Popular Post Prefontaine Posted February 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) The following is a combination of old updates that were never put in, changes based on feedback/suggestions. Please feel free to provide feedback and suggestions to alternative options. Try to limit additional content beyond the scope of what is in this thread. Thank you. Trading Treasures Treasures can be directly traded between players. Treasures cannot be traded while either nation has an active offensive or defensive war. A nation with a treasure already in it cannot trade for another treasure. City/Project Timers New City timers are not effected by projects. New Protects have their own timer of 10 days (120 turns) City timer resets are reduced by 1 credit to 3 credits. Project timer resets cost 1 credit. New Projects Research and Development Center Effect: This project provides two project slots (net: one additional project slot) Cost Cash: $50,000,000 Food: 100,000 Aluminum: 5,000 Logistics Center Effect: Opens an additional trade route for Commodities Cost Cash: $5,000,000 Food: 25,000 Uranium: 5,000 Aluminum: 5,000 World Trade Organization Effect: Opens an additional trade route for Commodities Requirements: International Trade Center, Logistics Center, Space Program Cost Cash: $20,000,000 Food: 250,000 Uranium: 15,000 Aluminum: 10,000 Gasoline: 10,000 Spies Casualties Spy vs Spy casualties are reduced by 33% for the defender on a successful op, and attacker for a failed op. Missiles Spy attacks against missiles have a 25% chance to destroy an additional missile. Soldiers 5% increase is casualties from soldiers fighting soldiers. 33% reduction in tanks killed by soldiers. Soldier only attacks/defends kill too many tanks. Tanks Tanks ability to kill planes after gaining ground superiority reduced by 33% 15% increase in casualties to soldiers by tanks 10% increase in casualties to tanks by tanks With soldiers killing less tanks Planes 25% increase in tanks killed by bombing runs. 10% increase in planes killed by dogfights Ships 10% increase in ships killed by ships. New Attack Type: Bombardment When a nation is blockaded naval units can bombard a city instead of performing a naval battle. This attack destroys 33% less infrastructure This attack destroys 2 non-power plant, non-military improvements in that city. If there are only power plant and military improvements, this attack kills no improvements. This attack costs 50% less gas to perform. This attack costs 50% more munitions to perform If a bombardment attack happens while the defending nation has defending ships, the casualties caused by those defending ships is increased 25%. Example: If you attack with 200 ships and they have 50 ships defending and those 50 ships were going to kill 20 attacking ships, in a bombardment attack they instead would kill 25 ships. You must use at least 75% of your max navy when performing this attack max navy is determined by the number ships you could have if all of your cities had max dry docks, not how many dry docks you current have If you have 20 or less improvements in a city this attack will only kill 1 improvement. If you have 5 cities or less, this attack only kills 1 improvement. Nukes Nukes can now kill 4 improvements per nuclear missile. 2 of these improvements are "general" improvements and have a chance to be any improvement. 2 of these improvements are any non-power plant, non-military improvement. In the event there are no available targets, it bumps up the target list. Effectively if someone only has power plants and military structures, the nuke will destroy 4 of any improvement. Missiles Missiles can now kill 2 improvements per missile. Missile Launch Pad allows a nation to build 2 missiles per day. Iron Dome Reduces the amount of improvements killed from a missile by 1. In addition to normal effeccts Chance of blocking a missile reduced from 50% to 30%. Vital Defense System Chance to block a nuclear missile increased from 20% to 25% Reduces the amount of improvements killed from a nuke by 1. The improvement category this blocks from is the non-power plant, non-military category. Quality of Life Alliances can only have 1 treaty between them. Alliances have the ability to create up to 8 alliance positions, 5 more than the default 3. All alliance roles will come with a check list for which powers those positions have. Bank Access Changing Roles Ability to see spy counts Ability to see daily reset timers (time zones) Editing Tax Brackets Accept new members View member caches Alliance Trades offers also show in the global trades. These trades will show in a different color Expand leaderboards Increase the leaderboards from top 10 to top 100. Alternatively, include all nations in the leaderboards (suggested filters, upon talking more with Roberts: active, non-VM players, perhaps also with a filter to exclude the brand new nations that only logged in once/haven't built up anything). Allow for a search by discord handle Send an automated email to players with nations emerging from vacation mode after an extended period of time. Allow for an option to hide trades of embargoed nations/alliances from the market. Edited March 16, 2021 by Prefontaine 2 2 42 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua-Corpsman Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Idk, I feel like nukes and missiles will be a little overpowered. Especially if you get dogpiled. Imagine 6 sets of 2 nukes, destroying 4 improvements each, that's 48 improvements down the drain. Other than that, nothing negative to say about any of these changes other than this game gets more complicated by the day and I love it. 3 1 Quote To whom it may concern, I do not represent The Immortals unless explicitly stated (ergo, never.)<--- I hardly use the forums anymore, add me on discord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucianus Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 For tanks versus planes: I think a reduction in the damage tanks can do to planes is positive, but I would propose to use the same mechanism for this as is used for planes which target soldiers, tanks or ships. The way it works for planes is (attackers_planes - 0.5 * defenders_planes) * a factor that differs for each type of unit. I would propose to not do a strict reduction of 33%, but rather have defending tanks mean something and be able to reduce the amount of lost planes. So the formula becomes (attackers_tanks - 0.5 *defenders_tanks) * a factor. I would propose to use this formula instead of a 33% reduction rate, regardless of defending tanks. If the defender has just as much tanks as you do, there will be a 50% reduction in destroyed planes and if the defender has no tanks, the damage done by tanks will be the same as it is currently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Adrienne Posted February 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2021 28 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: Missiles Missiles can now kill 2 improvements per missile. Missile Launch Pad allows a nation to build 2 missiles per day. What would this change mean for Space Program? 3 missiles or 4? 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Felipe Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 These will be some great updates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPineapple Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Unlimited Growth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 33 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: All alliance roles will come with a check list for which powers those positions have. Bank Access Changing Roles Ability to see spy counts Ability to see daily reset timers (time zones) Editing Tax Brackets Accept new members View member caches What does "view member caches" mean? Member warchests? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cooper_ Posted February 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: Iron Dome Reduces the amount of improvements killed from a missile by 1. In addition to normal effeccts Suggestion here to change the 50% chance to block to a 50% reduction in damage (keeping the improvement damage reduction above). Missiles are a great way people getting sat on can fight back and destroy improvements, but ID nerfs them a lot since half of the time they won't work. It's already hard enough being able to buy them without them getting destroyed by spies (which is now getting stronger) if you don't have them stockpiled, so a weaker missile is a good tradeoff for being able to more frequently attrition the enemy. This is especially true with the other changes that allow stronger opponents to do even more damage to improvements now. We're seeing a lot of changes that'll make it easier for the winning side to easily force a victory by sitting on their opponents. This would be a small tweak that gives the losing side some more space to fight back and have little ways to do some more damage. Edited February 19, 2021 by Cooper_ grammar 11 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMorf Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Concerned about the nerf to ground control, 33% seems harsh. 25% might be more balanced. Agreed it was a little OP, but it does need to be a viable alternative to fighting a superior Airforce, 4 Quote The Knights Radiant Ghostblood Babsk of Foreign Affairs Journey before Destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Artifex Posted February 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2021 34 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: Treasures can be directly traded between players. Yes... 34 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: New City timers are not effected by projects. YES. 35 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: Alliances can only have 1 treaty between them. YES! 10 1 Quote Love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havgle Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 When’s the ETA? 2 Quote "Havgle is a piece of sh*t" -probably everyone in Orbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 38 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: Quality of Life Alliances can only have 1 treaty between them. Alliances have the ability to create up to 8 alliance positions, 5 more than the default 3. All alliance roles will come with a check list for which powers those positions have. Bank Access Changing Roles Ability to see spy counts Ability to see daily reset timers (time zones) Editing Tax Brackets Accept new members View member caches Alliance Trades offers also show in the global trades. These trades will show in a different color Expand leaderboards Increase the leaderboards from top 10 to top 100. Alternatively, include all nations in the leaderboards (suggested filters, upon talking more with Roberts: active, non-VM players, perhaps also with a filter to exclude the brand new nations that only logged in once/haven't built up anything). All of this makes me happy. Quote A game dies without a community. Don't hate on the communities trying to grow. Eat them instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, Adrienne said: What would this change mean for Space Program? 3 missiles or 4? With MLP and SP you can build 3 missiles a day. 7 minutes ago, BigMorf said: Concerned about the nerf to ground control, 33% seems harsh. 25% might be more balanced. Agreed it was a little OP, but it does need to be a viable alternative to fighting a superior Airforce, One thing to factor in is that GA's cost 3 MAPs versus AS costing 4 MAPs. I'm not against changing the number from 33%. Original pitches were 40-50% and I opted for 33%. 8 minutes ago, Havgle said: When’s the ETA? Alex usually rolls things out a couple at a time. Implementation is between him and his coder. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Uh. 50% less or more rss usage and less infra killed is meaningless if one ship can destroy those two improvements just fine. It'd completely !@#$ over raiders and people fighting uphill since hundreds of improvements could be destroyed at the cost of pennies. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, Cooper_ said: Suggestion here to change the 50% chance to block to a 50% reduction in damage (keeping the improvement damage reduction above). Missiles are a great way people getting sat on can fight back and destroy improvements, but ID nerfs them a lot since half of the time they won't work. I have suggested this before, projects that defend against nukes/missiles doing flat reduction percentages instead of chances to block. Typically I hear back that players like the chance aspect of the all or nothing. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaku Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Cooper_ said: Suggestion here to change the 50% chance to block to a 50% reduction in damage (plus improvement damage reduction). Missiles are a great way people getting sat on can fight back and destroy improvements, but ID nerfs them a lot since half of the time they won't work. It's already hard enough being able to buy them without them getting destroy by spies (which is now getting stronger) if you don't have them stockpiled, so a weaker missile is a good tradeoff for being able to more frequently attrition the enemy. This is especially true with the other changes that allow stronger opponents to do even more damage to improvements now. We're seeing a lot of changes that'll make it easier for the winning side to easily force a victory by sitting on their opponents. This would be a small tweak that gives the losing side some more space to fight back and have little ways to do some more damage. I agree with the 50% damage reduction, the 50% miss makes ID really strong and since it's random, you can get unlucky and miss 4 missiles in a row. I've done it lol https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=847047 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 Just now, Shiho Nishizumi said: Uh. 50% less or more rss usage and less infra killed is meaningless if one ship can destroy those two improvements just fine. It'd completely !@#$ over raiders and people fighting uphill since hundreds of improvements could be destroyed at the cost of pennies. The attack can have the restriction that you have to use at least 75% of the max navy your nation can field. If you could have 100 ships in a nation with the number of cities you have, then you must use at east 75 ships in the attack. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaku Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 51 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: Ships 10% increase in ships killed by ships. New Attack Type: Bombardment When a nation is blockaded naval units can bombard a city instead of performing a naval battle. This attack destroys 33% less infrastructure This attack destroys 2 non-power plant improvements in that city This attack costs 50% less gas to perform. This attack costs 50% more munitions to perform If a bombardment attack happens while the defending nation has defending ships, the casualties caused by those defending ships is increased 25%. Example: If you attack with 200 ships and they have 50 ships defending and those 50 ships were going to kill 20 attacking ships, in a bombardment attack they instead would kill 25 ships. I like this, ships actually serve a purpose in global wars now. Are the improvements random or targeted? also, i imagine this attack is still 4 maps and 14 resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 Just now, MBaku said: Are the improvements random or targeted? also, i imagine this attack is still 4 maps and 14 resistance. Yes, Random but cannot get power plants with their randomness. Still 4 maps and still the same resistance results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaku Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: The attack can have the restriction that you have to use at least 75% of the max navy your nation can field. If you could have 100 ships in a nation with the number of cities you have, then you must use at east 75 ships in the attack. Is this decided yet? Seems pretty OP to bombard with one ship and destroy two improvements against enemies with no navy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 22 minutes ago, Adrienne said: What does "view member caches" mean? Member warchests? Resources/money on hand. This ability would be useful for an econ officer. 2 minutes ago, MBaku said: Is this decided yet? Seems pretty OP to bombard with one ship and destroy two improvements against enemies with no navy. Nothing is decided yet. This thread will help in making decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper_ Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: I have suggested this before, projects that defend against nukes/missiles doing flat reduction percentages instead of chances to block. Typically I hear back that players like the chance aspect of the all or nothing. Three things here: 1. A flat reduction of 50% would actually make missiles a tiny bit stronger given that infra costs increase exponentially. i.e. two 2k cities losing 100 infra is more damage than a single 2k city losing 200 with a miss on the other 2. The damage reduction would still allow for resistance to decrease, so people can bait beiges and make it harder to get cycled. Currently you can only expect 4 resistance reduction per missile hit with ID. 3. I haven't heard that about ID before although I have heard people wanting to keep VDS as chance instead of flat reduction. I have discussed the ID idea externally with pretty decent responses. The nuke and missile military meta should not be looked at the same way. Nukes are useful in fewer situations, have less versatility, are riskier to use (saving up resources and MAPs isn't always easy), and have much greater destructive power. Having missiles as a guaranteed source of attrition you can afford with your daily bonus is pretty necessary here to balance the many buffs stronger opponents are getting to improvement attrition (requiring expensive infra rebuilding to counter). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: The attack can have the restriction that you have to use at least 75% of the max navy your nation can field. If you could have 100 ships in a nation with the number of cities you have, then you must use at east 75 ships in the attack. It certainly should, if it is to go through. And yes, it should be pinned to city count rather than navy possessed or drydocks possessed at hand because otherwise it'd be easily gamed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Cooper_ said: Three things here: 1. A flat reduction of 50% would actually make missiles a tiny bit stronger given that infra costs increase exponentially. i.e. two 2k cities losing 100 infra is more damage than a single 2k city losing 200 with a miss on the other 2. The damage reduction would still allow for resistance to decrease, so people can bait beiges and make it harder to get cycled. Currently you can only expect 4 resistance reduction per missile hit with ID. 3. I haven't heard that about ID before although I have heard people wanting to keep VDS as chance instead of flat reduction. I have discussed the ID idea externally with pretty decent responses. The nuke and missile military meta should not be looked at the same way. Nukes are useful in fewer situations, have less versatility, are riskier to use (saving up resources and MAPs isn't always easy), and have much greater destructive power. Having missiles as a guaranteed source of attrition you can afford with your daily bonus is pretty necessary here to balance the many buffs stronger opponents are getting to improvement attrition (requiring expensive infra rebuilding to counter). I'll create a poll thread to have a vote on the change. If the game votes for a damage reduction versus all or nothing block chance, I'm fine going that route. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaku Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Prefontaine said: Nothing is decided yet. This thread will help in making decisions. I think a minimum number of ships could work, but 75% is pretty big - I'd like to see something more like 1/6 or half your ships if you're running 1 drydock each city. But also, lots of folks just run no ships at all, especially last global. This would make ships important and necessary all the time and could make the meta shift towards aquiring naval superiority in globals - if that's the goal. I think the problem is that it's too hard to get naval superiority if you're losing because whoever can keep air superiority can also dominate navy. It's pretty much impossible to win in the air if you're dogpiled. Losing 16 improvements per war or 42 per cycle will speed up large conflicts a lot. Also, how guaranteed are the improvement destruction for non-IT hits? I think a moderate success could be one improvement and the rest should be none. Edited February 19, 2021 by MBaku 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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