Peace at last - what have we learned?

[Phoenyx]

 

I am definitely glad that the global war has finally ended. However, I think some of the more thoughtful among may want to reflect on one thing- should this war have ever started?

 

For a long time now, I have focused on 2 questions, one for each side of this war. The 1st is for the Quack side: the issue of why Boyce came say what may have been fateful words, namely that he believed that TCW/HM/Swamp would attack Quack in December/January. I'm not saying that there was no validity in what he said, but was it -completely- valid? A question that I, at least, think should be better explored. I made a thread exploring Boyce's words here:

 

Much the same thing happened on the other side, this time in regards to something Ronnie, the leader of Grumpy said, and his source. I get into this in another thread:

 

 

Too often, people take what amounts to rumours and run with them. I think the name that this war was given, "The Leaky Faucet War", while certainly illuminating a certain part of the war, may not draw enough attention to the fact that leaks and rumours are frequently sprinkled with false information. Perhaps another title for the war could end up being "The broken telephone war", after the broken telephone effect.

 

Now, the easy thing would be to downvote this thread, or ignore it. A bit more work would be to insult me or the thread. But I think in order to avoid wars like this, where everyone thinks the other guy is the one to blame, these questions shouldn't just be asked- serious effort should also be put into answering them. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Phoenyx

[NarWhale]

Trash

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by NarWhale

[Polar Bear ArcticExplorer]

You know it's bad when within the first minute of a post there's a downvote lol.

[Wizel16]

[BigMorf]

STOP STOP THE WAR's ALREADY DEAD

[Phoenyx]

2 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

STOP STOP THE WAR's ALREADY DEAD

 

Yes, this war is over. All I'm asking is, what did we learn, and is there still more we can learn from it?

6 minutes ago, Polar Bear ArcticExplorer said:

You know it's bad when within the first minute of a post there's a downvote lol.

 

Reminds me of some lines from one of Frank Hebert's Dune books:

**

“Beware of the truth, gentle Sister. Although much sought after, truth can be dangerous to the seeker. Myths and reassuring lies are much easier to find and believe. If you find a truth, even a temporary one, it can demand that you make painful changes. 

**

 

I think many prefer to just kill the messenger.

 

[Changeup]

Alright, who forgot to make a Phoenyx gag order part of the peace treaty?

[WarriorSoul]

25 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

should this war have ever started?

yes, welcome to nation sims, this is how it goes

[Nordsland]

1)This is a game about building a nation and going to war
2)War is fun
3) War can happen for no good reason because #2

Edited December 15, 2020 by Nordsland

[Phoenyx]

19 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

yes, welcome to nation sims, this is how it goes

I know. I just think we could still learn form this war.

4 minutes ago, Nordsland said:

1)This is a game about building a nation and going to war
2)War is fun
3) War can happen for no good reason because #2

 

There are small wars, perhaps some pirates attacking, perhaps 2 Alliances going at it, and then there are big, global wars. The small ones, perhaps not worth too much attention, but a global, that involves a -lot- of Alliances and I definitely think there are some lessons we can still learn from it. Ofcourse, it takes 2 to tango. If no one else is investigating certain loose ends from the war, then that'll be the end of it. 

[Sir Scarfalot]

6 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

I wanna still post irrelevant nonsense

Stop it

[Phoenyx]

1 minute ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Stop it

 

You know, I find it rather ironic that the Quack side started with "Oh, the non quack side is censoring too much" and now it's like you guys just want to do the same thing. If you don't want to listen to what I have to say, no one's forcing you to read my posts, let alone respond to them. 

[Sir Scarfalot]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

 

You know, I find it rather ironic that the Quack side started with "Oh, the non quack side is censoring too much" and now it's like you guys just want to do the same thing. If you don't want to listen to what I have to say, no one's forcing you to read my posts, let alone respond to them. 

...No, it's not a matter of 'censorship', it's a matter of you making a complete and, much more importantly, intentional fool of yourself. We can suffer fools, if not gladly... but when you deliberately insist on stupidity despite all efforts on your behalf, then you're just being insulting. And that, I shall indeed rebuke you for.

[zigbigadorlou]

58 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 Perhaps another title for the war could end up being "The broken telephone war", after the broken telephone effect.

I think "the Phoenyx war" would be just as apt

[Phoenyx]

32 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said:

I think "the Phoenyx war" would be just as apt

 

Lol :-p. But no, I had nothing to do with the initiation of this war. I certainly put a lot of effort into trying to achieve peace, though it's clear that many didn't appreciate my efforts in this regard. And it seems equally clear that others don't like the fact that I continue to bring up issues regarding this war. I think the points I raise are worth bringing up despite stiff opposition from certain quarters to me doing so, however, and so I do.

36 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

...No, it's not a matter of 'censorship', it's a matter of you making a complete and, much more importantly, intentional fool of yourself. 

 

You know, a long time ago, I told Rose's Valk, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." I'm not afraid to ask the questions that others, for whatever reason, choose not to. You can keep on beating around the bush, refusing to deal with what I think is the -real- reason that you dislike my posts. That's your call to make, but so long as there are a few brave souls who are willing to explore issues that most want to avoid even thinking about and I'm not censored from doing so, I'll continue to ask these questions and look for their answers.

[Benfro]

50 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

There are small wars, perhaps some pirates attacking, perhaps 2 Alliances going at it, and then there are big, global wars. The small ones, perhaps not worth too much attention, but a global, that involves a -lot- of Alliances and I definitely think there are some lessons we can still learn from it. Ofcourse, it takes 2 to tango. If no one else is investigating certain loose ends from the war, then that'll be the end of it. 

There have been an average of more than 2 global wars per calendar year that this game has existed. This is nothing new and how the game works.

[WarriorSoul]

53 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 

You know, I find it rather ironic that the Quack side started with "Oh, the non quack side is censoring too much" and now it's like you guys just want to do the same thing. If you don't want to listen to what I have to say, no one's forcing you to read my posts, let alone respond to them. 

I actually have no idea why I continue to do this, but for the fact that I like to hear myself speak, but no one's trying to censor you. But you're on here arguing with people who have been playing this game and its predecessor(s) for significant parts of two decades who are trying to explain to you, to absolutely no avail, that this is just how things go.

You could spend another half dozen threads "investigating" the causes for this war. Wars are constantly manufactured because a) people are always looking to cut down other alliances/spheres and b) folks get hella bored with no war.

So many people have asked that you just listen, but you have thus far refused, so now they just ask you to shut up, which has proven equally fruitless. Nobody wants to hear about "censorship" when you've cranked out nearly 500 posts in 3 months.

Edited December 15, 2020 by WarriorSoul

[Arawra]

It's not censorship, it's a warrant for your arrest. You're disturbing the peace!

[Spukey]

Did you enjoy the war, Phoenyx? Or at the very least do you enjoy wartime more than peacetime?

[dtc justice]

So phoenyx, am I understanding you correctly when you say you think there shouldn't be any wars that include basically all top 50 alliances?

[Mayor]

5 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

But I think in order to avoid wars like this, where everyone thinks the other guy is the one to blame, these questions shouldn't just be asked- serious effort should also be put into answering them. 

First of all, a lot of us specifically don't want to avoid wars like this and put serious effort into starting wars. No matter the war someone is always salty about it (the blame game). As many have stated before wars in this game basically start for no reason at all.

You may associate Arrgh with complete and utter anarchy and mindless raiding but it used to be a more organized and traditional alliance (still raided). Many wars were started because whoever was in charge decided it was a great idea when drunk. Jacob Hanson declared war on Rose, DEIC, and UPN all at the same time because he was wasted and slowly walked that back over the next day (we still totally destroyed DEIC though). Many Arrgh wars started simply because the other person was weaker or isolated and we thought we could take them down. Sometimes the leader hated some alliance and attacked them for a personal reason. I personally had a vendetta with Grealind and another guy called George Clooney and I did everything in my power to destroy those guys alliances when I was in government in Roz Wei, Arrgh, and Rose.

I mean with George specifically I ruthlessly raided his alliance NAC, then they merged into DEIC to form Acadia and I raided those guys until they formed a military bloc with someone else. Sometimes if I could get help I would and get help on my raids or hire mercs. He definitely remembered this over the years. All alliances I was in gov with were never allied to George or Acadia and fought them several times in official alliance/global wars. The only time I fought on the side of Acadia I believe was the other Knightfall war and some of the other NAC guys and me chatted (the first time we did as allies after years of conflict) but of course George never said a word and neither did I since you gotta keep that rivalry going to the bitter end.

In the end wars start because they are fun or you don't like the other guy or some other alliance and want to wreck them in a period of weakness or revenge for past wars or really any other reason. There are so many reasons to fight that it is kind of silly to think that these kind of wars could ever be avoided. Though I do think that you probably would have liked the GPA if it was still around.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Mayor
typo

[Harry Flashman]

It’s time Phoenyx, why don’t we let them all in on the joke? We agreed to release you from TFP and onto the forums to wear them all down with mental disintegration.  We did it old chum, you’re a war hero.

[Viselli]

6 hours ago, zigbigadorlou said:

I think "the Phoenyx war" would be just as apt

More like the Phoenyx Wont Stop Talking War

[Phoenyx]

6 hours ago, Benfro said:

There have been an average of more than 2 global wars per calendar year that this game has existed. This is nothing new and how the game works.

Sure, and I imagine lessons can be learned from all of them. I wasn't involved in the previous wars, but I was in this one, so that's the war I'm focusing on.

[NeonCloud]

 heres a reply that has nothing to do with the "lessons" phoenyx wants to teach us, enjoy!