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Game Development Thread - July


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4 minutes ago, Majima Goro said:

Say you are fighting someone of equal size in numbers(lol)
Now they attacked first and took all your spies out. 
Given spies take 3 weeks to max out for the average poor person who only can afford an IA, it is impossible to reach past 6 spies.
The other side keeps spy-wiping everyone every third or fourth day and your side never has a chance to gain back spies at all.

What the reserve system does it that any spies you buy get sent into a sleeping force that cannot be assassinated at all.
You can keep building spies in the reserve section and then when your coalition is ready, have them come out of the reserve and launch a spy attack on the other coalition to take their spies out, turning the spy war in your favour(till the opposition does the same things as you did)

Tl;Dr: This is like beige for spies.

Ok so when you move them out of reserve, they just die again because bots can tell with in 1-3 spies how many spies a nation has.  So my question is still how does this fix anything beyond giving if you are lucky, a 2 day stretch of being able to spy, before your new spies get wiped out.

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3 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Alliances will gain the ability to embargo other alliances

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This single change puts control of the economy of the game in the hands of a select few people (alliance gov).

The functionality of embargoes already exist and are utilized to varying degrees of effectiveness, a coordinated embargo could be issued.

 

Now it just takes a single active member in alliances of 50-100 members to take chunks of the market out of reach for other players. It's too much control over individual nations to give to alliance leaders imo.

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20 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Ok so when you move them out of reserve, they just die again because bots can tell with in 1-3 spies how many spies a nation has.  So my question is still how does this fix anything beyond giving if you are lucky, a 2 day stretch of being able to spy, before your new spies get wiped out.

you move them out, use them and then yes, they die. 
and no, it isn't a 2 day stretch. You can keep building spies in reserve and have 60 spies in reserve, take them out and do 4 ops before they die.
the enemy can do that as well.

19 minutes ago, Bojack Horseman said:

This single change puts control of the economy of the game in the hands of a select few people (alliance gov).

The functionality of embargoes already exist and are utilized to varying degrees of effectiveness, a coordinated embargo could be issued.

 

Now it just takes a single active member in alliances of 50-100 members to take chunks of the market out of reach for other players. It's too much control over individual nations to give to alliance leaders imo.

Not at all
The player can manually remove the embargo on another alliance by their alliance.
This actually makes embargoes more interesting.

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20 minutes ago, Bojack Horseman said:

This single change puts control of the economy of the game in the hands of a select few people (alliance gov).

The functionality of embargoes already exist and are utilized to varying degrees of effectiveness, a coordinated embargo could be issued.

 

Now it just takes a single active member in alliances of 50-100 members to take chunks of the market out of reach for other players. It's too much control over individual nations to give to alliance leaders imo.

Members can opt out. Alliance leaders already have the ability to tax a nation up to their full economy, start a war that forces war upon that nation, but having the ability to stop them from trading with someone unless they manually cancel it is too far? I don't buy it. 

36 minutes ago, Sri Lanka 001 said:

bombardment is a huge nerf to pirates, which is already nerfed to havoc when nation score changed from 50 to 100. 

It cannot kill military or power based improvements. Pirates can still fight, their commerce/resource related improvements are the only thing at risk. 

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Always keep your foes confused. If they are never sure who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next.
Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you.

scSqPGJ.gif

It's like I'm reading a book and it's a book I deeply love. I'm reading it slowly now so the words are really far apart and the spaces between the words are almost infinite. I can still feel the words of the story, but it's in this endless space between the words I find myself now It's a place that's not of the physical. It's where everything else is. This is where I am now, and who I am.

 

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3 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Treasure Lottery:

  • 50% of the Treasures in the game are marked as "Lottery Treasures".
  • A nation can buy a treasure lottery ticket with 1 credit.
    • A player may only have 5 lottery tickets at a given time.
    • Lottery Tickets roll over to the next cycle if not winners.
  • A player may only win 1 Treasure per cycle.
  • If there are more treasures than lottery ticket holds the treasure is dispersed at random to the whole game population.

 

Please upvote or downvote if you like/dislike these changes

 

Credits are what keep this game running. This is a method to increase credit usage without dramatically impacting the game as treasures are already random and measures are in place from rich alliances gaining too much from accumulating treasures.

So we went from "Can we please have the ability to trade treasures without breaking Alex's new rule" to "Pls unnecessarily monetize more things"

I'm somehow completely unsurprised.

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57 minutes ago, Majima Goro said:

you move them out, use them and then yes, they die. 
and no, it isn't a 2 day stretch. You can keep building spies in reserve and have 60 spies in reserve, take them out and do 4 ops before they die.
the enemy can do that as well.

Not at all
The player can manually remove the embargo on another alliance by their alliance.
This actually makes embargoes more interesting.

Ei actually make embargo’s matter 

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54 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

Members can opt out. Alliance leaders already have the ability to tax a nation up to their full economy, start a war that forces war upon that nation, but having the ability to stop them from trading with someone unless they manually cancel it is too far? I don't buy it. 

It cannot kill military or power based improvements. Pirates can still fight, their commerce/resource related improvements are the only thing at risk. 

Have you heard of this wonderful improvement called Police Station?

Or better still, have you heard of pirates having passive income for when they aren't raiding/trying to spend time in beige?

6 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

So we went from "Can we please have the ability to trade treasures without breaking Alex's new rule" to "Pls unnecessarily monetize more things"

I'm somehow completely unsurprised.

And then we realize how simple it is to fix treasure trading by just making treasure transfers via declaring war on someone legal again.

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4 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Treasure Lottery:

  • 50% of the Treasures in the game are marked as "Lottery Treasures".
  • A nation can buy a treasure lottery ticket with 1 credit.
    • A player may only have 5 lottery tickets at a given time.
    • Lottery Tickets roll over to the next cycle if not winners.
  • A player may only win 1 Treasure per cycle.
  • If there are more treasures than lottery ticket holds the treasure is dispersed at random to the whole game population.

 

Please upvote or downvote if you like/dislike these changes

 

Credits are what keep this game running. This is a method to increase credit usage without dramatically impacting the game as treasures are already random and measures are in place from rich alliances gaining too much from accumulating treasures.

No, This essentially makes treasures pay 2 win. So just a ploy to get us to spend more money on Alex.

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57 minutes ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

So treasures are basically being monetized at this point? lol Funny play to get people to buy and redeem more credits.
Im pretty sure in regards to treasures that people just wanted an actual treasure trading system since alex stopped treasure transfers through wars nearly half a year ago now and still hasnt released the promised treasure transfer mechanic that we were supposed to see "soon".

Let the man make some more cheddar.

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1 hour ago, Prefontaine said:

Members can opt out. Alliance leaders already have the ability to tax a nation up to their full economy, start a war that forces war upon that nation, but having the ability to stop them from trading with someone unless they manually cancel it is too far? I don't buy it. 

It cannot kill military or power based improvements. Pirates can still fight, their commerce/resource related improvements are the only thing at risk. 

Yes, pirate can still fight, however a huge trunk of income is coming from these passive revenue as well, especially in high tier where the targets are only people in alliances. We need these passive income to maintain piracy. Pirating is not just ARRRGHH loot ARRRGH, econ plays a huge role. As of what I've seen in my alliance, half of our high tier revenue is from passive income, and bombarding is directly threatening this. 

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-Having fought in both winning and losing spy wars, it's only fair that a competent winning side is able to keep the losing side's spies down. Also, this removes a lot of the fun out of spying people outside of wartime

-The only time beforehands in which I'd do bombing runs was already when the enemy had low planes, because otherwise the higher casualty rate on my own planes was already large enough of a deterrent. imo casualties are already fine as is

-Welp I was already considering decomming ID for being useless; this will probably push it over the edge for me

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9 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

 

  • Resource Production Center
    • Every turn the nation gets 1 raw resource for each raw resource they can mine (except food) for each city they have up to 5 cities. (60 resources times 3 resource types is a 180 resources total per day)
      • Cost: $500,000
        Food: 1,000

Second project is the tutorial project.

I haven't seen this point being posted here so I might as well (unless there is something obvious i'm missing about it).
This project is absurdly cheap for what you get, I get that it is intended for new players, but 180 rss a day is like $720k a day ($4k average rss price [sell market] for SA) and the Project's cost is like $600k ($500k cash, $100k for the food). For perspective, 2k infra city gives like $650k a day afais.
I think this project costs should be raised by like 10x (any newbie can raid $6m in a day ez) and production halved from what I see here, possibly even less production (to make it even).

Also, quick note on that DP project is only really gonna be bought by Alpha and Yarr tbf.

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4 hours ago, Sri Lanka 001 said:

Yes, pirate can still fight, however a huge trunk of income is coming from these passive revenue as well, especially in high tier where the targets are only people in alliances. We need these passive income to maintain piracy. Pirating is not just ARRRGHH loot ARRRGH, econ plays a huge role. As of what I've seen in my alliance, half of our high tier revenue is from passive income, and bombarding is directly threatening this. 

Also imma get downvotes for saying this, but if only half your revenue as a pirate comes from raiding, consider getting good (or going back to farming)? 😛

Personally when I pirate I go balls to the wall and decom all non-essential improvements so bombarding means nothing to me. IMO there's already a tradeoff you have to make between passive farming revenue and active raiding revenue that you have to make when pirating, and a change like this will ultimately mean little to nothing for the good ones.

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19 minutes ago, hidude45454 said:

Also imma get downvotes for saying this, but if only half your revenue as a pirate comes from raiding, consider getting good (or going back to farming)? 😛

Personally when I pirate I go balls to the wall and decom all non-essential improvements so bombarding means nothing to me. IMO there's already a tradeoff you have to make between passive farming revenue and active raiding revenue that you have to make when pirating, and a change like this will ultimately mean little to nothing for the good ones.

But I need my farms, where will I keep the cows?

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26 minutes ago, hidude45454 said:

Also imma get downvotes for saying this, but if only half your revenue as a pirate comes from raiding, consider getting good (or going back to farming)? 😛

Personally when I pirate I go balls to the wall and decom all non-essential improvements so bombarding means nothing to me. IMO there's already a tradeoff you have to make between passive farming revenue and active raiding revenue that you have to make when pirating, and a change like this will ultimately mean little to nothing for the good ones.

I mean... not everyone is u k? I am happy making 250M a week from pirate + econ leave me alone :c 

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11 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

New Project:

  • Government Oversight Agency
    • Improves Domestic Policy Effect by 50% (5% -> 7.5%) (1% -> 1.5% for open markets)
      • Cost: $20,000,000
        Food: 200,000
        Aluminum: 10,000
  • Resource Production Center
    • Every turn the nation gets 1 raw resource for each raw resource they can mine (except food) for each city they have up to 5 cities. (60 resources times 3 resource types is a 180 resources total per day)
      • Cost: $500,000
        Food: 1,000

 

Please upvote or downvote if you like/dislike these changes

 

Second project is the tutorial project.

Government Oversight Agency- I feel that this is a good project concept, I feel that it gives more weight to Domestic Policy, forcing economics departments to consider policies a bit more closely. However, at the same time, I have a distaste for projects in this game that tend to benefit larger nations more than smaller ones; like most of the projects in the game, this is another one of those. It is in fact the case that nations with more infra, more land, and higher city counts will see larger total discounts than smaller nations, because of the nature of percentages. I would suggest that for this project, we look at a way to sort of cap out or limit the benefits once your nation is at some certain size, or that this project have some sort of curve where it is more beneficial for smaller nations to grab. This game is very skewed in favor of larger nations at times, and I'd really like to see some projects that help address that. I think this is a project, with my suggestion, that could potentially do that. 

Resource Production Center- Again, I feel that this is a good project, but something must be considered before implementing it. Based on everything you have written about this project, it seems as though it is meant to bolster the economy of smaller nations. However, after doing some calculations myself, it is almost certain that it would be worthwhile for any nation that could spare the slot to buy this project, and I think that would be the potential downfall of this project. It is intended to bolster the economies of smaller nations, however it is the case that if everyone buys this project, suddenly, there could become *too many* raws in circulation, and the price of raws could diminish to a point where smaller nations actually see their income hurt because of large scale economics. Perhaps this project should only work for smaller nations, and become ineffective once a nation reaches 20 cities? (In my opinion, you should also get the project slot back once hitting 20 cities if this was to occur) This concern of mine could be overblown, however I think it is something worth considering, and I don't think it would really hurt the game if large nations didn't have access to this project. 

As a side note, I'd also like to see you somehow address the concern of too few project slots for smaller nations. Personally, I could see both of these projects being bought at 16 cities or before, and as it stands now, I can count 8 projects that a City 16 should at least consider grabbing at or before that city count, these additional two would make it 10. With reasonable, and what some might consider high, levels of infra (2,000 per city at 16 cities), a nation would have at most 8 project slots at 16 cities assuming that they got the project slot for fighting wars. I think something you should consider to remedy this is having the first 10,000 levels of infrastructure count for 4 slots, instead of only 2. Essentially, you would get a project slot for every 2,500 infra for the first 10,000 infra your nation has, and after the first 10,000, you would go back to the normal 5,000 per slot.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, hidude45454 said:

Personally when I pirate I go balls to the wall and decom all non-essential improvements so bombarding means nothing to me.

Police Stations are a non-power, non-military improvement that is absolutely essential to get the population needed to keep recruiting max soldiers and substantially increase ship buys. Hospitals is another such improvement however they have way less impact. If these two improvements keep getting killed each time someone bombards my cities, I have three options: Build them back(buy infra), Buy more infra to offset the population lost(buy infra) or Just do with a less buy which could get your c20 the same buys as a c15. 

6 hours ago, hidude45454 said:

IMO there's already a tradeoff you have to make between passive farming revenue and active raiding revenue that you have to make when pirating and a change like this will ultimately mean little to nothing for the good ones.

unknown.png

Builds for top 10 of these are(in order per city(unless specified)):
1) 2 nuke plants, 3 uranium mines, 20 farms, 5552, 1 police station.
2) 1 nuke plant, 1 police station, 1 hospital, 5553
3) 2 nuke plants, 20 farms, 12 aluminum refineries(in total), 1 police, 1 hospital, 1 subway, 5552, 0541 commerce
4) 2 nuke plants, 10 baux mines, 5 aluminum refineries, 1 police, 3 hospitals, 3 recycle. 5002
5) (Retired)
6) 1 nuke plant, 1101 civil, 5553
7) 2 nukes, 10 oil, 5 ura, 8 iron, 7 farms, 5 oil, 5002.
8 ) 1 nuke, 1 police, 1 hospital, 3 shopping malls, 2 stadiums, 5553
9) 1 nuke, 1 police, 3 stadiums, 5553
10) (I missed someone but I dont want to recheck it)

What it shows? Half the top pirates in the game currently have passive income. Some even have commerce to possibly offset negative income probably. Mostly everyone has police stations as well. 

Also please do not forget that while bombardment kills non-power, non-military targets, normal ship attacks will still kill military improvements. The best strategy with ships then would be as an improvement killer way cheaper than nukes. First bombard to kill their normal improvements, switch to tactician and do 1 ships to kill their military improvements with a high chance. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Majima Goro
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Lets do some Bombardment math. Lets take someone with 15 cities and 2k infra before the pirating began so they had 40 improvements in each city at the start giving a total of 600 improvements in their nation. 

Lets look at the extreme case of a war exclusively going for bombardments. You can launch 8 naval attacks in the war, 7 can be bombardment after the blockade. This war will kill 14 improvements, lets say you got lucky on the blockade and got an improvement there as well bringing it up to 15. 

Now looking at our pirate nation, lets say their running full military improvements and a back up nuke power plant which gives us a nice round 20 improvements locked up there, so half of their improvements cannot be killed by bombardment (minus that first lucky naval hit). Giving us 300 improvements that can be killed.

That's 22 full wars devoted exclusively to bombardments, over 7 rounds of defensive slotting before resource/commerce improvements have been removed. Mind you these attacks also need to be performed with 75% of the max ships, so the nation performing them is using lots of ammo (gas is reduced on bombardments) and expending a lot of cost in keeping that many ships. 

So in the most extreme case which all of your defensive slots are filled with bombardment exclusive attackers who get lucky on the first naval hit and kill another resource production/commerce it's going to be a while before all those are gone. 

 

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Always keep your foes confused. If they are never sure who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next.
Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you.

scSqPGJ.gif

It's like I'm reading a book and it's a book I deeply love. I'm reading it slowly now so the words are really far apart and the spaces between the words are almost infinite. I can still feel the words of the story, but it's in this endless space between the words I find myself now It's a place that's not of the physical. It's where everything else is. This is where I am now, and who I am.

 

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On 7/7/2021 at 9:35 AM, Prefontaine said:

Treasure Lottery:

  • 50% of the Treasures in the game are marked as "Lottery Treasures".
  • A nation can buy a treasure lottery ticket with 1 credit.
    • A player may only have 5 lottery tickets at a given time.
    • Lottery Tickets roll over to the next cycle if not winners.
  • A player may only win 1 Treasure per cycle.
  • If there are more treasures than lottery ticket holds the treasure is dispersed at random to the whole game population.

 

Please upvote or downvote if you like/dislike these changes

 

Credits are what keep this game running. This is a method to increase credit usage without dramatically impacting the game as treasures are already random and measures are in place from rich alliances gaining too much from accumulating treasures.

The people that will win these treasures are going to be the rich alliances, because they are the ones that can afford to pump credits into the lottery and still have it be cost effective for them.  The only difference here is that instead of rich alliances buying treasures from poor alliances (atleast that is what we do in Grumpy), is that those funds are going to now transition to Sheeps in the form of buying credits.
 

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While I like the energy of bombardment, it feels like it auto hit on destroying improvements. I don't agree with that. It should be a trade off imo. You take the chance of certain % to destroy an improvement but less infra gets destroyed. It can be better chance than just a naval attack    

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2 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Lets do some Bombardment math. Lets take someone with 15 cities and 2k infra before the pirating began so they had 40 improvements in each city at the start giving a total of 600 improvements in their nation. 

Lets look at the extreme case of a war exclusively going for bombardments. You can launch 8 naval attacks in the war, 7 can be bombardment after the blockade. This war will kill 14 improvements, lets say you got lucky on the blockade and got an improvement there as well bringing it up to 15. 

Now looking at our pirate nation, lets say their running full military improvements and a back up nuke power plant which gives us a nice round 20 improvements locked up there, so half of their improvements cannot be killed by bombardment (minus that first lucky naval hit). Giving us 300 improvements that can be killed.

That's 22 full wars devoted exclusively to bombardments, over 7 rounds of defensive slotting before resource/commerce improvements have been removed. Mind you these attacks also need to be performed with 75% of the max ships, so the nation performing them is using lots of ammo (gas is reduced on bombardments) and expending a lot of cost in keeping that many ships. 

So in the most extreme case which all of your defensive slots are filled with bombardment exclusive attackers who get lucky on the first naval hit and kill another resource production/commerce it's going to be a while before all those are gone. 

 

Contrary to popular beliefs, pirates dont always hit inactive nations or nations with low ships.
If you are doing a calculation, lets assume the worst case scenario of 8 wars with max ship people.

At 7 bombardments per war, it is 56 bombardments total
56 bombardments at <1k infra will take away about 112 improvements.

Assume the person is a c10 and had 2k infra which with 5553+1 translates to 19 improvements that can't be destroyed and 21 that can be destroyed per city.
This gives us 210 improvements that can be destroyed in bombardment. 
From the calculations above, in just 1 round, the person lost 112 improvements and only now is their infrastructure down to sub 1000.

Since the infrastructure is down to sub 1000, they will be forced to buy upto 1000 infra again without civil improvements to boost population. 
But lets take the scenario they dont. Now bombardment would kill only 56 improvements per round.
To lose the remaining ~100 improvements, it would take 2 rounds more.

Assuming each round last for 3 days, that's around 9 days to lose out all civil and resource and commerce improvements. Now normal low ship attacks can kill military improvements if the counters/targets go tactician and the pirate is obviously pirate policy.




 

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22 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Members can opt out. Alliance leaders already have the ability to tax a nation up to their full economy, start a war that forces war upon that nation, but having the ability to stop them from trading with someone unless they manually cancel it is too far? I don't buy it. 

Imo, you shouldn't be able to opt out against Alliance Embargoes unless the Alliance allows you, just like how you cant opt out of being taxed in a command economy unless your alliance allows you, or cant opt out of fighting in a war (even if you do, you will be attacked)

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10 minutes ago, Redarmy said:

While I like the energy of bombardment, it feels like it auto hit on destroying improvements. I don't agree with that. It should be a trade off imo. You take the chance of certain % to destroy an improvement but less infra gets destroyed. It can be better chance than just a naval attack    

It is overpowered because of the ways you can use it. It does kill less infra, it uses 50% more munitions and 50% less gas(overall reducing cost), you do lose more units if the opposition has some ships. But bombardment is just a punishment for raiders. I speak from a raider POV but this will also have real bad effects on alliance wars. Not all alliances have the resources to rebuild on day 1 of peace. They might depend on the profits from commerce and resource buildings left over in the previous war to gain some money before they start rebuilding as well. With bombardment, this is basically a dead thing. Plus, even during wars, if the alliance keeps making some resources, the losing party can drag a war to get fairer terms. Now the winning side will just bombard them for ~10 days and poof all their resources are gone. Many would say this is extremely unlikely to happen but the chances are never zero. This has happened earlier and such an update just makes it even easier to be done.

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