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Using bots to fight wars


Isjaki
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5 minutes ago, Borg said:

Hi. I have alerts, locutus checks every 30s. I still perform the attacks myself. 

The alerts part isn't really problematic. The problematic part is the reaction times to said alerts. Unless you are awake and on the war page 24/7. Which, like I said, is unlikely.

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9 minutes ago, PhantomThiefB said:

I would question the fair play in this instance too, to be frank this is akin to walking a tightrope with blades underneath instead of a net as far as cheating goes.. @Alex

To be frank, a lot many people/alliances have similar tools. However, the reaction times naturally vary due to real life human limitations, from anything between a few minutes to several hours. So much so, I have NEVER been sniped while buying units at a time separate from the day change, in all my years of playing Politics & War. 

Thus, I was naturally intrigued when my units were sniped away almost immediately after creation, especially since the buy time was random.

It was possible to spy away nukes and missiles immediately after creation earlier, due to the large volume of players who are in an alliance (at least one guy might be online to do the sniping).

However, when it comes to sniping units, only Borg can do it alone, and it's very unlikely for them to be alert and online at any random time I buy my units.

Edited by Isjaki
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30 minutes ago, Isjaki said:

To be frank, a lot many people/alliances have similar tools. However, the reaction times naturally vary due to real life human limitations, from anything between a few minutes to several hours. So much so, I have NEVER been sniped while buying units at a time separate from the day change, in all my years of playing Politics & War. 

Thus, I was naturally intrigued when my units were sniped away almost immediately after creation.

 

38 minutes ago, PhantomThiefB said:

I would question the fair play in this instance too, to be frank this is akin to walking a tightrope with blades underneath instead of a net as far as cheating goes.. @Alex

Edit 2 : Okay I should clarify, what I got out of Borgs message is that this bot is telling him exactly when your logged in, exactly when you buy military etc, that's more or less what I assume Borg means, if it's just notifying him of a war dec then that's whatever but that's how I took it. In case anyone finds my post too ambiguous. 

Edit 3 : Also sorry alex/mods for posting, I know I should have made my own topic about this since I feel it shouldn't be allowed, however I have no issue with Borg, just the tech itself and thus don't wish to create a second ticket.

Edited by PhantomThiefB
Disclaimer, I don't care whose using it, I still question it's usage.
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26 minutes ago, Isjaki said:

To be frank, a lot many people/alliances have similar tools. However, the reaction times naturally vary due to real life human limitations, from anything between a few minutes to several hours. So much so, I have NEVER been sniped while buying units at a time separate from the day change, in all my years of playing Politics & War. 

Thus, I was naturally intrigued when my units were sniped away almost immediately after creation, especially since the buy time was random.

It was possible to spy away nukes and missiles immediately after creation earlier, due to the large volume of players who are in an alliance (at least one guy might be online to do the sniping).

However, when it comes to sniping units, only Borg can do it alone, and it's very unlikely for them to be alert and online at any random time I buy my units.

 

Depends how much time he's either at his phone or at his computer. If he's on a lot, the "incredibly unlikely" might actually go to "likely". Having been struck twice, I can see why you might assume that he did it by bot, but people should be presumed innocent until proven guilty and I think it's quite likely that he's just close to a cell phone or computer a lot of the time. 

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2 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 

Depends how much time he's either at his phone or at his computer. If he's on a lot, the "incredibly unlikely" might actually go to "likely". Having been struck twice, I can see why you might assume that he did it by bot, but people should be presumed innocent until proven guilty and I think it's quite likely that he's just close to a cell phone or computer a lot of the time. 

Close enough to attack in 5 seconds? Suuurrree... 

People spend a third of their 24 hours sleeping anyway. Plus, I'm not calling for Borg to be punished, I'm merely calling for the issue to be investigated. Also, this is a no discussion forum, and if you have nothing to add for either side, it would be appreciated if you don't comment here.

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11 hours ago, Isjaki said:

Offending nation name: Borg

Offender nation link: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=189573

War link: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=827479

There were two instances of botting. In the first case, I had purchased soldiers immediately after my day change, only for them to be airstriked away within the span of a few seconds. I assumed this incident to be alertness on the part of my opponent, since it's possible to find out the daily buy time of a nation, and stalk their nation/war page during that time, and snipe a buy immediately after it's made.

In the second case, I, careful after my first sniping experience, purchased my units at a random time, several hours after my day change. And this time too, they were sniped away within the span of a few seconds.

Even if someone was to code a tool which refreshes the API every few seconds, and gives you an alert whenever your opponent makes a buy, it still begs the question, how did the attacks happen in the span of a few seconds?

While alertness can be a viable reason for the first case, the chances of alertness being the reason for the second attack are naturally microscopic.

All the same, I am aware that my evidence is completely circumstantial, and while it's extremely likely that my opponent used a bot to fight for them, it has not been proven beyond doubt.

Thus, I would request @Alex to investigate this issue and take appropriate action to ensure that humans, and not bots, fight wars.

I have a timestamp of 2021-01-02 10:08:04 on you buying soldiers. I don't even see a war between you and Borg that he could have airstriked you in.

The next airstrike you defended against happened at 2021-01-02 11:14:43, which is over an hour later.

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

I have a timestamp of 2021-01-02 10:08:04 on you buying soldiers. I don't even see a war between you and Borg that he could have airstriked you in.

The next airstrike you defended against happened at 2021-01-02 11:14:43, which is over an hour later.

The war in question is slightly older than that, it was over on 2020-12-29

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I airstriked soon after he made them, see the war linked by OP. I setup alerts to link me to the airstrike page when he bought soldiers. no clue how logs will prove anything besides that I performed airstrikes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 
I guess its similar to how ppl winged during global about cheating when they got slotted immediately after leaving beige at random times

game mechanic wise, if you dont want quick timing to give anyone advantage, attacks could be queued to run during turn change. 

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11 hours ago, Isjaki said:

The war in question is slightly older than that, it was over on 2020-12-29

Ah sorry, thank you for clarifying.

I pulled timestamps on everything to get an idea of how quick Borg was able to do the airstrikes after you bought soldiers.

You bought soldiers on 12-27 10:04:31 and then Borg did the next airstrike at 10:05:13, or 42 seconds later.

You bought soldiers again on 12-28 19:09:00 and then Borg did the next airstrike at 19:09:27, or 27 seconds later.

I'm inclined to believe Borg's story that it's not a script but rather a notification service because I imagine if you were going to write a script to do the attacks, you'd want it to work pretty much right away rather than 27-42 seconds later. IMO that is probably enough time to do an attack before he airstriked you if you were really quick about it (not blaming you, just saying that the optimal script would eliminate that possibility.)

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

Ah sorry, thank you for clarifying.

I pulled timestamps on everything to get an idea of how quick Borg was able to do the airstrikes after you bought soldiers.

You bought soldiers on 12-27 10:04:31 and then Borg did the next airstrike at 10:05:13, or 42 seconds later.

You bought soldiers again on 12-28 19:09:00 and then Borg did the next airstrike at 19:09:27, or 27 seconds later.

I'm inclined to believe Borg's story that it's not a script but rather a notification service because I imagine if you were going to write a script to do the attacks, you'd want it to work pretty much right away rather than 27-42 seconds later. IMO that is probably enough time to do an attack before he airstriked you if you were really quick about it (not blaming you, just saying that the optimal script would eliminate that possibility.)

Alright, thanks!

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On 1/3/2021 at 10:16 AM, Alex said:

I'm inclined to believe Borg's story that it's not a script but rather a notification service because I imagine if you were going to write a script to do the attacks, you'd want it to work pretty much right away rather than 27-42 seconds later. IMO that is probably enough time to do an attack before he airstriked you if you were really quick about it (not blaming you, just saying that the optimal script would eliminate that possibility.)

Begging your pardon, but wouldn't a botter want their script to be stealthy and therefore set it up to emulate a player's input by simply using a randomized delay?

I'd still say that 27 seconds is indeed basically sufficient to take actions using stacked MAPs, yes, but I'd rather you be cognizant of the potential workaround to your decision here.

 

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2 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Begging your pardon, but wouldn't a botter want their script to be stealthy and therefore set it up to emulate a player's input by simply using a randomized delay?

I'd still say that 27 seconds is indeed basically sufficient to take actions using stacked MAPs, yes, but I'd rather you be cognizant of the potential workaround to your decision here.

Basically Alex has now put on public record that if you're gonna bot, make the minimum response time 27 seconds.

Maybe we should really apply CAPTCHAs to all war actions, trades and anything else abusable by automation. I'd rather a little more inconvenience to ensure we're not being taken advantage of by bots.

EDIT: Oh, this is a game report. Sorry. Please delete?

Edited by Zephyr
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15 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Begging your pardon, but wouldn't a botter want their script to be stealthy and therefore set it up to emulate a player's input by simply using a randomized delay?

I'd still say that 27 seconds is indeed basically sufficient to take actions using stacked MAPs, yes, but I'd rather you be cognizant of the potential workaround to your decision here.

 

Yes, and I did consider this. But like I said, I think you'd still want a shorter window than 27-42 seconds.

This is a no-discussion forum, so I'm locking this thread - feel free to create a new discussion in a relevant subforum if you so desire.

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