SNN-Order of the Phoenyx

[Aqua-Corpsman]

1 minute ago, Prefonteen said:

sit the f down.

 

[Prefonteen]

15 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Honestly Partisan, unless you want to post your logs showing anyone from my bloc plotting with rose and swamp to hit you with things like a time frame or anything that can be taken beyond general talking, anything you continue to post about this is just gas lighting, and I am going to treat it as such. 

If you want to break up Hedge, this has been your chance for months now.  Prove my allies have been lying to my face.  You can do it in this channel, you can PM me, whatever.

Waaaait a second. I just noticed this. 

The post above yours literally notes that if rose is in, you are in. If Rose isn't in, "lets see the size". The only inference one can make is that your war hadn't progressed yet by the time it leaked, because you didn't find your odds dogpile-ey enough yet.

The irony of you claiming i'm gaslighting you for calling out the lies of your friends after evidence is publicied underlining said lies is... astounding. You're better than that. Shame, old man.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

If that is all you got, then cool, you dont have anything and you have been lying about all these logs you said you have, so how can I take you seriously?   You are also missing the follow up conversations where we are like, hey whats going on with this, and the answer is nothing.

So we can go back to the point I brought up during the war, your own paranoia (while justified in your eyes) got you rolled.

[Prefonteen]

22 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

If that is all you got, then cool, you dont have anything and you have been lying about all these logs you said you have, so how can I take you seriously?   You are also missing the follow up conversations where we are like, hey whats going on with this, and the answer is nothing.

So we can go back to the point I brought up during the war, your own paranoia (while justified in your eyes) got you rolled.

Is this satire?

If not, I point you, once again, to the logs that were just posted.

[Aqua-Corpsman]

24 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

So we can go back to the point I brought up during the war, your own paranoia (while justified in your eyes) got you rolled.

Wha?

What actually happened not withstanding, you're telling me that he got attacked because he was worried about being attacked? What?

[Adrienne]

25 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

If that is all you got, then cool, you dont have anything and you have been lying about all these logs you said you have, so how can I take you seriously?   You are also missing the follow up conversations where we are like, hey whats going on with this, and the answer is nothing.

So we can go back to the point I brought up during the war, your own paranoia (while justified in your eyes) got you rolled.

It's not paranoia if it's true and it's little difficult to believe you guys when, even within this thread, the story keeps changing. First there were no plans, then it was last minute defensive plans, then we have it confirmed there was a long standing secret what's essentially an MDP, and then this shows there were offensive talks, which you guys are still denying even with them being splayed out for all to see. More than a little frustrating that you keep on the "oh, you're just paranoid" track in light of all we've seen. 

[Firwof Kromwell]

After all this time, I see what you were talking about @Prefonteen. Sorry for doubting your old snakey coot. On the other hand, I don't see the point of Hedge continuing to pull complete blasphemy out of there asses, then smear it on the mirror very good, then point the finger at the next person in line for the bathroom. Then again, it's what Hedge does best, or more truthfully, CotL.

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Firwof Kromwell

[Aqua-Corpsman]

3 minutes ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

I don't see the point of Hedge continuing to pull complete blasphemy out of their asses, then smear it on the mirror very good, then point the finger at the next person in line for the bathroom. 

...are you speaking from experience there Mr. Kromwell?

Edited February 12, 2021 by Aqua-Corpsman

[Firwof Kromwell]

2 minutes ago, Aqua-Corpsman said:

...are you speaking from experience there Mr. Kromwell?

Somehow, I'm usually the next person in line. Though, this time Parti was the next in line. The rest of us are obviously behind him.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

15 minutes ago, Aqua-Corpsman said:

Wha?

What actually happened not withstanding, you're telling me that he got attacked because he was worried about being attacked? What?

Quack didn't get attacked, Quack attacked us.  I made the mistake of trying to be honest since everyone said they wanted to try to "change" the way the game was played and admitted that we had a conversation about hitting Quack, which we did, and nothing ever came from it.  Quack is trying to prove that because we talked about it, we were definitely going to do it, which is their right, and why I say in their eyes they feel they are justified in the attack.   But from my point of view this conversation never went anywhere because Rose never got on board.  Is it possible they could have at a future date? Who knows, Quack seems to think this is the case, but have never shown any evidence of this being true. 

That being said they also attacked us before I admitted HM had a conversation about it, and the only proof they had was a talk between Sphinx and Boyce, since it seems they dont have any additional logs to prove otherwise.   So again, they thought they were justified in the attack, fair enough, I admitted we had a conversation, and they take the part of my post that is politically convenient for them and say "look we were right!"   and as shown in this thread they continue to do so. 

Yes Adrienne, in my opinion you played yourselves, we had an informal agreement with Swamp for mutual safety of our blocs, in case you ever decided to hit either of us, since we both knew we couldn't beat you 1 on 1, and after you militarized, Rose decided to help, if they were convinced or they offered up to help, I was not part of that conversation or decision and do not know.  You will have to ask Rose that.  I am not allied to Rose or have any connection to them beyond being a fellow combatant in the last war, so I am not going to speak for them.

If any of this is not true, please post evidence saying otherwise.

What I find disappointing is that while I am willing to see Quacks point of view, they have refused to acknowledge anything I have said beyond what politically helps their CB, I see that as a slimy thing to do, and hoped Post IQ we would be better than that.   This one sided refusal to see both sides of an argument is what started IQ's belief that we all wanted to permawar and wipe them out, and helped lead to that shit show.

[MinesomeMC]

2 hours ago, Aqua-Corpsman said:

 

[Zygon]

13 hours ago, 丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™ said:

Shifty here with a 2 for 1; a devil's triangle, an eiffel tower, or as you'd say, what ur mum likes.

SNN has finally the posts to end Phoenyx posting once and for all. Yes, TI did know.

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Quack didn't get attacked, Quack attacked us.  I made the mistake of trying to be honest since everyone said they wanted to try to "change" the way the game was played and admitted that we had a conversation about hitting Quack, which we did, and nothing ever came from it.  Quack is trying to prove that because we talked about it, we were definitely going to do it, which is their right, and why I say in their eyes they feel they are justified in the attack.   But from my point of view this conversation never went anywhere because Rose never got on board.  Is it possible they could have at a future date? Who knows, Quack seems to think this is the case, but have never shown any evidence of this being true. 

That being said they also attacked us before I admitted HM had a conversation about it, and the only proof they had was a talk between Sphinx and Boyce, since it seems they dont have any additional logs to prove otherwise.   So again, they thought they were justified in the attack, fair enough, I admitted we had a conversation, and they take the part of my post that is politically convenient for them and say "look we were right!"   and as shown in this thread they continue to do so. 

Yes Adrienne, in my opinion you played yourselves, we had an informal agreement with Swamp for mutual safety of our blocs, in case you ever decided to hit either of us, since we both knew we couldn't beat you 1 on 1, and after you militarized, Rose decided to help, if they were convinced or they offered up to help, I was not part of that conversation or decision and do not know.  You will have to ask Rose that.  I am not allied to Rose or have any connection to them beyond being a fellow combatant in the last war, so I am not going to speak for them.

If any of this is not true, please post evidence saying otherwise.

What I find disappointing is that while I am willing to see Quacks point of view, they have refused to acknowledge anything I have said beyond what politically helps their CB, I see that as a slimy thing to do, and hoped Post IQ we would be better than that.   This one sided refusal to see both sides of an argument is what started IQ's belief that we all wanted to permawar and wipe them out, and helped lead to that shit show.

It sure doesn't feel like you're willing to hear our viewpoint when you guys just continually dismiss us as paranoid. And you didn't really address my point either where you guys have been all over the board on this:

1. You told us here that there were talks, like the OP shows, but then your allies jumped in and said you were out of the loop and Tyrion denied any offensive planning, which doesn't jive with these logs either.

2. You said you were only in if Rose was in but now we're seeing that's not the case, you would have still considered it without Rose, you just wanted to see the matchup.

3. It was denied until the end by half your coalition that there was ever a defensive arrangement, that it was all last minute, while the other half says there was a long standing defensive pact made at least a month in advance but we've heard as much as five months in advance too iirc.

And that's just what I can remember offhand; I'm sure I've forgotten something most likely. So, no, we don't know what to believe because it feels like the story is ever changing. What we do know is that there was a discussion regarding us being hit which is clearly shown now, we'd been seeing anti-Quack stuff for months beforehand (score charts with heavily over inflated numbers for us, under inflated numbers for the other spheres, rhetoric and narratives from before the end of NPOLT even, etc), we were shown that there was a discussion on hitting us and even a time frame given in the logs, and we decided to preempt that. It didn't work out in our favor clearly but I don't think that thought process was where we got played. In other areas, definitely. Congrats on your secret treaties, it worked well for you.

It seems pretty clear to me though that there was definitely something going on and, even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that it was tabled after that conversation, the interest was well there, the tension was well there, and there's very little doubt in my mind that this wasn't coming regardless. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Adrienne

[Sval]

I for one am looking forward to seeing what the narrative will be next week.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

45 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

It sure doesn't feel like you're willing to hear our viewpoint when you guys just continually dismiss us as paranoid. And you didn't really address my point either where you guys have been all over the board on this:

1. You told us here that there were talks, like the OP shows, but then your allies jumped in and said you were out of the loop and Tyrion denied any offensive planning, which doesn't jive with these logs either.

2. You said you were only in if Rose was in but now we're seeing that's not the case, you would have still considered it without Rose, you just wanted to see the matchup.

3. It was denied until the end by half your coalition that there was ever a defensive arrangement, that it was all last minute, while the other half says there was a long standing defensive pact made at least a month in advance but we've heard as much as five months in advance too iirc.

And that's just what I can remember offhand; I'm sure I've forgotten something most likely. So, no, we don't know what to believe because it feels like the story is ever changing. What we do know is that there was a discussion regarding us being hit which is clearly shown now, we'd been seeing anti-Quack stuff for months beforehand (score charts with heavily over inflated numbers for us, under inflated numbers for the other spheres, rhetoric and narratives from before the end of NPOLT even, etc), we were shown that there was a discussion on hitting us and even a time frame given in the logs, and we decided to preempt that. It didn't work out in our favor clearly but I don't think that thought process was where we got played. In other areas, definitely. Congrats on your secret treaties, it worked well for you.

It seems pretty clear to me though that there was definitely something going on and, even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that it was tabled after that conversation, the interest was well there, the tension was well there, and there's very little doubt in my mind that this wasn't coming regardless. 

Cool cool,

I dont know what my allies said about my post, I did do it without consulting them first.  Asking around over the last few months I have seen nothing that goes against what I posted.

Yeah that log is you seeing my reaction on finding out brand new news.  If you are going to hold me to a single statement made 5 mins after learning someone wants to go to war, and you dont think I later used additional information later to make a more educated decision. I guess I cant stop you, but it seems a little disingenuous.  

The OWF post I made was 2 days after the war started, and I cant speak for other blocs, or how they want to run their FA, or their messaging.  All I can do is give my opinion and my version of the truth which I have been consistent with the entire time. Quack's version at the start of the war seemed to be painting HM as the leading force to take you out which as you can see from this log, is untrue, and even from Sphinx's log is untrue.  If that is untrue, is it possible other things you believe could be untrue?  (it is, and that is why I think you played yourselves into getting rolled)

On an extremely serious note, maybe Sphinx is actually a political genius, he has twice gotten his enemies to roll themselves, and all it took was leaking out some info.  He knows how hard it is to form a coalition, twice now he has leaked info to get his opponent to act for him and led them to get rolled.  Is anyone looking into this?  Pheonix get on this will ya? 

End of the day, if you want, we can go back and just copy paste our arguments about this from 3 months ago, nothing here has changed until Quack wants to bring new information to the table.  The advantage of telling the truth, is I dont need to back peddle and make up excuses when things get leaked.  Because... yup that is what I said, and its also what I said I said. 

I also fully stand behind the parts where we shit on TCW for being crappy, even if Sphinx is a criminal mastermind, playing 9D chess, and then going to vaca as to not even have to get his hands dirty...   Holy crap, the more I think about this...  We are all puppets and Sphinx is pulling the strings.  I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he planted the seeds to get KT to attack Oasis, they are allies after all.

 

 

 

[Phoenyx]

15 hours ago, 丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™ said:

Shifty here with a 2 for 1; a devil's triangle, an eiffel tower, or as you'd say, what ur mum likes.

SNN has finally the posts to end Phoenyx posting once and for all. Yes, TI did know.

 

Thank you so much Shifty. It's no secret that I've been longing to know who the HM leader was for ages now -.-. However, if your hope was that I'd stop posting once and for all, I'm afraid I'll have to dash your hopes :-p. As a matter of fact, until the HM leader was revealed, I really couldn't say much. There was simply no lead left I could follow.

 

As to your point that TI did know, the first question to that would be, know what? The only thing that LeftBehind said in your log was the familiar bit about wanting to counter Quack's growth and that Swamp had wanted a tie with HM, but that doesn't mean that they wanted to attack Quack. As I've said in the past, what would -really- be good to know more about is whether LeftBehind talked to anyone in Swamp about this. Based on the log, it seems that he might not have, but Akuryo did, assuming that James is/was a Swamp representative. 

[Lord Tyrion]

Probably against my better judgement, I'll just say a couple notes here to keep the record straight since multiple people have contacted me about this thread.  I still stand 100% behind everything stated in public on this situation and that there was no offensive coalition being formed that we were aware of or a part of.  I went back and looked at the date we talked to Lefty since this was when these screenshots are from.  That was the day TCW came to us asking to join Swamp and we reached out to Lefty that day to get his opinion around how that would be perceived around the game and the pros and cons of such a move.  We did have fears of TCW going to Quack if we didn't take them in, and that day was the first time we talked to Lefty/HM about size concerns with Quack and that a defensive pact may be a good idea.  That was as far as it got, there was no discussions of taking the fight to them, just concerns that they'd pick off one of the major spheres one by one potentially and we should have each other's backs if that happened.  This has effectively all already been said publicly before.

The screenshot from Lefty says "they are talking with TCW about joining together to counter Quack's growth".  Again, counter the growth (which wasn't an actual statement we used when talking to lefty), not curb or stop or defeat - a size counterbalance.  TCW going to Quack would have made concerns there larger and that was where the discomfort came from.  

But back to the screenshot, TCW joining Swamp as a counterbalance to Quack's growth is what Lefty wrote.  But in reading these HM screenshots, it seems SRD got the impression Lefty was presenting some coalition being built to go wipe Quack and it looks like their chat went down that rabbit hole.  Beyond that, they had speculative strategic discussion as probably every bloc has from that point on, which obviously nobody else but them were privy to (until now I suppose).

 

I'm not sure what Shifty means by "Yes, TI did know".  We had no insight into these HM conversations.  

[Phoenyx]

6 minutes ago, Lord Tyrion said:

Probably against my better judgement, I'll just say a couple notes here to keep the record straight since multiple people have contacted me about this thread.  I still stand 100% behind everything stated in public on this situation and that there was no offensive coalition being formed that we were aware of or a part of.  I went back and looked at the date we talked to Lefty since this was when these screenshots are from.  That was the day TCW came to us asking to join Swamp and we reached out to Lefty that day to get his opinion around how that would be perceived around the game and the pros and cons of such a move.  We did have fears of TCW going to Quack if we didn't take them in, and that day was the first time we talked to Lefty/HM about size concerns with Quack and that a defensive pact may be a good idea.  That was as far as it got, there was no discussions of taking the fight to them, just concerns that they'd pick off one of the major spheres one by one potentially and we should have each other's backs if that happened.  This has effectively all already been said publicly before.

The screenshot from Lefty says "they are talking with TCW about joining together to counter Quack's growth".  Again, counter the growth (which wasn't an actual statement we used when talking to lefty), not curb or stop or defeat - a size counterbalance.  TCW going to Quack would have made concerns there larger and that was where the discomfort came from.  

But back to the screenshot, TCW joining Swamp as a counterbalance to Quack's growth is what Lefty wrote.  But in reading these HM screenshots, it seems SRD got the impression Lefty was presenting some coalition being built to go wipe Quack and it looks like their chat went down that rabbit hole.  Beyond that, they had speculative strategic discussion as probably every bloc has from that point on, which obviously nobody else but them were privy to (until now I suppose).

 

I'm not sure what Shifty means by "Yes, TI did know".  We had no insight into these HM conversations.  

 

Thanks a lot for posting this here. As to what Shifty meant, my guess is he meant that Leftbehind had spoken to TI, which was true. But what you said above puts that all into the proper context. For me and possibly for many others, it is quite possibly for the first time. I had -suspected- that the HM leader (which we now know was Leftbehind) had been referring to Swamp's wish for a defensive Coalition but with your words, it solidly reinforces this belief. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Phoenyx

[Adrienne]

30 minutes ago, Lord Tyrion said:

I'm not sure what Shifty means by "Yes, TI did know".  We had no insight into these HM conversations.  

James is referenced in those screenshots

[Phoenyx]

3 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

James is referenced in those screenshots

I think what Tyrion is getting at is that he wasn't in the HM only conversations. He has already said that TI spoke to LeftBehind concerning a defensive treaty. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Phoenyx

[Adrienne]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

I think what Tyrion is getting at is that he wasn't in the HM only conversations. He has already said that TI spoke to LeftBehind concerning a defensive treaty. 

If you'd actually read the OP, you'd realize this isn't about a defensive treaty.

[Phoenyx]

Just now, Adrienne said:

If you'd actually read the OP, you'd realize this isn't about a defensive treaty.

I read every word in the OP. I imagine Tyrion did as well. It seems clear as day that he's saying that he believes that Ronny simply misinterpreted things. Because unlike Leftbehind, he never spoke to TI. Now that Leftbehind is here, I imagine that he can weigh in on his own recollection of his conversation with TI. Perhaps that will help us finally come to an agreement on what really happened here. 

[Dr James Wilson]

10 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

James is referenced in those screenshots

 

6 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

If you'd actually read the OP, you'd realize this isn't about a defensive treaty.

The reference being made is a conversation I had with Akuryo after the Duloc Affairs ended where we discussed renewing the o-level defensive treaty between our two blocs.

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Lord Tyrion said:

The screenshot from Lefty says "they are talking with TCW about joining together to counter Quack's growth".  Again, counter the growth (which wasn't an actual statement we used when talking to lefty), not curb or stop or defeat - a size counterbalance.  TCW going to Quack would have made concerns there larger and that was where the discomfort came from.  

And right under that, you can see them immediately start discussing a war, which doesn't really jive well with what you're saying.... Also.... TCW going to Quack? What?

32 minutes ago, Dr James Wilson said:

The reference being made is a conversation I had with Akuryo after the Duloc Affairs ended where we discussed renewing the o-level defensive treaty between our two blocs.

Thanks for the clarification on what was being referred to from my first quote there, I appreciate it, but that's not the part I'm talking about with the second quote of mine, I was referring to the logs as a whole.

2 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Cool cool,

I dont know what my allies said about my post, I did do it without consulting them first.  Asking around over the last few months I have seen nothing that goes against what I posted.

Yeah that log is you seeing my reaction on finding out brand new news.  If you are going to hold me to a single statement made 5 mins after learning someone wants to go to war, and you dont think I later used additional information later to make a more educated decision. I guess I cant stop you, but it seems a little disingenuous.  

The OWF post I made was 2 days after the war started, and I cant speak for other blocs, or how they want to run their FA, or their messaging.  All I can do is give my opinion and my version of the truth which I have been consistent with the entire time. Quack's version at the start of the war seemed to be painting HM as the leading force to take you out which as you can see from this log, is untrue, and even from Sphinx's log is untrue.  If that is untrue, is it possible other things you believe could be untrue?  (it is, and that is why I think you played yourselves into getting rolled)

You're one sphere, you should be one voice when it comes to stuff like this. Ideally that'd be true within the coalition as a whole, if you're all just telling the truth, but it's not even the same within Hedge or even in some cases within the same alliance so that's clearly too much to ask for. If you're all out contradicting each other, then it really should come to absolutely no surprise that no one has any idea whatsoever what to believe from you guys regarding all this.

Regarding the "painting HM as the leading force to take you out", who actually initiated the conversation is fairly irrelevant when you both were implicated and it really wasn't a hard sell to believe you two were working together - you were, after all, regardless of the capacity you'd have us believe that was in. You fought a war together, there were pretty obvious signs of considerable heavy discussions regarding Quack, which has been corroborated by these and other logs, and as has now been shown, at the very least had a paperless defensive agreement (since we can at least agree on that much). Regarding HM specifically, more knowledgeable folks may correct me on this but I believe we more so saw you as the most likely to definitely be in given your sphere's aggressive narratives about us and things like the aforementioned score chart that was prevalent all throughout the NAP. Out of the two implicated in the logs, your sphere was not only the biggest threat but also the more experienced of the two spheres and so would have been more likely to be doing more of the heavy lifting. Take it as a compliment  

Edited February 13, 2021 by Adrienne

[Phoenyx]

2 hours ago, Adrienne said:

And right under that, you can see them immediately start discussing a war, which doesn't really jive well with what you're saying.... Also.... TCW going to Quack? What?

Thanks for the clarification on what was being referred to from my first quote there, I appreciate it, but that's not the part I'm talking about with the second quote of mine, I was referring to the logs as a whole.

You're one sphere, you should be one voice when it comes to stuff like this. Ideally that'd be true within the coalition as a whole, if you're all just telling the truth, but it's not even the same within Hedge or even in some cases within the same alliance so that's clearly too much to ask for. If you're all out contradicting each other, then it really should come to absolutely no surprise that no one has any idea whatsoever what to believe from you guys regarding all this.

Regarding the "painting HM as the leading force to take you out", who actually initiated the conversation is fairly irrelevant when you both were implicated and it really wasn't a hard sell to believe you two were working together - you were, after all, regardless of the capacity you'd have us believe that was in. You fought a war together, there were pretty obvious signs of considerable heavy discussions regarding Quack, which has been corroborated by these and other logs, and as has now been shown, at the very least had a paperless defensive agreement (since we can at least agree on that much). Regarding HM specifically, more knowledgeable folks may correct me on this but I believe we more so saw you as the most likely to definitely be in given your sphere's aggressive narratives about us and things like the aforementioned score chart that was prevalent all throughout the NAP. Out of the two implicated in the logs, your sphere was not only the biggest threat but also the more experienced of the two spheres and so would have been more likely to be doing more of the heavy lifting. Take it as a compliment  

 

What Ronny and others have been trying to persuade you guys for a very long time is that while they may have thought of attacking you guys briefly, it was very brief. Swamp, via Tyrion, has once again been adamant that Swamp never had any plans to attack you guys and no one on the non Quack side has contradicted him at this point. Ronny has always made it clear that he didn't actually talk to Swamp, so it's easy to see how he could have misinterpreted things. Leftbehind certainly hasn't contradicted him.