out to you about demilitarizing. You chose now because you were already militarized and Rose was militarizing and wanted to hit us because of last war so it was easy and the timing was convenient for you guys. Just own up to the real reasons instead of posting garbage DoWs with half-baked explanations. I expect better from you guys.

@zigbigadorlou told me to talk to @Agent W about clapping GOB cheeks. He said you guys said !@#$ no, but @Agent W said !@#$ yes.

5 hours ago, Hodor said:

Without knowing what you're talking about, I'd argue short memories in a browser based nation sim are a good thing.

@zigbigadorlou said that if he actually tries, he can become FA. Is it the same with you? If you actually try can you become FA?

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3 minutes ago, Agent W said:

If your argument is to take a war that would not be able to fulfill our strategic objectives, I'm afraid you must think we're quite dumb. As I've previously stated, TKR aren't our objective, they never have been. It's a damn shame that Grumpy has convinced you to be their meatshields, as I have a lot of respect for many in your alliance. Also, the only thing I've admitted is that I opted for brevity rather than a WoT.

No one's saying we're your objective? You're falsely inferring that based on the fact that we're calling you out for your half-baked DoW. You can be both brief and accurate in your reasoning, you know.

2 minutes ago, Eumirbago said:

@zigbigadorlou told me to talk to @Agent W about clapping GOB cheeks. He said you guys said !@#$ no, but @Agent W said !@#$ yes.

Hi Eumir. I have no idea what you're saying here but no war with t$ is complete without you uttering the phrase "clapping cheeks" so 😘

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6 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

No one's saying we're your objective? You're falsely inferring that based on the fact that we're calling you out for your half-baked DoW. You can be both brief and accurate in your reasoning, you know.

I offered reasons, you didn't like them, I offered more reasons, you also didn't like those. I understand TKR is upset at this turn of events, that's your right, but it doesn't actually make those reasons less valid.

Former Imperial Officer of Internal Affairs and Emperor of the New Pacific Order, Founder of the Syndicate, Current Chief Global Strategist of the Syndicate.

 

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9 minutes ago, Redarmy said:

I see a lot mentions of dogs but don't see puppies in this thread. 

https://giphy.com/gifs/puppy-follow-for-qPuhFBQt8xLEY

Live image of the blitz

6 minutes ago, Agent W said:

I offered reasons, you didn't like them, I offered more reasons, you also didn't like those. I understand TKR is upset at this turn of events, that's your right, but it doesn't actually make those reasons less valid.

Lol. TKR is not upset at the turn of events and you're well aware of that. TKR knows your actual reasons and is fine with those but thinks you did an awful job conveying those until maybe page 3? of this thread. TKR simply thinks you should own up to that and stop deflecting, intentionally misrepresenting us (especially when you do it so poorly!), and making veiled insults instead of addressing our points.

Edited by Adrienne
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25 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

Hi Eumir. I have no idea what you're saying here but no war with t$ is complete without you uttering the phrase "clapping cheeks" so 😘

@zigbigadorlou said that he tried talking to you guys about hitting us and ya'll told him to go !@#$ himself

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All this for little old grumpy? I am touched!  Thanks Wana, let's get this war fought and done, and see if you can find another boogey man to fight (Rose's combined upper tier is pretty impressive so watch out!).  Think you would get tired of attacking us over and over again. Tho its nice to see tS finally got a group together that is big enough so that we can't embarrass you again on the battle field.

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3 hours ago, Agent W said:

If we truly believed that GG's intentions were peaceful, then there wouldn't be a reason to go after them.

What the !@#$ does this even mean? Grumpy is the only alliance in the game that can't participate in the War part of Politics and War?

If we fight, we aren't "peaceful" when we sit out, we are making the game worse by growing while everyone else fights... y'all gotttttta get the story straight about us

Edited by Hodor
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8 hours ago, Kyubnyan said:

Rose was dogpiled last war? I'd like some of whatever you were smoking when you came to that conclusion because I can assure you the initial blitz wasn't even close to 2:1 and they pulled a secret treaty such that we were the ones dogpiled in the end.

Alright - I stand corrected 

clearly wasn’t paying attention last war lmfao

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46 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

All this for little old grumpy? I am touched!  Thanks Wana, let's get this war fought and done, and see if you can find another boogey man to fight (Rose's combined upper tier is pretty impressive so watch out!).  Think you would get tired of attacking us over and over again. Tho its nice to see tS finally got a group together that is big enough so that we can't embarrass you again on the battle field.

Talk is cheap, infra isn't. When was the last time y'all fought a challenging war again?

28 minutes ago, Hodor said:

What the !@#$ does this even mean? Grumpy is the only alliance in the game that can't participate in the War part of Politics and War?

If we fight, we aren't "peaceful" when we sit out, we are making the game worse by growing while everyone else fights... y'all gotttttta get the story straight about us

I was referring to your intentions towards us. If we believed you wouldn't hit us eventually, then perhaps things could have been different. Instead, we opted to neutralize the threat before you could come for us.

Former Imperial Officer of Internal Affairs and Emperor of the New Pacific Order, Founder of the Syndicate, Current Chief Global Strategist of the Syndicate.

 

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6 minutes ago, Agent W said:

I was referring to your intentions towards us. If we believed you wouldn't hit us eventually, then perhaps things could have been different. Instead, we opted to neutralize the threat before you could come for us.

Haven't y'all hit us all 3 or 4 of the times we've fought? I think it's time to assess whether our OpSec is non-existent or you're paranoid.

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