Baxuite players have an unfair advantage when it comes to producing things, Oil players as well to a lesser extant.

[Chancellor Gottfried]

Okay  let's be honest steel/iron is basically useless in the current meta-game. Now I am in a country in which I can't mine or make bauxite I get it's tied to your continent[1] which you can produce, and after making multiple cities it's still the case so I assume it's a nation thing, which is fair like oil/coal I get that. However unlike that disparity which makes your nation feel more unique and put a higher meta-game into trading. There is no accurate parody between iron and bauxite to account for the randomness. So I am a iron producing country and I like many nations are looking for military expansion. and I see tanks creators require bauxite so you know I don't pick that. I see hangers use steel so I'm glad assuming I can make planes with steel which makes sense that's what a lot of them are made out of. I should note going in I know I'd need to import oil/gasoline to power it, and I have a lead mine so I got that covered. I don't like importing oil cause it means it's unsustainable meaning if I got closed off to the market for any reason or in some case I wanted to go fully independent I can never do that since I can never produce the gasoline necessary to power the planes. So I do wish I could do something else but I get it's fair it gives strength and weaknesses somewhat and I accept it, so I buy some off the market[2] and make the hanger with my 10 steel. I'm ready to use it to make some steel airplanes and what do I find when I go into to make them I can't because it requires 5 bauxite, by the way not mentioned anywhere in the description, actually none of the material requiring military mention their cost per unit in their description only the cost to operate:

Quote

"Aircraft are used for bombing runs on enemy nations and to defend against bombing runs at home. They are excellent at destroying infrastructure, improvements, and stockpiles. You can only build a maximum of 3 aircraft per day per Hangar. Your production rate and maximum capacity are both dependent on your population, with a ceiling achieved when population meets or exceeds 1,000 citizens per Aircraft. Because you can't build an army overnight, the trick is to find an amount that can function as an adequate defense if you're attacked but not too costly in upkeep. To operate aircraft require 1 Gasoline and 1 Munitions per 4 aircraft. To decommission aircraft, enter a negative value in the input box. Decommissioning units refunds 75% of the resources but no money. "

 

Quote

Tanks are ground battle enhancers. They dramatically increase the effectiveness of your ground army. To manufacture tanks you need factories in your cities. Each factory can produce up to 50 tanks per day.

Tanks cost $50 per day in peacetime and $75 per day in wartime. They require 1 Munitions and 1 Gasoline per 100 tanks in battles to operate.

 

Quote

Naval Ships are aquatic vessels used in maritime operations. They are used to blockade nations from trading and damage infrastructure. To manufacture naval ships you need Drydocks in your cities. Each Drydock can produce up to 1 ship per day.

Naval Ships cost $3,750 per day in peacetime and $5,625 per day in wartime. They require 3 Munitions and 2 Gasoline each in battles to operate.

 

I guess you're supposed to like on them to figure it out in the cost menu[3] but I don't think that's really a good idea cause I know other players will be like me and assume they don't cost any material to produce and make one without seeing the material cost and getting frustrated when you go to build your shiny new tank or plane to find it needs more materials than what you signed up for. So that's another little thing that could use fixing just put something like

Quote

"Aircraft are used for bombing runs on enemy nations and to defend against bombing runs at home. They are excellent at destroying infrastructure, improvements, and stockpiles. You can only build a maximum of 3 aircraft per day per Hangar. Your production rate and maximum capacity are both dependent on your population, with a ceiling achieved when population meets or exceeds 1,000 citizens per Aircraft. Because you can't build an army overnight, the trick is to find an amount that can function as an adequate defense if you're attacked but not too costly in upkeep. To create a unit requires 5 Aluminum and $4,000 per aircraft and to operate aircraft require 1 Gasoline and 1 Munitions per 4 aircraft. To decommission aircraft, enter a negative value in the input box. Decommissioning units refunds 75% of the resources but no money. "

 

However in the current description is does not mention this disparity only mentioning gasoline and munitions which I stocked up on for this exact scenario. When I said I didn't like disparity between oil and coal because it makes my country unable to gain independence from the market because I have no way to reliably make gasoline without trading? This is quadruple the case when I can''t even make basic weapons without resources I *can't* produce. it makes it impossible for me to make a reliably staffed air force and tanks require bauxite to make the tank maker at all. This it makes it impossible for me as iron producing player to reliably or independently[4] get any tanks or planes at all leaving my army terribly short, I really do not like this and wish there was some way for me to make another military unit without having to import 90% of the materials from other countries, I wish to be able to make a independent nation without entirely depending on help from the market to make a single tank or plane. Okay I should note Navy fighters which I guess is supposed to be the counter argument, it 1 still requires bauxite though I guess more fair, it too requires gasoline something I have to import but that's another subject, but that's also 2-1 for not bauxite processor and I still need to import 20 bauxite just to make a drydock, but that is at least more fair in that way, but yeah that's all make better parody between Iron/Bauxite and possibly Coal/Oil too that's all hope this helps make the game a better place to play.

TL:DR: Bauxite players have clear and definite advantages in military and other aspects of the game due to them not needing to import nearly as many resources as Iron players, and that gives them a unfair advantage in the meta-game I think this should be balanced so that both sides have important advantages and disadvantages and may still need to trade for many resources but at an equal amount. In the current game this is not the case and gives bauxite players a unfair advantage to bauxite players and this should be amended. This is also the case in coal/oil to a lesser extent.   

Okay I'm coming back to this post to round up some often repeated comments and address them in full.

[1]:

Quote

"What materials you produce are based on what continent you are on if you want aluminum you can just MOVE"

Response : l am sorry for this erroneous statement from the first version of this post I have updated it with the correct information, I was unaware of this  fact when making this post but this does not change the argument drastically. now let's talk about this frankly ridiculous comment that if I wanted the other resource to just MOVE CONTINENTS. This is not an option, for basically any country actually roleplaying the game out, thanks to cultural differences Asian, American, and European nations act differently form one and other, and specifically in my case I'm a alt-history nation, I'm am taking the place of old east Prussia from 1938 Germany, I can't move more than a few miles while staying accurate to my nations history, this should be obvious to anyone who bothers to read my nations factbook, I like many nations can't move or completely ruin the roleplaying of our nations this is not an option, if I were to say move to Russia, I would stop being New Great Prussia, and I'd start being random nation in Russia, This is not a valid option for 90% of countries and you should be well aware of this. This is not an argument and should be dismissed.

[2]:

Quote

"If you could use Iron/Steel for anything of use you would lose the whole market aspect of the game"

Response: I am well aware of the market and I use it often but making iron useful does not get rid of the use of the market, note nowhere in this message do I claim that all materials should be able to make all items, that's not what I am saying at all, I agree that you shouldn't be able to make everything on your own and should have to import to make somethings, I am saying that the ratio of things that require importing is unbalanced between Iron and Bauxite producers, this is just fact if you look at these things, 2-1 in military and plenty more discrepancies if you look, this is also the case with coal/oil, it's just not as advantageous to have coal/iron as it is to have oil/bauxite they have a unfair advantage in the way they are able to make a significant larger amount of things without having to rely on the market for imports, I agree both them and myself should HAVE to use the market for some things, but that is not the same as having 66.6%  of the game locked of from them without constant costly imports from others, that is not the same. I agree there should require some amount of market use for certain things, but it should be fair and equal between set-ups and not give a clear and definite advantage to one group of players than another, this is unfair balancing and shouldn't be the case.  

[3]

Quote

"You should look at the cost menu first before making something"

Response: This is probably the most fair and just criticism I've received to this point, and I'll concede yes it's due diligence and should be the case that anyone making something look in the cost menu first. However some won't and while they should obviously assumed it costs money to make things, knowing whether or not it costs additional resources to produce units is another story and should be clearly marked  on the page.

[5]

Quote

"Independence is not the goal/Join an alliance/raid people"

Response: Alliances are a big part of the game I agree but shouldn't be *mandatory* to a prosperous country I think that is ridiculous and shouldn't be a requirement, it should help sure but requiring an alliances is shooting in the foot any introverted nation or, roleplay-wise any isolationist nation, they should be able to play the nation accurately and still be successful as a nation. 

Raiding people, is not independent, what I mean by independent in terms of this post is financially *and* resourcefully stable, meaning no importing/raiding for more resources you should be able to make everything you need or at least most of what you need at home without having to rely on others, this doesn't mean you should be able to make *anything* or that *nothing should require trading* as some have incorrectly assumed my post means, but that should mean in the day to day you should be able to staff and maintain your army or go to war or build new cities without having to rely on the resources of other players or the market to stay stable, you should be able to go to war and use your army without having to import oil for every single battle you want to do. that gives an unfair advantage to those who can produce oil getting it for free not having to import and a unfair disadvantage to non-oil players who will be pooer in general because they *must* import oil to go to war, this makes it harder to be a non-oil producing country and disturbs the meta-game making it just plainly strategically advantageous to move to a different continent or stay out of Europe if you want to have a better chance of funding your army or make it through battles without having to buy tankards of oil to survive. I think that even just as a end=game thing the ability to use coal in some manner instead would be more helpful to balancing their interaction, and I'm not even saying you have to let use use it on everything, what if you made it so navy ships, which historically run on coal used coal instead of oil and it can still be 2-1 but it at least means that non-oil producing countries can reasonably and independently support a navy without the reliance on others to buy stuff or gain the resources required to make their ships go.  and make us import to have ground tanks or airplanes, sure that's fair that makes a good meta-game and promotes trading and alliances like you want but it at least means solo coal users can reliably survive on their own without having to go into debt to buu the oil to fund their war machine. that is all.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Chancellor Gottfried
Okay I'm editing this due to the repeated correction that resources aren't random they're tied to your continent and that if I wanted to have bauxite I could just MOVE CONTINENTS and adressing how crazy that is by a roleplaying perspective, and addressing

[Kurdanak]

Okay, so, a few things to work through from this post. First, it's not a random chance at all which resource you can produce. It's based, as shown when choosing your nation location, on continent. See the chart on: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/edit/map/

Also, while the military improvements might require aluminum (factories, also not bauxite) or steel (hangers), you'll indeed note that tanks require steel and planes require aluminum. The unit descriptions you quoted do note state this in itself, that's true, but the "Manufacture Cost" on the purchase screen clearly does. When you put in a number to manufacture, it explicitly tells you what is required next to "Calculated Cost" - I think the layout is pretty intuitive and I've honestly never come across anyone ever mistaking that they cost nothing (because, well, that wouldn't make any sense in terms of balance).

I understand the appeal of being entirely independent, but that's simply not how the game works, which I find to be quite intentional. The game is designed to create the need to coordinate with others for resource acquisition and mutual protection through alliances, otherwise the global market and alliances would be largely meaningless. I recommend joining an alliance to learn how to play the game effectively. You're figuring it out on your own to a certain extent, anyone can, but it's much more effective and a far more productive experience to learn from and work with others. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Kurdanak

[lightside]

its not a random choice. The continent you are at determines which resources you can make. So if you want to make differen't things then move. We also have the market for a reason. If you need raws to make something then buy it or just buy the manufactured good directly. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by lightside

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

that was short for you?

[Wendell]

The definition of a text wall. Featureless, can't have a meaningful conversation , large, and plain. 

On 2/2/2021 at 12:36 PM, Chancellor Gottfried said:

Making it more readable adding quotes and fixing the flow a bit. Fixing the quotes to be only the size they need to be to make it look neater.

Wow I'm SO glad you did THIS!!!! It's like adding a fresh coat of white paint to an already white wall. 

[Jangles]

Stopped reading past the first sentences. Resources arent random, amd if you want to be independent raid resources from other players. If they deserved it they wouldnt lose.

[Kurdanak]

Replying is way more noticeable than editing your responses into the OP, btw, though I'm glad you at least removed the part about keeping it short.  But I'll try to read through it all and respond soon enough.

[Sir Scarfalot]

See, this is why I went to South America at the start and stayed there forever: You can domestically produce aircraft, soldiers and missiles, and use them, without relying on imports whatsoever.

Africa can build nuclear weapons domestically, but that's it. Europe and North America can produce tanks and ships domestically, but cannot produce the resources necessary to actually use them in combat.

Everyone can produce and use soldiers, but without lead and therefore munitions they won't fight as well as they ought to. Still works surprisingly efficiently, however.

Even still, though, there's almost no reason to actually attempt to be an autarky. The main reason is to mitigate the problems of being under constant blockade, but if you just join an alliance (and don't cheese people off to an overwhelmingly insane degree), then you're not going to have that level of enmity brought to bear against you (at least not permanently). Thus, just produce the stuff you can produce, then sell whatever of that you don't need and with those proceeds purchase whatever you need that you cannot produce.

Now, you are in Europe, so you're able to produce coal, iron, lead and food. That means in terms of useful resources, you can power yourself using coal (try to stick to multiples of 500 infrastructure, that 550 isn't doing you any favors really), and you can produce steel and munitions. That said, your nation is too tiny and doesn't have the foundational projects needed to actually produce steel, munitions or food on a competitive level. Bigger nations produce way more food per farm especially, and literally everyone can produce food (outside of apocalyptic scenarios that happen every other year or so), which means that the market is saturated and food is always going to be affordable and efficient to import.

Thing is, while larger and older nations have more productive factories, they also have a greater demand for resources than they can usually support domestically. Lead especially is something that major munitions producers always have to import if they want to produce at their fullest potential, and munitions are always needed for all forms of warfare (outside of similarly apocalyptic scenarios, but don't worry about those), so lead is always a winner in terms of an export resource. Oil not so much, since major gasoline producers (like myself) are capable of running 100% efficiency off their own oil wells. I'm not entirely sure about the coal and iron markets, but basically: lead. Lead lead lead. Lead is money, it never isn't.

Perhaps more to the point, though: join an alliance, bub! It's theoretically possible to survive on your lonesome, but these days it just isn't reasonable.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Sir Scarfalot