Cherise Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/28/2021 at 5:49 PM, Charles Bolivar said: Adrienne is from TKR...she knows better than most the nature of personal grudges. The TKR-NPO rivalry was born from an entirely personal grudge in this instance which didn't even have its roots in this game but stems from another world where a particular person who shall not be named developed a deep seated grievance against a few of TKR's founders which carried over into this realm. This same person carried a similar set of grudges against early syndicate members too now that I think on it. You are right to make a distinction between ingame and IRL grudges. My point however is, due to both being inherently personal, the end result is much the same. It's no surprise after all, people make things personal because well...we are all persons at the end of the day. And whilst I applaud these amongst us who aspire to this world being free of "personal drama" affecting the general meta of the game, I am doubtful of it amounting to much considering the sheer level of toxicity and nasty drama which has almost been a near present factor. Isn't human nature just grand? All happened years ago, when Roquentin (he's not banned anymore, but has vanished) ended up being used as a scapegoat by an organization (in another game) some TKR founders were apart of, as well as subject to out-of-game harassment (I forget whether the respective TKR members ever apologized for that, although officially they were against that particular set of actions). In another game, apparently, the particular person supposedly spent his time using his political influence to sideline some of the TKR founders. In this game, it was perceived that the party involved was getting back at him by sidelining and neutralizing him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cherise said: All happened years ago, when Roquentin (he's not banned anymore, but has vanished) ended up being used as a scapegoat by an organization (in another game) some TKR founders were apart of, as well as subject to out-of-game harassment (I forget whether the respective TKR members ever apologized for that, although officially they were against that particular set of actions). In another game, apparently, the particular person supposedly spent his time using his political influence to sideline some of the TKR founders. In this game, it was perceived that the party involved was getting back at him by sidelining and neutralizing him. Kind of amusing how I didn't even have to mention that particular person's name for you to figure out who I we referring to. Needless to say, however, that particular person pursued a grudge against an alliance in an entirely different game consisting of a handful of members from the other game for I think nearly 8 years after the initial issue occurred. Members who I might add, were not even directly involved in what went down. It might actually be more than 8 years now that I think on it. My memory of the events I witnessed over the initial fallout which went on for at least a year are starting to become a bit hazy after all this time. But needless to say, this game's meta being adversely personal is nothing new. The personal grudges have dominated this world's state of play from pretty much day one and I don't see it changing any time soon unfortunately. In the mean time, however, blowing stuff up is just as fun. Edited March 31, 2021 by Charles Bolivar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namukara Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Since this is a 'clarification' on kt, I'd be interested to know which categories we all fit into. Namely, am I a sycophant (if so for who), a basement troll, an edgelord or a common garden troll? What I think happened is that I left TI because I wanted a change of scenery, joined kt and enjoyed it, and I'd rather my time not be spent countering for people because there are people in this game who cannot accept that others have differing opinions to them. I will though, if that's what I need to do, but really if we could all act like we're above the minimum age to play then that would be preferable. In short: KT not all nazis, don't attack kt because I want city 29. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 14 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said: Kind of amusing how I didn't even have to mention that particular person's name for you to figure out who I we referring to. Needless to say, however, that particular person pursued a grudge against an alliance in an entirely different game consisting of a handful of members from the other game for I think nearly 8 years after the initial issue occurred. Members who I might add, were not even directly involved in what went down. It might actually be more than 8 years now that I think on it. My memory of the events I witnessed over the initial fallout which went on for at least a year are starting to become a bit hazy after all this time. But needless to say, this game's meta being adversely personal is nothing new. The personal grudges have dominated this world's state of play from pretty much day one and I don't see it changing any time soon unfortunately. In the mean time, however, blowing stuff up is just as fun. Ok, I need you guys to start naming names, because I am completely lost here. 8 years ago Roq was running Umbrella, and had nothing to do with NPO. I know this because I was allied to umbrella and had to work with Roq as the leader of umbrella in a bunch of wars, which honestly he was kind of a pain in the ass to deal with back then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: Ok, I need you guys to start naming names, because I am completely lost here. 8 years ago Roq was running Umbrella, and had nothing to do with NPO. I know this because I was allied to umbrella and had to work with Roq as the leader of umbrella in a bunch of wars, which honestly he was kind of a pain in the ass to deal with back then. Roq and IC/Az had issues when they were Umbrella/MK(?) iirc. At least I think that's what he's getting at. I don't know the full story/details. Edited March 31, 2021 by Adrienne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherise Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Adrienne said: Roq and IC/Az had issues when they were Umbrella/MK(?) iirc. At least I think that's what he's getting at. I don't know the full story/details. IIRC Rapmanej dragged out a now 10 year old audio recording regarding another game while Roquentin was having an adverse reaction to drugs prescribed by his doctor and Rapmanej edited it out of context, so yeah. Otherwise, won't comment on this anymore. Edited March 31, 2021 by Cherise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Cherise said: IIRC Rapmanej dragged out a now 10 year old audio recording regarding another game while Roquentin was having an adverse reaction to drugs prescribed by his doctor and edited out of context, so yeah. Otherwise, won't comment on this anymore. Ah that, ok I'm back on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Cherise said: IIRC Rapmanej dragged out a now 10 year old audio recording regarding another game while Roquentin was having an adverse reaction to drugs prescribed by his doctor and Rapmanej edited it out of context, so yeah. Otherwise, won't comment on this anymore. That wasn't what Charles was talking about though, that was a more recent thing from NPOLT. Those two things aren't related/didn't involve the same people or groups outside of Roq. Edited March 31, 2021 by Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherise Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Adrienne said: That wasn't what Charles was talking about though, that was a more recent thing from NPOLT. Those two things aren't related/didn't involve the same people or groups outside of Roq. According to your professed statements, I'm more aware of what you're talking about than you are. I'm commenting on other things that have gone personal / OOC. Edited March 31, 2021 by Cherise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Cherise said: According to your professed statements, I'm more aware of what you're talking about than you are. I'm commenting on other things that have gone personal / OOC. I'm talking about CN things, not PnW things. If you're suddenly going to switch gears back into PnW things, give us a warning lol. Edited March 31, 2021 by Adrienne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: Ok, I need you guys to start naming names, because I am completely lost here. 8 years ago Roq was running Umbrella, and had nothing to do with NPO. I know this because I was allied to umbrella and had to work with Roq as the leader of umbrella in a bunch of wars, which honestly he was kind of a pain in the ass to deal with back then. The beef between roq and the members who were in MK and later founded TKR started when roq was still in umbrella (before he left umbrella and later returned to it). As far as I know, roq was never in CN's NPO. I stopped playing CN around 2015 so he may have joined CN NPO afterwards but up until 2015 at least he was not a member of NPO. Indeed, he had a bit of a rivalry with NPO before that date. I'm thinking this event might have occurred around mid 2011? Edited March 31, 2021 by Charles Bolivar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Adrienne said: That wasn't what Charles was talking about though, that was a more recent thing from NPOLT. Those two things aren't related/didn't involve the same people or groups outside of Roq. Adrienne is correct. The grudge Roq had with TKR due to stems from past CN issues and arguably clouded relations from NPO's founding. The audio recording is linked though since it originates from the period when roq had left umbrella and when he was blaming MK and NPO at the time for various issues. It's from that time period that the grudge which would eventually develop against TKR actually originates. Reposting it against during NPOLT didn't help though. So yeah, grudges are just bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 25 minutes ago, Charles Bolivar said: Adrienne is correct. The grudge Roq had with TKR due to stems from past CN issues and arguably clouded relations from NPO's founding. The audio recording is linked though since it originates from the period when roq had left umbrella and when he was blaming MK and NPO at the time for various issues. It's from that time period that the grudge which would eventually develop against TKR actually originates. Reposting it against during NPOLT didn't help though. So yeah, grudges are just bad. Thanks for filling in that gap. Even with it being linked though, it wasn't TKR/IC/Az that did that during NPOLT like Inst seems to be implying with his earlier statements and the folks that did circulate it didn't realize the context of it and immediately removed it once they were told about it and apologized. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherise Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 Rapmanej was around during the time the recording was made (and that incident was hilarious), so I find it hard to believe he wasn't aware of what he made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, Cherise said: Rapmanej was around during the time the recording was made (and that incident was hilarious), so I find it hard to believe he wasn't aware of what he made. Rapmanej wasn't the one who made (or at least circulated) the actual end content afaik and isn't who I'm referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) I can't remember who made the original audio recording back then tbh. I remember hearing a few of the calls when they occurred since I think it may have been on brehon's public voice call discussion thingy he used to do. Edited March 31, 2021 by Charles Bolivar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosmokenny Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 KKKT are not all nazis. KKKT have plenty of them. Everyone in KKKT is at the very least a sympathizer. Their shit has been told to admin time and time again for 4 years, and admin decided not to do anything. All admins are at the very least sympathizers. There is no moral leeway with naziism. If you are not against it, you allow it, and thus are for it. Good job being for it, morons. 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) On 4/5/2021 at 9:26 AM, kosmokenny said: KKKT are not all nazis. KKKT have plenty of them. Everyone in KKKT is at the very least a sympathizer. Their shit has been told to admin time and time again for 4 years, and admin decided not to do anything. All admins are at the very least sympathizers. There is no moral leeway with naziism. If you are not against it, you allow it, and thus are for it. Good job being for it, morons. Nazis are bad because they embrace and embody extreme fascist behaviors, such as (but not limited to) endorsing the degradation and annihilation of any creed but their own. Ironically enough, that means that your "with my extremist views or else literal !@#$" is a very fascist stance you've got there. I would suggest you back away from fascism, but you do you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited April 7, 2021 by Sir Scarfalot 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 49 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said: Nazis are bad because they embrace and embody extreme fascist behaviors, such as (but not limited to) endorsing the degradation and annihilation of any creed but their own. Ironically enough, that means that your "with my extremist views or else literal !@#$" is a very fascist stance you've got there. I would suggest you back away from fascism, but you do you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Yes, the height of atrocities committed by fascists over the past century is that of silencing extremist ideologies 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said: Yes, the height of atrocities committed by fascists over the past century is that of silencing extremist ideologies 🤣 Amongst many, many other things yes. Such as their brutal and unforgivable "silencing" of Jewish ideologies for a start. Though yes, you're right in that @kosmokenny's position is a lot closer to Stalin's fascism of "kill anyone that doesn't comply, then kill anyone that's remotely associated with them, then kill anyone remotely associated with those" than Naziism, though either way he's close. I'd certainly like to see both of you head liberal-ways, it's a lot less toxic over here. Edited April 7, 2021 by Sir Scarfalot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said: Amongst many, many other things yes. Such as their brutal and unforgivable "silencing" of Jewish ideologies for a start. Though yes, you're right in that @kosmokenny's position is a lot closer to Stalin's fascism of "kill anyone that doesn't comply, then kill anyone that's remotely associated with them, then kill anyone remotely associated with those" than Naziism, though either way he's close. I'd certainly like to see both of you head liberal-ways, it's a lot less toxic over here. What about mossad's hunting down of Nazis post WW2? Does that qualify as fascism lite behaviour? Plus I wouldn't equate the genocide inflicted on the Jewish people as silencing. Might be just me who feels that way but it just doesn't really describe the true horror of what occurred 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said: What about mossad's hunting down of Nazis post WW2? Does that qualify as fascism lite behaviour? Plus I wouldn't equate the genocide inflicted on the Jewish people as silencing. Might be just me who feels that way but it just doesn't really describe the true horror of what occurred 👍 Terrorists hunting people down and murdering them for their beliefs sounds rather similar to terrorists hunting people down and murdering them for their beliefs, yes. In case you hadn't remembered, one of the chief weapons Nazis used was the dehumanization of their rivals. Turning it back on them doesn't actually make it not a fascist behavior. And sure, the genocide is indeed a very well understood fact of history that goes without saying sufficiently to be described in little more than scare quotes, but thank you for reiterating it. I'm sure you've got plenty more historical trivias to reiterate, so I'll go ahead and let you do that until you've satisfied your urge to feel like the smartest person in the chat. Edited April 7, 2021 by Sir Scarfalot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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