Prefontaine Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said: It certainly should, if it is to go through. And yes, it should be pinned to city count rather than navy possessed or drydocks possessed at hand because otherwise it'd be easily gamed. Added to the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, MBaku said: I think a minimum number of ships could work, but 50% is pretty big - I'd like to see something more like 1/6 or half your ships if you're running 1 drydock each city. But also, lots of folks just run no ships at all, especially last global. This would make ships important and necessary all the time and could make the meta shift towards aquiring naval superiority in globals - if that's the goal. I think the problem is that it's too hard to get naval superiority if you're losing because whoever can keep air superiority can also dominate navy. It's pretty much impossible to win in the air if you're dogpiled. Losing 16 improvements per war or 42 per cycle will speed up large conflicts a lot. Also, how guaranteed are the improvement destruction for non-IT hits? I think a moderate success could be one improvement and the rest should be none. Eh, the 75% he mentioned tied to city count is good enough. Make it too cheap and it's just overpowered due to the value of the improvements being destroyed. Especially considering that currently, best case scenario is a 60% chance if you have tactician and the other guy has pirate. Considering that the loss of military improvements would force a beat down nation to respec to something lower and lose it's economic improvements, it's only fair that it costs the winning party a fair bit to cause such destruction in the first place. Especially since I suspect a bunch of it would be done as nations go down and are in the process of losing their infra either way. And you already would have an avenue to maximize imps destroyed while minimizing infra damage dealt right there if the requirement was any lower. Edited February 19, 2021 by Shiho Nishizumi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaku Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said: Eh, the 75% he mentioned tied to city count is good enough. Make it too cheap and it's just overpowered due to the value of the improvements being destroyed. Especially considering that currently, best case scenario is a 60% chance if you have tactician and the other guy has pirate. Considering that the loss of military improvements would force a beat down nation to respec to something lower and lose it's economic improvements, it's only fair that it costs the winning party a fair bit to cause such destruction in the first place. Especially since I suspect a bunch of it would be done as nations go down and are in the process of losing their infra either way. And you already would have an avenue to maximize imps destroyed while minimizing infra damage dealt right there if the requirement was any lower. I think if it's tied to city count, folks can lose the ability to field 75% quickly with the ability to destroy improvements increasing. It also doesn't divide easily since there's only 3 drydocks per city. 66% should be the highest considered, or 2 drydocks per city. If you get knocked down below that, you'll need to rebuild something to get back the bombardment ability. I don't think the ability to destroy improvements don't need to be super expensive. The improvements themselves are super cheap to replace. And missiles don't cost nearly that much. That's why i'm more in favor of something more like 1/6 or even 1/3 of max ships based on city counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeTP Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Prefontaine said: New Projects Logistics Center Effect: Opens an additional trade route for Commodities Cost Cash: $5,000,000 Food: 25,000 Uranium: 5,000 Aluminum: 5,000 World Trade Organization Effect: Opens an additional trade route for Commodities Requirements: International Trade Center, Logistics Center, Space Program Cost Cash: $20,000,000 Food: 250,000 Uranium: 15,000 Aluminum: 10,000 Gasoline: 10,000 I don't see the point of these projects? Trade is currently unrestricted except for embargos. What is the benefit of the additional trade routes? What is the first trade route? Edited February 19, 2021 by LukeTP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, LukeTP said: I don't see the point of these projects? Trade is currently unrestricted except for embargos. What is the benefit of the additional trade routes? What is the first trade route? please refer to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 59 minutes ago, MBaku said: I think if it's tied to city count, folks can lose the ability to field 75% quickly with the ability to destroy improvements increasing. It also doesn't divide easily since there's only 3 drydocks per city. 66% should be the highest considered, or 2 drydocks per city. If you get knocked down below that, you'll need to rebuild something to get back the bombardment ability. I don't think the ability to destroy improvements don't need to be super expensive. The improvements themselves are super cheap to replace. And missiles don't cost nearly that much. That's why i'm more in favor of something more like 1/6 or even 1/3 of max ships based on city counts. People who are bombarding are very well capable of fielding such, because if you're spending MAP's bombarding you've already got it in the bag. Meaning, the ships aren't actually at risk of being sunk. I don't see a problem with it not being perfectly round, since it could just be rounded up or down. Much the same way how PB works (you aren't recruiting 1.1 ships, for example). It'd also be going off the value of 15 ships rather than 3 drydocks. You'd be surprised at the value of having to reslot the improvements time and again (me knowing that because they make for good nuke cash in a pinch). And the response also doesn't address the loss of output in cases where you need to refit cities to something 800 infra spec or something of sorts. Which definitely ought to be factored in when balancing this since it's a long term productivity loss being incurred. Missiles don't cost as much, but they also can be ID blocked, kill less imps given the same MAP's, can be spied to be removed, etc. It's nonetheless a massive increase w.r.t. imp killing compared to the previous value; especially at higher infra values. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmp15 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Prefontaine said: All alliance roles will come with a check list for which powers those positions have. Bank Access Changing Roles Ability to see spy counts Ability to see daily reset timers (time zones) Editing Tax Brackets Accept new members View member caches Add this one first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUT Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I just want to use a heavy GIF on my nation desc without both breaking the GIF and the custom description edit page. Quote Sultan of United Ummah, Head of Foreign Affairs.Inshallah, I will get some sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Juan Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Prefontaine said: please refer to this thread. Still don't see the point of commodities, just seems like CN-lite. But most of the other things are nice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Majima Goro Posted February 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Prefontaine said: City/Project Timers New City timers are not effected by projects. New Protects have their own timer of 10 days (120 turns) City timer resets are reduced by 1 credit to 3 credits. Project timer resets cost 1 credit. I personally feel that the reduction in credit prices to get new projects will help whales more than new nations. I'm going to be neutral on this and see what the others have to say about it. 5 hours ago, Prefontaine said: Spies Casualties Spy vs Spy casualties are reduced by 33% for the defender on a successful op, and attacker for a failed op. Missiles Spy attacks against missiles have a 25% chance to destroy an additional missile. If I'm not wrong, a 60v60 without buffs takes out 18 spies at most. This nerf means we lose only 12 spies in a 60v60. On the other hand, firstly what do you mean by Failed OP. Is it when you fail to kill spies and are caught? Kill spies and are caught? Fail to kill spies and are not caught? Secondly, atm, you lose 9ish spies on a failed op when detected at most. The nerf means we lose 6 spies now. I'm only against the second part of this change over here. Defending against spy attacks is way more difficult when in a blitz. So keep the causalities for failed attacking ops as is. The Missiles thing tho. I've seen a few people pitch out that ID needs to reduce missile damage to 50% rather than block out the missile all together. If you are game for that, I'm game for this. 6 hours ago, Prefontaine said: Soldiers 5% increase is casualties from soldiers fighting soldiers. 33% reduction in tanks killed by soldiers. Soldier only attacks/defends kill too many tanks. Tanks Tanks ability to kill planes after gaining ground superiority reduced by 33% 15% increase in casualties to soldiers by tanks 10% increase in casualties to tanks by tanks With soldiers killing less tanks For the longest time, soldiers had been the weakest units in-game. However with the causality updates, that was overturned, making soldiers an extremely good defensive measure. They were nerfed once when tank costs got reduced to half(reducing their damage to half as well) and now we are reducing that by another 33%? This will only ever help the bigger, wealthier side of the game like all the other war-mechanics updates that have been made since NPOLT. Such changes help "Dumb, Herd" play and heavily nerf the "Intelligent, Innovative" play, a feature that has been steadily moving away from the game. Other than this, I'd like to propose something for the "Flying Tanks Update". Let us not fix the % of planes killed to be exactly 40% or 50% or 30%. How about having them as a ratio? 1c v 1c example: With the static 40% planes killed figure, a GA will always wipe out 6 planes per hit. However if we add in a factor of 40% times (Current Planes/Max Planes), this figure will keep decreasing after the first hits. In fact, imo, this should be done to all units so that you lose units proportionally to your army at that moment. 6 hours ago, Prefontaine said: Planes 25% increase in tanks killed by bombing runs. 10% increase in planes killed by dogfights Yes, this is a much needed fix to the planes. Thank you. 6 hours ago, Prefontaine said: Ships 10% increase in ships killed by ships. New Attack Type: Bombardment When a nation is blockaded naval units can bombard a city instead of performing a naval battle. This attack destroys 33% less infrastructure This attack destroys 2 non-power plant improvements in that city This attack costs 50% less gas to perform. This attack costs 50% more munitions to perform If a bombardment attack happens while the defending nation has defending ships, the casualties caused by those defending ships is increased 25%. Example: If you attack with 200 ships and they have 50 ships defending and those 50 ships were going to kill 20 attacking ships, in a bombardment attack they instead would kill 25 ships. You must use at least 75% of your max navy when performing this attack max navy is determined by the number ships you could have if all of your cities had max dry docks, not how many dry docks you current have I have massive problems with the Bombardment Option. The guaranteed ability to kill improvements is a big downside to smaller groups in a war. You can basically wipe out their improvements while sitting on them, forcing them to keep rebuying infra to be able to fight back, something they are already unable to do. You are also making this extremely cost-effective way for the aggressors who can kill improvements for pennies. This sounds like the "Flying Planes Update" but on every drug known to mankind. Something you yourself will make "patches" to once you see it in action. 6 hours ago, Prefontaine said: Iron Dome Reduces the amount of improvements killed from a missile by 1. In addition to normal effeccts Vital Defense System Chance to block a nuclear missile increased from 20% to 25% Reduces the amount of improvements killed from a nuke by 1. The improvement category this blocks from is the non-power plant, non-military category. I already told you about the ID thing earlier in this huge assessment. Please re-read that. Thank you. As for the VDS, I have a suggestion. Even if the VDS blocks out the nuke, allow for the nation to experience "nuclear fallout". I'll explain it here. Since we assume the nuke is blocked mid-air, all the radiation and such should still affect pollution levels. This can be realized by polluting the city as if an actual nuke were to fall on the city. Other than this, I'd once again like to pitch out that we need to balance out the score system more and if possible, before the next global(in around 2 months).Plus, all these things MUST BE TESTED on the TEST SERVER. PLEASE DO NOT PUSH THEM LIVE WITHOUT TESTING FIRST. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiWilliam Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, Majima Goro said: Plus, all these things MUST BE TESTED on the TEST SERVER. PLEASE DO NOT PUSH THEM LIVE WITHOUT TESTING FIRST. I can't think of a single update ever to ever happen in the history of updates from the development of the ASCII standard to the final spec design of the newest wifi v12 AI brain waves, that would not benefit from testing on a test server first. Don't get me started on the test server itself, but small incremental steps towards a proper & good SOP for new feature introduction would make my doki doki go very heart. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGhost Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 11 hours ago, Cooper_ said: Suggestion here to change the 50% chance to block to a 50% reduction in damage This would be a huge buff to missiles but not for people getting sat on. An infra damage reduction is so insignificant in an actual war especially against people who are sitting on you, who are presumably your defensive slots. If you are getting sat on I’m going to assume they are declaring ord or raid wars. 50% infra dmg reduction here is literally a joke, plus as you mentioned this would actually buff the infra dmg done. by making this change you are implementing a mechanic which would guarantee 18 resistance worth of damage with 0 counter play. Anyone who is good at fighting in dogpiles or is a good pirate will tell you how many times a guaranteed 18 resistance dmg would’ve gotten them a beige or a significant chance at a beige. This change wouldn’t majorily benefit people being sat on honestly If you are having trouble while being sat on and cycled, you are suggesting to be able to force a beige through damaging resistance? However you’ll have to focus 3 missiles on one defensive to even pressure him to beige, at that point he’ll simply be the one to beige you first to cycle regardless. I will say it will probably help vs people who don’t know what their doing by a lot, however the problem isn’t vs people who are incompetent but vs people who can efficiently sit on you. its guaranteeing the 18 Resistance dmg every time. So it is just a huge buff offensively to get beiges, Whilst not really impacting being sat on that much since people who are sitting on you are likely to be more active, and competent if they are actually giving you trouble, meanwhile targets you pick out for missile beiges are more inactive. Plus adding a mechanic where an unpreventable 18 resistance damage is stupid regardless of all of this. I think with Missiles and MLP getting a buff they are fine as is with how cheap they are. 11 hours ago, Cooper_ said: Currently you can only expect 4 resistance reduction per missile hit with ID. Also it wouldn’t it be a 9 resistance reduction. i think this shows a good point as well, although I don’t think looking at average resistance dmg for missiles/nukes is completely accurate for their effectiveness. But this is essentially a 9 resistance dmg buff to missiles on average vs ID. i think for actual effectiveness it would be worth more than 9 resistance worth of damage, which says a lot since buffing literally any attack by 9 resistance would be literally broken as is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosta Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Love everything about this update. Keep it up Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 A poll has been created with regards to if missiles should reduce damage by 50% or continue in the current method of reducing 100% of the damage 50% of the time. Please vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendell Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 18 hours ago, Aqua-Corpsman said: Idk, I feel like nukes and missiles will be a little overpowered. Especially if you get dogpiled. Imagine 6 sets of 2 nukes, destroying 4 improvements each, that's 48 improvements down the drain. But nukes are supposed to be devastating. Actually I think they are too kind in this game. You have to wait 24 hours and then pay 5-7 million. Also, they can get yeeted by multiple spy attacks. So it isn't so much of an ultimatum. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua-Corpsman Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Just now, Deulos said: But nukes are supposed to be devastating. Actually I think they are too kind in this game. You have to wait 24 hours and then pay 5-7 million. Also, they can get yeeted by multiple spy attacks. So it isn't so much of an ultimatum. That's fair. Idk, if they do get buffed warfare is going to revolve around nukes in the future. Quote To whom it may concern, I do not represent The Immortals unless explicitly stated (ergo, never.)<--- I hardly use the forums anymore, add me on discord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 "Even if the VDS blocks out the nuke, allow for the nation to experience "nuclear fallout". I'll explain it here. Since we assume the nuke is blocked mid-air, all the radiation and such should still affect pollution levels. This can be realized by polluting the city as if an actual nuke were to fall on the city." Uh, no, no it can't. This is easily explicable as not how things actually work by anyone with the vaguest understanding of how these actual systems work. Even before before we explain GMD, the US new fangled anti-ICBM system that shoots down missiles mid course in atmosphere, your more traditional less awesome systems don't shoot them down right above the city. If your nuke is getting shot down it's miles and miles into the sky and still hundreds or thousands more form it's target. They don't shoot AIM-9s at these things. At worst they shoot the kind of long range ballistic missiles an MLP would produce, and in the case of GMD they counter your icbm with an icbm. They're actually, fun fact too, more accurate than the VDS in game is. GMD in particular is about 56% accurate. If you're going to couch your suggestion in realism because it sounds like how it works in your head, check to see that reality upholds that. Or, just, don't make suggestions with realism as the base. Realism is nice to have, not a requirement. As for the OP it's, a thing, I guess. Still don't understand why we're changing multiple numbers for multiple things to fix a balance issue solved by a single number changing. The ships definitely need to require some # of ships to do, or it will be completely and utterly the most broken thing I have ever seen. Still don't really get the point of commodities as is or at all, even, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer Village Posted February 20, 2021 Developer Share Posted February 20, 2021 23 hours ago, Prefontaine said: Alliances have the ability to create up to 8 alliance positions, 5 more than the default 3. All alliance roles will come with a check list for which powers those positions have. Bank Access Changing Roles Ability to see spy counts Ability to see daily reset timers (time zones) Editing Tax Brackets Accept new members View member caches I beg of you! Please! This would be so amazing!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toutatis Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Overall, I like the ideas for the most part. I do agree with an earlier poster about the nukes, sjips and missles. Not sure about that in the grand scheme of it. As for the alliances sectIon, I like that we can designate roles and have more slots for the roles. But, the part I dislike is that alliances can have only 1 treaty. I'm not keen on that. Alliances should have at least 2-3 slots available. 1 of those slots for a protectorate (if they have 1), an then 1-2 for that alliances major ally(allies). Otherwise, the update will be fine for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 2/19/2021 at 5:00 PM, Prefontaine said: When a nation is blockaded naval units can bombard a city instead of performing a naval battle. Does this stand for nations that haven’t blockaded? IE if Nation A is blockaded by Nation B, and Nation C declares war, can Nation C bombard without personally blockading? 8 minutes ago, Toutatis said: Overall, I like the ideas for the most part. I do agree with an earlier poster about the nukes, sjips and missles. Not sure about that in the grand scheme of it. As for the alliances sectIon, I like that we can designate roles and have more slots for the roles. But, the part I dislike is that alliances can have only 1 treaty. I'm not keen on that. Alliances should have at least 2-3 slots available. 1 of those slots for a protectorate (if they have 1), an then 1-2 for that alliances major ally(allies). Otherwise, the update will be fine for now. I believe he meant alliances can only sign 1 treaty with each other. IE an alliance must pick between PIAT, MDP, MDoAP, etc., with a potential treaty partner; not alliances are only allowed one total treaty. I think it’s meant to prevent treaty spam, like what recently happened with Liberty and also KT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Patrick Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Some good suggestions but I think the treaties are fine lol #notbiased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tyrion Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I think these are good changes overall. Some of this will help newer players catch up faster (shorter timer resets) which is good since more and more of the game is city 30+. The war mechanic changes look good too. My only critique would be the missiles and nukes getting stronger, even if they do less resistance damage (that just means you eat more sitting on somebody). I personally feel like they are already overpowered, if not for being able to block some of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lord Tyrion said: I think these are good changes overall. Some of this will help newer players catch up faster (shorter timer resets) which is good since more and more of the game is city 30+. The war mechanic changes look good too. My only critique would be the missiles and nukes getting stronger, even if they do less resistance damage (that just means you eat more sitting on somebody). I personally feel like they are already overpowered, if not for being able to block some of them. Part of the idea is to not make it great to sit on someone forever. The cost of the improvement destroyed is virtually non-existent the real cost comes from lost revenue if that improvement isn't replaced with infra-rebuilds. The losing side typically loses more of its revenue from income with the destruction of their infra. They have a hard time doing any meaningful income loss to the winning side, this gives a small bit of that. It can also be used against the losing side in blowing up their improvements too, though you'll more likely want to use the new Bombardment attack for that. Edited February 21, 2021 by Prefontaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifex Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 NO COMMODITIES! ALL CN MECHANICS NEED TO DIE WITH CN! 2 Quote Love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGhost Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 2/19/2021 at 5:00 PM, Prefontaine said: New Attack Type: Bombardment Isn’t this only going to be ever used in a situation where one side is already overwhelmingly winning? I can’t see this every being used outside a scenario where one side is already being dogpiled. You will never aim to kill Improvs otherwise. On top of that reducing Gas and Muni use for the already winning side to kill improvements? Seems like a mechanic that will only serve to make losers in wars suffer more, rather than a war mechanic that can aid in winning a even/close war if used correctly. Why not just have bombardments have some sort of interaction with other troops, this has been suggested before but the reason why ships don’t matter is simply because they literally don’t do anything to Ground or Air. Meanwhile planes interact with all types of troops, ground interacts with other ground and air. Ships only really do anything to other ships. I suggest having ships be able to bombard ground troops, I’m not suggesting Planes since I believe that it would be too much of a nerf to planes since they’ve already been hit pretty hard previously (decreasing total plane amount, then massive dmg cuts). plus adding a check for ground seems fine with them being pretty strong. Also @Lord Tyrion Missiles and Nukes aren’t over powered at all in actual war. If it’s an actual even or close fight, you should be losing your infra. The only reason why it “feels op” is because there has been nothing but dogpile wars this last year, where nukes and missiles shine. And in those situations nukes and missiles did not win anyone a war or get them ahead, it merely made it so people wouldn’t get unscathed because they chose to outnumber someone. Which is perfectly fine. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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