Don't Go Breaking My Heart (DoW)

[MinesomeMC]

3 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

> Oasis: Made up of TI and TFP, who dogpiled tCW (by teaming up with Hedge, might I add), then dogpiled TCM (when it literally would've taken only one alliance), then dogpiled Quack (allthough - understandably - in defense of an ally).
> TKR Sphere: Made up of TKR, who was voted most honorable alliance and was willing to create Chaos (essentially the "original" minisphere) and stand being dogpiled for months;
> Rose Sphere: Manipulates people, well known to have other people fight their battles, admits to secret treaties
> Hedge: Intentionally was the smallest sphere for quite some time, enjoys fighting, doesn't try to "dominate" despite being arguably the most competent sphere in the game

And what do we get?
HeDgE mAn BaD, oRaNgE mAn/WoMaN bad.
I might just be stupid, but can someone help me understand here?

Oasis also dogpiled KT and then ended up losing more in damages lmao.

[Charles Bolivar]

Who summoned phoenyx? 🙁

[Phoenyx]

1 minute ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Who summoned phoenyx? 🙁

Can't remember, I was definitely summoned to one of these threads though :-p. 

[Eumirbago]

5 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

To state this once - there was no treaty with Rose.  We entered because we feel it is in our best interest and security to join.  We have been working towards multispheres for a very long time in TI/TFP.  We left Swamp to downsize, we spun off Delta to downsize, we spun off Mystery Inc to downsize - and led to the creation of a game with many more blocs, which adds more dynamic and fun gameplay.  The moves were all made towards a future of multispheres and most of the game seemed on board with that and following suit.  We've invested a lot of time and effort into getting to this point.  The creation of a sphere that has 6 of the top 12 alliances (50%), including the largest and strongest alliances, is a direct contradiction to what we've been working to accomplish.  HM just finished wiping Delta, TKR just got done wiping Swamp - and they together are now wanting to wipe Rose.  We're not going to wait and hope they don't decide we're next.  We are standing up to what we believe the game needs to be.  Those that want to point at Oasis numbers/members are being disingenuous, as half of our members are sub C12.  This sphere of 50% of the game's top alliances is appalling and was completely unnecessary.  

Da !@#$ u on boi?

[BelgiumFury]

My brain when I realize Oasis is comming to save me.
 

[Eumirbago]

6 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

To state this once - there was no treaty with Rose.  We entered because we feel it is in our best interest and security to join.  We have been working towards multispheres for a very long time in TI/TFP.  We left Swamp to downsize, we spun off Delta to downsize, we spun off Mystery Inc to downsize - and led to the creation of a game with many more blocs, which adds more dynamic and fun gameplay.  The moves were all made towards a future of multispheres and most of the game seemed on board with that and following suit.  We've invested a lot of time and effort into getting to this point.  The creation of a sphere that has 6 of the top 12 alliances (50%), including the largest and strongest alliances, is a direct contradiction to what we've been working to accomplish.  HM just finished wiping Delta, TKR just got done wiping Swamp - and they together are now wanting to wipe Rose.  We're not going to wait and hope they don't decide we're next.  We are standing up to what we believe the game needs to be.  Those that want to point at Oasis numbers/members are being disingenuous, as half of our members are sub C12.  This sphere of 50% of the game's top alliances is appalling and was completely unnecessary.  

Let it be known Orbis-wide that if you wanna roll the !@#$ out of Rose, you gotta roll the !@#$ out of this !@#$er too

 

Reminder that he’ll use the veil of “mini-spheres” to protect his entry

Edited May 24, 2021 by Eumirbago

[WarriorSoul]

6 hours ago, Latsu said:

Then you need to learn how to read again, maybe mommy Adrienne can get your lesson books out.

I can't imagine being this mad online all the time. How are you not just so tired?

[Kaz]

7 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

To state this once - there was no treaty with Rose.  We entered because we feel it is in our best interest and security to join.  We have been working towards multispheres for a very long time in TI/TFP.  We left Swamp to downsize, we spun off Delta to downsize, we spun off Mystery Inc to downsize - and led to the creation of a game with many more blocs, which adds more dynamic and fun gameplay.  The moves were all made towards a future of multispheres and most of the game seemed on board with that and following suit.  We've invested a lot of time and effort into getting to this point.  The creation of a sphere that has 6 of the top 12 alliances (50%), including the largest and strongest alliances, is a direct contradiction to what we've been working to accomplish.  HM just finished wiping Delta, TKR just got done wiping Swamp - and they together are now wanting to wipe Rose.  We're not going to wait and hope they don't decide we're next.  We are standing up to what we believe the game needs to be.  Those that want to point at Oasis numbers/members are being disingenuous, as half of our members are sub C12.  This sphere of 50% of the game's top alliances is appalling and was completely unnecessary.  

Well, ya know.  It’s TKR’s way.    Anyone who isn’t part of their false narrative machine knows they have a long, long history of dog piles, paranoia, hegemonic ties, and igniting trillion dollar globals.   They’ve started the last 3 major conflicts in the game.   Started Dial Up too.  I’d rather risk going down swinging vs waiting for Hollywood Money to come after us once everyone else is already wiped out.   Rose as an entity had nothing to do with our decision.  These people are all smart enough to know that unless they live in a hole.   

[Charles Bolivar]

10 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Well, ya know.  It’s TKR’s way.    Anyone who isn’t part of their false narrative machine knows they have a long, long history of dog piles, paranoia, hegemonic ties, and igniting trillion dollar globals.   They’ve started the last 3 major conflicts in the game.   Started Dial Up too.  I’d rather risk going down swinging vs waiting for Hollywood Money to come after us once everyone else is already wiped out.   Rose as an entity had nothing to do with our decision.  These people are all smart enough to know that unless they live in a hole.   

I think you have TKR confused with NPO?

[Raphael]

7 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

To state this once - there was no treaty with Rose.  We entered because we feel it is in our best interest and security to join.  We have been working towards multispheres for a very long time in TI/TFP.  We left Swamp to downsize, we spun off Delta to downsize, we spun off Mystery Inc to downsize - and led to the creation of a game with many more blocs, which adds more dynamic and fun gameplay.  The moves were all made towards a future of multispheres and most of the game seemed on board with that and following suit.  We've invested a lot of time and effort into getting to this point.  The creation of a sphere that has 6 of the top 12 alliances (50%), including the largest and strongest alliances, is a direct contradiction to what we've been working to accomplish.  HM just finished wiping Delta, TKR just got done wiping Swamp - and they together are now wanting to wipe Rose.  We're not going to wait and hope they don't decide we're next.  We are standing up to what we believe the game needs to be.  Those that want to point at Oasis numbers/members are being disingenuous, as half of our members are sub C12.  This sphere of 50% of the game's top alliances is appalling and was completely unnecessary.  

You ditched Swamp (solid move) and Camelot ditched you. Don't try to put yourself up on the cross for PnW because you did some actual FA a couple times. Your no-cb hit on us, combined with your efforts to spin us into "the new hegemony" despite the facts and the data being shown, clearly shows this is a self-interested realpolitik move.

Good for you, you did a Politick. Don't try to spin it into your hero's tale though.

[Lord Tyrion]

1 minute ago, Roberts said:

You ditched Swamp (solid move) and Camelot ditched you. Don't try to put yourself up on the cross for PnW because you did some actual FA a couple times. Your no-cb hit on us, combined with your efforts to spin us into "the new hegemony" despite the facts and the data being shown, clearly shows this is a self-interested realpolitik move.

Good for you, you did a Politick. Don't try to spin it into your hero's tale though.

I don't recall you being in our discussions with Camelot and that being our plan the entire time, which we let the other spheres know about day one.  Next time speak up when you're in those chats with us.  

[Raphael]

27 minutes ago, Lord Tyrion said:

I don't recall you being in our discussions with Camelot and that being our plan the entire time, which we let the other spheres know about day one.  Next time speak up when you're in those chats with us.  

Way to dodge, per usual. 😎 

Next time speak up with some content.

[Lord Tyrion]

Just now, Roberts said:

Way to dodge, per usual. 😎 

Next time speak up with some content.

I explained my position in my original post.  Do I need to write the same thing out to you again?  And I never used the word hegemony, that was your own projecting.

[Raphael]

Just now, Lord Tyrion said:

I explained my position in my original post.  Do I need to write the same thing out to you again?  And I never used the word hegemony, that was your own projecting.

I'm well aware of how careful you are not to ever directly implicate yourself in anything. Unfortunately, that's not how accountability works on a team. When James and the team are running around to anyone who will listen telling the tale of the new hegemony "EMC 2.0" when the reality is our new sphere is a competitively-sized group, you're still part of that narrative.

Spinning is still spinning in 2021, even if you have other people do it for you.

[Arkin]

8 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Also I think you're mistaken, Latsu. I learned proudly from daddy Tyrion.

So LT really is Darth Sidious? 😲

[Lord Tyrion]

5 minutes ago, Roberts said:

I'm well aware of how careful you are not to ever directly implicate yourself in anything. Unfortunately, that's not how accountability works on a team. When James and the team are running around to anyone who will listen telling the tale of the new hegemony "EMC 2.0" when the reality is our new sphere is a competitively-sized group, you're still part of that narrative.

Spinning is still spinning in 2021, even if you have other people do it for you.

I've yet to see anybody not involved in Hollywood come out and say "oh cool, this is good for the game".  It's basically the entire rest of the game that feels the same way about this.  How you all want to justify 6 of the top 12 alliances together and put your blinders on about the politics of that, that's on you.  I don't need to craft a narrative, they have already firmly established it through action.

[Raphael]

2 minutes ago, Lord Tyrion said:

I've yet to see anybody not involved in Hollywood come out and say "oh cool, this is good for the game".  It's basically the entire rest of the game that feels the same way about this.  How you all want to justify 6 of the top 12 alliances together and put your blinders on about the politics of that, that's on you.  I don't need to craft a narrative, they have already firmly established it through action.

I see you've been watching US politics the past four years. "Everyone is saying it!" Solid evidence, solid argument.

The reason it's a narrative is precisely because you are crafting it. "6 out of the top 12" ?

How about your 2 out of the top 5, compared to our 1/5? Or your 3 out of the top 6, compared to our 1/6 (until recently)? It's a bad metric, alongside a series of bad metrics that you and your team keep pulling from a hat to point at and stir up controversy. 

We're a competitively-sized sphere and that offends the other two competitively-sized spheres.

[Cooper_]

9 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

To state this once - there was no treaty with Rose.  We entered because we feel it is in our best interest and security to join. 

In what way was there a security reason?  We've been nothing but nice to y'all, and I know that Ben has gone way out of his way to appease you guys despite what happened during Duck Hunt.  We had no reason to hit you given that the reason we're hitting Rose is unique to Rose and quite obvious: the secret treaties that only they activated and had lectured us before about during KF. 

I'd be interested to see the evidence of the threat TKR posed to TI.  Iirc we were quite forward and trusting to y'all with our OPSEC, including our breakup plans and war intentions.  I don't see how an enemy-aligned sphere would do any of what we did with y'all.  Same story with TFP who has known us for even longer. 

There is no security interest besides what looks like a way to break meta norms and interfere in another war to damage another sphere. 

9 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

We have been working towards multispheres for a very long time in TI/TFP.  We left Swamp to downsize, we spun off Delta to downsize, we spun off Mystery Inc to downsize - and led to the creation of a game with many more blocs, which adds more dynamic and fun gameplay.  The moves were all made towards a future of multispheres and most of the game seemed on board with that and following suit. 

Having been in what was still the only real minisphere up to this point--chaos--y'all have not once made a minisphere.  You do the same process, rinse and repeat, of creating a sphere and then filling it with tons of treaties that routinely makes you the largest bloc.  Just because you recycle and renew treaties with various alliances, that doesn't make you moving towards minispheres.  Despite all of your moves, you're essentially in a similar position as before give how other spheres have downsized too.  Hollywood relative to Quack is quite similar in ratio to this version of Oasis to what it was pre-Mystery split. 

We can cut the grandstanding here because y'all haven't done anything more than anyone else.  In fact, the only wars you have been in are dogpiles in your favor including the use of secret treaties, which does more damage for the meta than Quack, Oasis, or any largest sphere could ever do.  Now, you enter into an unrelated war with no legitimate CB, and ironically 1.6:1 in your favor is the closest war in your alliance's history post-NPOLT.  It's a bit ridiculous at this point, and you don't have legs to stand on to criticize others. 

And those others are doing something extremely dynamic for the game by choosing to work with what they considered to be their enemies just a month ago.  We're the ones who have created new politics and changed up relationships.  We expected things to change and for people to react.  That's because we formed Hollywood (who ftr is not the largest sphere nor really uncontested in the upper tier).  I can't say the same for Oasis.

9 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

The creation of a sphere that has 6 of the top 12 alliances (50%), including the largest and strongest alliances, is a direct contradiction to what we've been working to accomplish

This sounds a bit like cherrypicking.  I posted a tiering chart in one of my previous posts.  We are significantly smaller in both nations and city counts than other spheres.  At the C30+ range, we have 52, syndi has 47, and Rose has 45.  I'd also point out that our alliance rankings would be lower if y'all didn't choose hide score in training alliances with members that we keep on the main AA.  This is entirely disingenuous, and any somewhat objective viewpoint will tell you that Hollywood is a significant downsize from Quack and Oasis as well as not even close to the largest threat.

9 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

HM just finished wiping Delta, TKR just got done wiping Swamp - and they together are now wanting to wipe Rose.  We're not going to wait and hope they don't decide we're next.  We are standing up to what we believe the game needs to be.

Delta started the conflict with HM, Swamp gave out a free CB with intentions to hit our ally, TO, and Rose had made the worst FA move in years during Duck Hunt.  The rationales for each conflict are clear.  It doesn't seem like we're going around picking spheres at random.  This is a moot point, and there's no call to action for a sphere simply responding to the politics in front of it and acting normally.

If you do actually believe in multipolar worlds, I'd suggest that making it seem like y'all have a secret treaty or at least a relationship that acts like an effective secret treaty isn't that.  No FA team who is concerned for the meta would even consider such a move because they'd know that if even if there intentions were in the right place, it'd be seen as something else.  That doesn't even begin to touch on how wrong both narratives you present about Delta and Hollywood's size.

1 hour ago, Kaz said:

Well, ya know.  It’s TKR’s way.    Anyone who isn’t part of their false narrative machine knows they have a long, long history of dog piles, paranoia, hegemonic ties, and igniting trillion dollar globals.   They’ve started the last 3 major conflicts in the game.   Started Dial Up too.  I’d rather risk going down swinging vs waiting for Hollywood Money to come after us once everyone else is already wiped out.   Rose as an entity had nothing to do with our decision.  These people are all smart enough to know that unless they live in a hole.   

I feel like we're missing the context of clear CBs for all of these wars.  Sphinx leaked twice and then we had Swamp leaks.  I suppose we could've let TcW and BK roll us during rebuild after Surf's Up, or just waited a few months to get rolled even harder during Duck Hunt, or let TLE try to hit our closest ally...  This is just such a silly post that I can't take it seriously.  If you're actually being straight-up here, next time TKR won't sit 9 months with you fighting NPO because it's the "TKR way."

I'd suggest running tiering and sphere comparisons and looking at political context before throwing out that we're such a threat to y'all or that we're heading your way.  We've been more than responsive with your leadership about our intentions not to mention that our tiering is not at all conducive to hitting you effectively unless you consider Tyrion's single nation to be your sphere.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Cooper_

[Kevanovia]

10 hours ago, Latsu said:

Yes forum votes when the forums are and were majority TKR/Quack at the time definitely carry weight, ok North Korea very democratic.

Conveniently ignored HM during the rolling segment of your message, remember when they asked a bloc with an average memeber size of around 9 cities for 2.5bil reps? Obv a pillar of morality and fair play.

Tell me how long that war lasted. Also, pray tell, how much in reps did they pay? The Johnsons were extremely aggressive in the negotiation gc (as well as in other mediums) and also were trying to get peace on day 1. We didn’t want to peace out day 1, but also knew we weren’t going to drag the war out. We put out a number because they asked “what it would take”. For the first day of war, that was our number. I also let Dave know in private that no money was actually expected. I also originally extended our hand to help with whatever they needed going forward (help with image/advice/etc). So stop with this faux outrage of “how Johnsons were treated”. It’s a bullshit narrative.

With that said, if you omit Oasis’s garbage narrative - this is a decent political move by Tyrion & Friends. Do something to appear that you’re no longer in Rose’s pocket, snag a better narrative and it would arguably be one of the better moves of 2021.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Kevanovia

[Latsu]

7 hours ago, Arln Nen said:

 Preempting an attack that was never going to happen. I was with Swamp in Duck Hunt. We had a valid CB since TCW, our direct ally was attacked. I'm fairly certain everyone in Hollywood is aware of this. Rose was the one with nothing to go on and refusing to give quack a valid CB the entire war. 

You're pretty sure TKR and friends are aware there was a valid CB for Swamp? Are you sure you're thinking about the same disingenuous chodes I am? We all remember the salt fest on the forums, ignoring it doesn't change reality.

[Kamala Khan]

1 hour ago, Lord Tyrion said:

I've yet to see anybody not involved in Hollywood come out and say "oh cool, this is good for the game". 

Look harder.

[Latsu]

3 hours ago, WarriorSoul said:

I can't imagine being this mad online all the time. How are you not just so tired?

Don't worry someone already cried to our FA that I mentioned her, I won't speak of the golden idol again you guys.

And really? Can't be mad on the forums? Let me go back and forth with an old friend like Vader for a little. Also, sorry we didn't let this place become an evhochamber for you all to pat eachother on the back in. I know it must be tragic to see folks defend themselves publically.

[Adrienne]

9 minutes ago, Latsu said:

You're pretty sure TKR and friends are aware there was a valid CB for Swamp? Are you sure you're thinking about the same disingenuous chodes I am? We all remember the salt fest on the forums, ignoring it doesn't change reality.

Nor does it change that you can't read apparently. Yes, we're aware of why Swamp entered the last conflict. The "salt fest" was over Rose's entry and the secret treaty between Swamp and Rose, which was confirmed multiple times. That was very consistent all throughout last war. Ignoring that doesn't change reality either

3 minutes ago, Latsu said:

Don't worry someone already cried to our FA that I mentioned her, I won't speak of the golden idol again you guys.

🙄

Edited May 24, 2021 by Adrienne

[Latsu]

12 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

Tell me how long that war lasted. Also, pray tell, how much in reps did they pay? The Johnsons were extremely aggressive in the negotiation gc (as well as in other mediums) and also were trying to get peace on day 1. We didn’t want to peace out day 1, but also knew we weren’t going to drag the war out. We put out a number because they asked “what it would take”. For the first day of war, that was our number. I also let Dave know in private that no money was actually expected. I also originally extended our hand to help with whatever they needed going forward (help with image/advice/etc). So stop with this faux outrage of “how Johnsons were treated”. It’s a bullshit narrative.

With that said, if you omit Oasis’s garbage narrative - this is a decent political move by Tyrion & Friends. Do something to appear that you’re no longer in Rose’s pocket, snag a better narrative and it would arguably be one of the better moves of 2021.

Denial is a hell of a drug isn't it, it's ok if you want to be the bad guys, just own that buddy.

Must be nice being able to reply to folks knowing they can't reply back

[Phoenyx]

54 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

Delta started the conflict with HM,

I really don't think so. Oblivion was quite funny with its thread over in Orbis Central, but speaking as an FA member of Delta we were told that Oblivion had no interest in peace talks, so we were essentially forced to go to war with them to uphold our reputation as defending each other. Since Oblivion was part of HM, they then attacked us. I'm happy we were able to work out a peace resolution fairly quickly, because our upper tier (and for Delta, even I'm upper tier) was getting seriously hurt, but it doesn't change the fact that it's clearly a war we never wanted.