Where to now, Immortals and TFP?

[Phoenyx]

1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

Yes, you posted threads. I disagreed with all of them ;).

Our investigation was enough, and was later proven correct.

 

Well, it's easy for you to -say- that your investigation was enough, but I've never seen any evidence that HM/TCW/Swamp was going to attack Quack in December or early January. 

6 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Alex and the moderators are not players (technically the moderators are players, but when they're moderating the idea is that they're impartial and a completely separate persona). "don't/do this or kick" is the 2nd most severe penalty that an alliance can levy against anyone. The most severe penalty is doing that plus also attacking the transgressor on the way out. Either way, a "stop posting or leave alliance" statement, obeyed or not, still constitutes an order with all that implies.

...

...Also I'm pretty ding dang sure you DID get the moderators to weigh in on your spam at least once, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, the -moderator- action was serious in my eyes, which is why I appealed the decision and Alex was gracious enough to have my thread reinstated if moved, which was fine by me. 

[Phoenyx]

6 hours ago, Leftbehind said:

No, there is a difference between the rules of our creator and rules of us mere mortals. 

 

Agreed on that point. Mere mortals I can simply sidestep around. The creator and his mods I have to reach an agreement with to be here.

6 hours ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

"I'll dispute what's universally known as a gag order in this game so that my former AA doesn't look as bad for gagging me."

 

I must admit this made me laugh :-p. But hey, what's a gag order between friends :-)? I'm still paying off my debt with TFP- they leant me the resources to get Urban Planning. They were nice about it and didn't charge me interest. I like to think it's because they realize that I share many of their ideals, it's just that when it came to communicating, I had to do things my way.

[Phoenyx]

1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

Our investigation was enough, and was later proven correct. The faillure on part of the opposition to be in any way consistent with regards to *events that occurred* ((facts, not reasons/opinions) is a direct validation of our assessment and the decision on which we based it.

Looks like you added a bit here, so will add to my response-

my guess is that you are referring to Ronnie's statement. I definitely believe that this is your strongest argument and where it's most obvious that there is a rift on our side. It's why I have struggled so hard to try to get Ronnie's story to harmonize with Tyrion's. Ronnie's shown a lot of resistance to my efforts and Tyrion has decided he doesn't think it's worth the effort to try to persuade him himself. These choices are theirs to make, but I certainly won't forget about this rift. I've brought it up with many people and I don't think I'll be stopping any time soon. 

[Shiho Nishizumi]

43 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

I must admit this made me laugh :-p. But hey, what's a gag order between friends :-)? I'm still paying off my debt with TFP- they leant me the resources to get Urban Planning. They were nice about it and didn't charge me interest. I like to think it's because they realize that I share many of their ideals, it's just that when it came to communicating, I had to do things my way.

You're in an alliance which is in their sphere. They won't rock the boat and cause rift with their ally over a such a sum.

[Avakael]

On 12/8/2020 at 1:38 AM, Phoenyx said:

Speaking as a member of an Immortals Protectorate and a former member of TFP, I am hoping that we get some news as to what they are planning on doing now. The first thing that springs to mind is if this changes things in relation to their current war with Quack. 

Why do you speak at all?

[Phoenyx]

8 hours ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

You won't get much of worth from an opinologue that's so out of the loop where he's still unironically sporting a roqbot themed avatar.

 

 

Challenge accepted 🙂

3 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

@phoenyx I wouldn't mind fist. He's been out of the game for over a year, is out of the loop, but seems to have developed a hate boner for me at random. A bit strange given he was once an ally and trustee. 

 

I'm trying to remember your conversations with him- I think this animosity he's gotten to you developed over a misunderstanding with him. But I wasn't really following his conversations with you that closely and it's possible I got mixed up with a conversation he was having with someone else. So I thought I'd ask him and see what he says. 

[Phoenyx]

1 hour ago, Avakael said:

Why do you speak at all?

Why do you?

[Prefonteen]

1 hour ago, Phoenyx said:

 

Challenge accepted 🙂

 

I'm trying to remember your conversations with him- I think this animosity he's gotten to you developed over a misunderstanding with him. But I wasn't really following his conversations with you that closely and it's possible I got mixed up with a conversation he was having with someone else. So I thought I'd ask him and see what he says. 

Shrug. You're free to do as you will, though it'd probably be a good idea to do that in private or elsewhere, as it's likely to derail the thread.

[Phoenyx]

45 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Shrug. You're free to do as you will, though it'd probably be a good idea to do that in private or elsewhere, as it's likely to derail the thread.

 

Though people may gasp in horror, I might actually make a new thread if he actually responds in kind :-p. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Phoenyx

[Sphinx]

9 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

snip

Hi Fist... Its been awhile... was speaking to Felkey yesterday he sends his regards.

I heard you were active again on the OWF, so I decided to drop by and see what all the fuss was about. Not trying to start any drama but I'm honestly curious why you're still referencing years old re-hashed IQ era attack pieces against various Quack gov members? Attacking Partisan is also something I find exceedingly amusing coming from you, since Parti is the sole reason your 2nd attempt at Pantheon managed to survive as long as it did. Since without that M level from t$ back in 2018, you'd have been ground into dust by EMC after what happened in that government coup. Even though t$ obviously wanted Pantheon as a meat shield, they still did you a massive favour back then. So I'm not really sure what they did to deserve all your venom which you've been given them as of late. 

Honestly mate, you probably should let this go and just move on. You're not really going to convince anyone with continual outbursts on the OWF. 

EDIT: Or why not come back to the game and become a pirate or something...

Regardless though, hope IRL's treating you well. 

16 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

Looks like you added a bit here, so will add to my response-

my guess is that you are referring to Ronnie's statement. I definitely believe that this is your strongest argument and where it's most obvious that there is a rift on our side. It's why I have struggled so hard to try to get Ronnie's story to harmonize with Tyrion's. Ronnie's shown a lot of resistance to my efforts and Tyrion has decided he doesn't think it's worth the effort to try to persuade him himself. These choices are theirs to make, but I certainly won't forget about this rift. I've brought it up with many people and I don't think I'll be stopping any time soon. 

Hey Phoenyx, don't think we've ever spoken before (Assuming you aren't an Inst re-roll.). But I figured it might be worthwhile in providing you some context or information for you to sink your teeth into. However you decide to interpret this, is upto you. I've got no responsibilities since I've left the game so I can speak more frankly and openly (You're free to disregard what I say here. But as I've left the game there's no reason for me to lie about this. So this is entirely the truth from my perspective.). If you want to discuss things further with me, hit me up on Discord (Sphinx#0497) and I'd be happy to chat about whatever you wish. 

After global war 15, I took stock of the political landscape in-which we (tCW) emerged from. Our sphere had taken a pretty extensive drubbing, and so it was decided that trying to maintain a sphere outside the other 4 spheres would be non-viable (We were by a fairly large margin the smallest sphere in most metrics. With maybe total member count being 2nd smallest in front of Hedge. However Hedge's massive whale tier advantage more than offset that.). I reached out to Swamp because I had a previous history with several of them, I liked the way they conducted themselves during the war, and they had alliances values and motivations which aligned with our own. After a couple weeks of discussions we eventually come to an agreement and signed an M level with Swamp. 

Yes Quack was mentioned several times during those discussions. But nothing in them entailed mentions of coalitions or preventative planning against them. Yes its 100% true that, I viewed Quack a potential threat early on, mainly due to their weight of numbers, (Unlike Swamp, Quack's numbers were comprised of far more experienced rank and file and alliance leadership. Many of whom had been in over half a dozen global wars. Where as most of Swamp were barely even a year old.) extensive WC reserves, and a strong cohesion among the sphere. It was a pretty common observation that most people in the game felt Quack could take on 2 other spheres with ease and beat them pretty decisively. Whilst a viewed them as a threat, that does not imply I had any intention on attempting to challenge them. or facilitate the building of a coalition against them. As we had only recently finished another global war, we had no interest in embarking upon another anytime soon. What I said to Boyce, might give you that impression but you need to read it with the necessary context. Boyce and I have a long history together, we've known each other in this game for several years (Which does only make him leaking stuff even more disgraceful IMO), he made it know to me that he also viewed Quack pretty poorly and blamed them for scapegoating TEst post NPOLT as a cause to drop their Protectorate. He often times spoke rather negatively of Quack and expressed to me on numerous occasions his hope in being able to take on Quack, or at least helping in getting them rolled, or his hope that t$/TKR would split. (I purged my chat history with him in late October, but I made copies of what was said for posterity.) Simply put, from my last few months of chat with Boyce (March, 2020 - October 2020. He always spoke of Quack in negative terms.) After global war 15, Boyce came to me and discussed his ideas for having TEst go paperless akin to what Wei had done. We discussed the topic a bit, and it genuinely seemed like something which TEst really wanted to do, however the one thing which was holding them back and which they had concerns over the was the idea of going paperless and thus not wanting to leave us as allies. TEst's incessant desire for raiding and wars eventually grew to weight heavily on us, and combined with the fact that TEst's government leaks were a major reason for Swamp being convinced to join Hedge in attacking us in global war 15. Meant that our relationship as allies was untenable. As TEst had already expressed its hope in wanting to become a paperless alliance, I felt that us joining Swamp and dropping TEst would be a mutual break up, and from Boyce's first reactions it seemed to be rather amicable. My mention of us joining TEst against Quack should a potential coalition materialise was a direct reference to the grievances Boyce held towards Quack, something which I mistakenly though rather little of at the time. Regardless of any coalition forming, it was something which I would envisaged us not being in any position to join until at least well into late 2021, if at all. Since at the time I had far more cause for war against various figures in the coalition against Quack, than I did with any alliance within Quack. Now if Quack maintained its massive size and other spheres continued to beat each other up, then that might be a cause for additional concern. But that's projecting things well into the distant future, the main thing you can take from this Phoenyx, is I had no interest or plans to attack Quack. 

Now with that said its been made aware to me that SRD among others in the coalition made reference to previously unknown talks between Rose, Hedge and/or Swamp forming a coalition against Quack. Putting aside the fact that several of them especially in Hedge would refuse to work with us under our previous leadership. I knew of no discussions about attacking Quack. If Hedge was reaching out to Swamp and Rose, then it was something which we weren't apart of. I haven't read far enough into the story you're trying to argue. But I can't really help you with uncovering this supposed "HM leaker" which I've noticed you mentioning a lot. What I can say is, If the Boyce leaks never happened and Hedge/Swamp/Rose were able to attack Quack en-mass. Then in those circumstances I'd be extremely unlikely if at all, that tCW and its direct allies would be involved against them. Much like Hedge refusing to deal with tCW under my leadership, I'd never accept working with Hedge under any circumstances either. In fact if Quack only attacked Hedge and reached out to me before the war, I'd more willing to join them against Hedge than I would be against Quack. However, tCW is under new leadership and I have no interest to try and influence things over there, so whatever they choose to do now its their call. From what I hear Putmir is doing a very good job, so I'm glad I picked him as my successor. I don't really have any plans to return to the game, at least anytime soon. But I'm certainly glad I'm not dealing with this game's drama anymore as it was far too time intensive than I could afford. I might be back in the future, but for now its rather unlikely. 

For the record, I do sympathise with Quack's position. As I made it clear to several of their leaders in DM's since I quit. I find it rather hypocritical of various parties to parrot their claims of hegemonies in a public environment, when in private they maintain paperless connections. Still all the best Quack in the peace talks. 

EDIT: Now Phoenyx, would that suffice in giving you enough materiel for half a dozen new forum threads? /s 

Oh and regarding the stuff you mentioned about gag orders. Its perfectly reasonable for any alliance to want to keep a united front. Having people speculating on various causes or arguing with allies never turns out well. Its nothing to do with trying to stifle free-speech or cover up things. Its just a normal function of government. If you had issues with CB's or why you're fighting for something you take it up with your alliance. What you were doing on the OWF, when you were in TFP would've caused red flags in all major alliances. The gag orders I imposed on my members when I ran TCW, were always related specifically to that, and it never stopped members from expressing in alliance chat freely their thoughts or views on our current engagements. If you don't believe me regarding my commitment to member free speech, consider that during NPOLT's last time, Curufinwe or Roquentin claimed I was "undermining the unity of the coalition" by refusing to censor Kalev and my other members who posted in the OWF. Granted they wanted Kalev and the others to not post on the OWF entirely. But Kalev despite being an self proclaimed troll knew well enough to never post stuff which might harm his alliance, and contradicting your alliance's messages can more harmful than you might think. To rehash an old WW2 Allied propaganda slogan, "Loose lips sink ships". 
 

13 hours ago, Benfro said:

I rarely post on OWF, but apparently when I do it is in response to off base and factless accusations about me personally and my AA. I have not accused you of anything of that sort, and have only posted about once per week anyhow. My post history is quite easy to review. Smith formally retired from the game several weeks ago due to RL. And TKR has no different access to the mod team than anyone else. 
 

Please point your conspiracy theories elsewhere. I’m sorry it has come to that, but TKR does not want anything to do with it. We in TKR pride ourselves on maintaining strong OOC friendships with almost everyone in the game at this point. My inbox is open if anyone has screenshots or proof of any actual OOC misbehavior. 

Hey Benny..... I didn't know Smith's moved on as well. He was always an excellent representative of the style of TKR's community, its sad to see him go. But I do hope he's getting RL things sorted out now. 

Since leaving this game I got all the remainder of my Thesis prep work finished, and a bunch of pressing RL problems sorted out more or less, so I hope he can tackle whatever's on his plate as well. 

Apologies for typos or other errors that might be present in this spiel.... its late when I wrote this. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Sphinx

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

21 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

It's not like you haven't repeatedly lied and been disingenuous yourself

A multi sphere coalition unified against you, and you say they look like crap when they have different views on the war and lead up to it? LOL. I think if you want to see crap, there should be a mirror in the bathroom for you heh

You know the rules, Fisty. You want an opinion on the forums, you gotta come back to the game. Pantheon may be looking for a new leader. I do have to point out, taking shots at Partisnek isn't a good way to get T$ to protect you again. Just a friendly piece of advice.

19 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

Hi Fist... Its been awhile... was speaking to Felkey yesterday he sends his regards.

I heard you were active again on the OWF, so I decided to drop by and see what all the fuss was about. Not trying to start any drama but I'm honestly curious why you're still referencing years old re-hashed IQ era attack pieces against various Quack gov members? Attacking Partisan is also something I find exceedingly amusing coming from you, since Parti is the sole reason your 2nd attempt at Pantheon managed to survive as long as it did. Since without that M level from t$ back in 2018, you'd have been ground into dust by EMC after what happened in that government coup. Even though t$ obviously wanted Pantheon as a meat shield, they still did you a massive favour back then. So I'm not really sure what they did to deserve all your venom which you've been given them as of late. 

Honestly mate, you probably should let this go and just move on. You're not really going to convince anyone with continual outbursts on the OWF. 

EDIT: Or why not come back to the game and become a pirate or something...

Regardless though, hope IRL's treating you well. 

Hey Phoenyx, don't think we've ever spoken before (Assuming you aren't an Inst re-roll.). But I figured it might be worthwhile in providing you some context or information for you to sink your teeth into. However you decide to interpret this, is upto you. I've got no responsibilities since I've left the game so I can speak more frankly and openly (You're free to disregard what I say here. But as I've left the game there's no reason for me to lie about this. So this is entirely the truth from my perspective.). If you want to discuss things further with me, hit me up on Discord (Sphinx#0497) and I'd be happy to chat about whatever you wish. 

After global war 15, I took stock of the political landscape in-which we (tCW) emerged from. Our sphere had taken a pretty extensive drubbing, and so it was decided that trying to maintain a sphere outside the other 4 spheres would be non-viable (We were by a fairly large margin the smallest sphere in most metrics. With maybe total member count being 2nd smallest in front of Hedge. However Hedge's massive whale tier advantage more than offset that.). I reached out to Swamp because I had a previous history with several of them, I liked the way they conducted themselves during the war, and they had alliances values and motivations which aligned with our own. After a couple weeks of discussions we eventually come to an agreement and signed an M level with Swamp. 

Yes Quack was mentioned several times during those discussions. But nothing in them entailed mentions of coalitions or preventative planning against them. Yes its 100% true that, I viewed Quack a potential threat early on, mainly due to their weight of numbers, (Unlike Swamp, Quack's numbers were comprised of far more experienced rank and file and alliance leadership. Many of whom had been in over half a dozen global wars. Where as most of Swamp were barely even a year old.) extensive WC reserves, and a strong cohesion among the sphere. It was a pretty common observation that most people in the game felt Quack could take on 2 other spheres with ease and beat them pretty decisively. Whilst a viewed them as a threat, that does not imply I had any intention on attempting to challenge them. or facilitate the building of a coalition against them. As we had only recently finished another global war, we had no interest in embarking upon another anytime soon. What I said to Boyce, might give you that impression but you need to read it with the necessary context. Boyce and I have a long history together, we've known each other in this game for several years (Which does only make him leaking stuff even more disgraceful IMO), he made it know to me that he also viewed Quack pretty poorly and blamed them for scapegoating TEst post NPOLT as a cause to drop their Protectorate. He often times spoke rather negatively of Quack and expressed to me on numerous occasions his hope in being able to take on Quack, or at least helping in getting them rolled, or his hope that t$/TKR would split. (I purged my chat history with him in late October, but I made copies of what was said for posterity.) Simply put, from my last few months of chat with Boyce (March, 2020 - October 2020. He always spoke of Quack in negative terms.) After global war 15, Boyce came to me and discussed his ideas for having TEst go paperless akin to what Wei had done. We discussed the topic a bit, and it genuinely seemed like something which TEst really wanted to do, however the one thing which was holding them back and which they had concerns over the was the idea of going paperless and thus not wanting to leave us as allies. TEst's incessant desire for raiding and wars eventually grew to weight heavily on us, and combined with the fact that TEst's government leaks were a major reason for Swamp being convinced to join Hedge in attacking us in global war 15. Meant that our relationship as allies was untenable. As TEst had already expressed its hope in wanting to become a paperless alliance, I felt that us joining Swamp and dropping TEst would be a mutual break up, and from Boyce's first reactions it seemed to be rather amicable. My mention of us joining TEst against Quack should a potential coalition materialise was a direct reference to the grievances Boyce held towards Quack, something which I mistakenly though rather little of at the time. Regardless of any coalition forming, it was something which I would envisaged us not being in any position to join until at least well into late 2021, if at all. Since at the time I had far more cause for war against various figures in the coalition against Quack, than I did with any alliance within Quack. Now if Quack maintained its massive size and other spheres continued to beat each other up, then that might be a cause for additional concern. But that's projecting things well into the distant future, the main thing you can take from this Phoenyx, is I had no interest or plans to attack Quack. 

Now with that said its been made aware to me that SRD among others in the coalition made reference to previously unknown talks between Rose, Hedge and/or Swamp forming a coalition against Quack. Putting aside the fact that several of them especially in Hedge would refuse to work with us under our previous leadership. I knew of no discussions about attacking Quack. If Hedge was reaching out to Swamp and Rose, then it was something which we weren't apart of. I haven't read far enough into the story you're trying to argue. But I can't really help you with uncovering this supposed "HM leaker" which I've noticed you mentioning a lot. What I can say is, If the Boyce leaks never happened and Hedge/Swamp/Rose were able to attack Quack en-mass. Then in those circumstances I'd be extremely unlikely if at all, that tCW and its direct allies would be involved against them. Much like Hedge refusing to deal with tCW under my leadership, I'd never accept working with Hedge under any circumstances either. In fact if Quack only attacked Hedge and reached out to me before the war, I'd more willing to join them against Hedge than I would be against Quack. However, tCW is under new leadership and I have no interest to try and influence things over there, so whatever they choose to do now its their call. From what I hear Putmir is doing a very good job, so I'm glad I picked him as my successor. I don't really have any plans to return to the game, at least anytime soon. But I'm certainly glad I'm not dealing with this game's drama anymore as it was far too time intensive than I could afford. I might be back in the future, but for now its rather unlikely. 

For the record, I do sympathise with Quack's position. As I made it clear to several of their leaders in DM's since I quit. I find it rather hypocritical of various parties to parrot their claims of hegemonies in a public environment, when in private they maintain paperless connections. Still all the best Quack in the peace talks. 

EDIT: Now Phoenyx, would that suffice in giving you enough materiel for half a dozen new forum threads? /s 

Hey Benny..... I didn't know Smith's moved on as well. He was always an excellent representative of the style of TKR's community, its sad to see him go. But I do hope he's getting RL things sorted out now. 

Since leaving this game I got all the remainder of my Thesis prep work finished, and a bunch of pressing RL problems sorted out more or less, so I hope he can tackle whatever's on his plate as well. 

Apologies for typos or other errors that might be present in this spiel.... its late when I wrote this. 

Jesus, Sphinx, paragraph spacing was invented for a reason, or has the technology not made it that far south yet?

[Sphinx]

10 minutes ago, Tarroc said:

Jesus, Sphinx, paragraph spacing was invented for a reason, or has the technology not made it that far south yet?

You must have a secret identity as a Professor of Ancient History in Sydney. Since they also feel I don't break my paragraphs up enough. ;,p 

Granted I do get carried away a bit. Believe it or not but it use to be much worse. Back when I was in High School I was known on the odd occasion for writing a paragraph per page.... ;v 
 

[The Titan]

Quote

Unlike Swamp, Quack's numbers were comprised of far more experienced rank and file and alliance leadership. Many of whom had been in over half a dozen global wars. Where as most of Swamp were barely even a year old.

 

3 hours ago, Sphinx said:

What I said to Boyce, might give you that impression but you need to read it with the necessary context. Boyce and I have a long history together, we've known each other in this game for several years (Which does only make him leaking stuff even more disgraceful IMO), he made it know to me that he also viewed Quack pretty poorly and blamed them for scapegoating TEst post NPOLT as a cause to drop their Protectorate. He often times spoke rather negatively of Quack and expressed to me on numerous occasions his hope in being able to take on Quack, or at least helping in getting them rolled, or his hope that t$/TKR would split. (I purged my chat history with him in late October, but I made copies of what was said for posterity.) Simply put, from my last few months of chat with Boyce (March, 2020 - October 2020. He always spoke of Quack in negative terms.) After global war 15, Boyce came to me and discussed his ideas for having TEst go paperless akin to what Wei had done. We discussed the topic a bit, and it genuinely seemed like something which TEst really wanted to do, however the one thing which was holding them back and which they had concerns over the was the idea of going paperless and thus not wanting to leave us as allies. TEst's incessant desire for raiding and wars eventually grew to weight heavily on us, and combined with the fact that TEst's government leaks were a major reason for Swamp being convinced to join Hedge in attacking us in global war 15. Meant that our relationship as allies was untenable. As TEst had already expressed its hope in wanting to become a paperless alliance, I felt that us joining Swamp and dropping TEst would be a mutual break up, and from Boyce's first reactions it seemed to be rather amicable. My mention of us joining TEst against Quack should a potential coalition materialise was a direct reference to the grievances Boyce held towards Quack, something which I mistakenly though rather little of at the time. Regardless of any coalition forming, it was something which I would envisaged us not being in any position to join until at least well into late 2021, if at all. Since at the time I had far more cause for war against various figures in the coalition against Quack, than I did with any alliance within Quack. Now if Quack maintained its massive size and other spheres continued to beat each other up, then that might be a cause for additional concern. But that's projecting things well into the distant future, the main thing you can take from this Phoenyx, is I had no interest or plans to attack Quack. 

Okay,

1st - Don't go around acting like you ever cared about TEst, in my dealings with him, they have referenced numerous times we have done stuff for them that you either blatantly ignored or never thought of in the first place, it's pretty pathetic considering that we're only a year old.
2nd - Returning to the idiotic reason that we're better because of experience and competency is also pathetic. You expect us to limit how good we are at the game? Swamp is (was?) larger than us, and had they taken the time to develop correctly, could have easily completely wiped our low tier singlehandedly, and even then we would have faced reasonable resistance in the mid tier. We aren't at fault, nor are we going to apologize for being competent, or taking the time to develop and build the proper structure to be competent.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Lord Vader
Irrelevant, not my place

[The Titan]

2 hours ago, Sphinx said:

(Which does only make him leaking stuff even more disgraceful IMO)

Then don't tell him stuff after you literally dropped them in favor of Swamp, smdh

[Keegoz]

14 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

3rd - Returning to the idiotic reason that we're better because of experience and competency is also pathetic. You expect us to limit how good we are at the game? Swamp is (was?) larger than us, and had they taken the time to develop correctly, could have easily completely wiped our low tier singlehandedly, and even then we would have faced reasonable resistance in the mid tier. We aren't at fault, nor are we going to apologize for being competent, or taking the time to develop and build the proper structure to be competent.

I don't think he said that, he just said it was a reason as to why he was fearful of Quack.

[Yzard]

Tldr anyone?

[Big Mac]

2 hours ago, Sphinx said:

What I said to Boyce, might give you that impression but you need to read it with the necessary context. Boyce and I have a long history together, we've known each other in this game for several years (Which does only make him leaking stuff even more disgraceful IMO), he made it know to me that he also viewed Quack pretty poorly and blamed them for scapegoating TEst post NPOLT as a cause to drop their Protectorate. He often times spoke rather negatively of Quack and expressed to me on numerous occasions his hope in being able to take on Quack, or at least helping in getting them rolled, or his hope that t$/TKR would split. (I purged my chat history with him in late October, but I made copies of what was said for posterity.) Simply put, from my last few months of chat with Boyce (March, 2020 - October 2020. He always spoke of Quack in negative terms.) After global war 15, Boyce came to me and discussed his ideas for having TEst go paperless akin to what Wei had done. We discussed the topic a bit, and it genuinely seemed like something which TEst really wanted to do, however the one thing which was holding them back and which they had concerns over the was the idea of going paperless and thus not wanting to leave us as allies. TEst's incessant desire for raiding and wars eventually grew to weight heavily on us, and combined with the fact that TEst's government leaks were a major reason for Swamp being convinced to join Hedge in attacking us in global war 15. Meant that our relationship as allies was untenable. As TEst had already expressed its hope in wanting to become a paperless alliance, I felt that us joining Swamp and dropping TEst would be a mutual break up, and from Boyce's first reactions it seemed to be rather amicable. My mention of us joining TEst against Quack should a potential coalition materialise was a direct reference to the grievances Boyce held towards Quack, something which I mistakenly though rather little of at the time.

 

Sphinx, we had been allied for quite a while. Paperless was always something we had in mind for the direction of the alliance, seeing as part of the high gov and the leader, are ex-pirates. It was an idea that we toyed with, coming to the conclusion that it would not materialise because we were allied to you and we greatly respected the relationship we had with tCW as a whole. And while we did like the idea of being paperless and going back to the old times we never had an 'incessant desire' for this at all (In fact we only had one offensive "war" in our 9 months as allies). We respected what we had with you, but it was clear this was not reciprocal after all we had been through, due to the fact you simply told us you were packing up and leaving to join your new friends in Swamp who were in turn making you drop us... exactly the situation we were in with you guys and CotL when we stuck with tCW fully well knowing we would be rolled and even though staying with CotL would have been tactically superior as we found their actions toward you guys dishonourable. Yes, you gave the proper 72 hours but beyond that the respect you gave to your second largest ally wasn't left to be desired after you ditched us with no prior warning. While we may not be as large as a factor within our new bloc, they have definitely done far more to help us in 2 months, than you ever did in 9.

[Bob Ross]

To much text

[Phoenyx]

7 hours ago, Sphinx said:

Hey Phoenyx, don't think we've ever spoken before (Assuming you aren't an Inst re-roll.).

 

No, we haven't. I'm also not a re-roll. I'm glad that you have finally joined us here. I have wanted to ask you things for a long time now. Thanks for your explanations. I had suspected that you would say some of the things you did say, but it's one thing to suspect, another thing to know, so thanks for that. Will get to the rest of your post in a bit...

7 hours ago, Sphinx said:

...I figured it might be worthwhile in providing you some context or information for you to sink your teeth into. However you decide to interpret this, is up to you. I've got no responsibilities since I've left the game so I can speak more frankly and openly (You're free to disregard what I say here. But as I've left the game there's no reason for me to lie about this. So this is entirely the truth from my perspective.). If you want to discuss things further with me, hit me up on Discord (Sphinx#0497) and I'd be happy to chat about whatever you wish. 

 

Ok, thanks.

[Phoenyx]

7 hours ago, Sphinx said:

Now if Quack maintained its massive size and other spheres continued to beat each other up, then that might be a cause for additional concern. But that's projecting things well into the distant future, the main thing you can take from this Phoenyx, is I had no interest or plans to attack Quack. 

 

Thanks for that. I had long suspected that you had been falsely portrayed as wanting to attack Quack, but since you were gone, there was no way for me to get your testimony on the matter.

 

Anyway, what do you make of these words from Boyce:

 

That screenshot was part of Partisan's CB for attacking TCW and HM.

 

It seems Boyce is saying that your TCW Alliance had been poised to attack Quack in December or January. Where do you suppose Boyce got this information? He has never defended his statement here in the forum, I do know that. So I'd definitely like your take on it, since the only person I've seen him talking to in the logs Partisan put up other than Vader, who is on Quack's side, was you. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Phoenyx

[Phoenyx]

8 hours ago, Sphinx said:

Now with that said its been made aware to me that SRD among others in the coalition made reference to previously unknown talks between Rose, Hedge and/or Swamp forming a coalition against Quack.

 

I don't know who told you what, but you may want to take a look at the following thread I made that gets into this:

 

8 hours ago, Sphinx said:

Putting aside the fact that several of them especially in Hedge would refuse to work with us under our previous leadership. I knew of no discussions about attacking Quack.

 

Thank you. Again, I strongly suspected that you had had no discussions to attack Quack, but it's definitely nice to have you confirm it. 

[Phoenyx]

9 hours ago, Sphinx said:

If Hedge was reaching out to Swamp and Rose, then it was something which we weren't apart of.

 

Actually, SRD wrote a now rather famous line wherein he stated that Swamp had reached out to HM with the notion of attacking Quack. Here is the quote that HerooftheTimes later turned into an ad for Quack:

  

On 11/2/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I can tell you straight up what has been going on from Grumpy's point of view.  Swamp came to HM about a month ago, asking about hitting you guys, and as the leader of Grumpy, I said i would only be on board if Rose was also on board, and Rose said no, so Grumpy was out.

 

Ofcourse, Quack being Quack, they neglected to mention what SRD said after that:

  

On 11/2/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

After about a week, I assumed the plan died since I didnt hear anything more about it.  

Last week Quack militarized out of the blue, so we militarized and started talking to the other blocs, because we didn't know what they were doing or who they were planning to hit. Swamp and HM basically agreed that if one of us gets hit, we will help the other one because we cant let the strongest bloc in the game start steamrolling the smaller blocs, and we were waiting to see if Rose would also agree.  From what I understand Rose didn't jump on the bandwagon till a few hours before you guys attacked on Friday.  If we were all on board from the get go, we wouldn't have spend the 2 hours before you attacked frantically trying to decide how we wanted to handle you guys.   If we had all actually been working together, we would have had target lists together, and hit you first.

 

Still, there was a hint of what Quack had alleged- Ronnie's allegation that Swamp had been planning to attack Quack. Tyrion reacted promptly to this post, stating:

On 11/2/2020 at 11:19 AM, Lord Tyrion said:

Swamp and Hedge never discussed any offensive actions against Quack.  If it was somebody like Sphinx doing it on his own, that we have no knowledge of.  But we literally never discussed offensive action against Quack with Hedge or Rose, nor would that have been approved by Swamp leadership.  Defensive arrangements, yes, those were obviously discussed.  Discussing going on the offensive literally only happened within the 24 hours before the war started.  My DM's are open if you'd like to discuss further.

 

Within minutes, Benfro was on him:

  

On 11/2/2020 at 11:35 AM, Benfro said:

May I direct you to this post which is only a few above yours in this very thread? Unless you are accusing Ronnie of not knowing basics as a leader of another primary sphere in your coalition?

 

And Tyrion responded:

  

On 11/2/2020 at 11:39 AM, Lord Tyrion said:

I don't know where Ronnie got his info.  Not accusing him of anything - if he heard or talked to somebody, it wasn't at the knowledge/direction of our leadership.  

 

To his credit, Ronnie did clarify that he hadn't actually spoken to anyone in Swamp directly:

  

On 11/2/2020 at 11:49 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

When I found out about potentially hitting Quack it was presented to me as Swamp came to us asking about it, I wasn't directly involved in the original discussion, I heard about it second hand.  Some gov of Swamp is saying it wasn't their idea, so I dont know whose idea it was besides Sphinx since he was pushing for it even back when we were at war with them.

 

Apparently, SRD believed Boyce's claim that you were pushing for this war, but now that you are here to defend yourself, perhaps that will change. Anyway, I decided to ask Ronnie where he'd heard that Swamp had been reaching out to other spheres to attack Quack. Since I hadn't initially seen this post from SRD, my first query to Ronnie had assumed that he himself had talked to some Alliance in Swamp:

 

Intrigued, I queried him further:

 

To which he responded:

 

 

He hadn't shared that with Tyrion. So I did later. Here is his reaction:

 

It was after this conversation with Tyrion (this was only the start of it) that I decided to create the "Sad truth" thread that I had referenced earlier.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Phoenyx

[Phoenyx]

9 hours ago, Sphinx said:

I haven't read far enough into the story you're trying to argue. But I can't really help you with uncovering this supposed "HM leaker" which I've noticed you mentioning a lot.

 

Understood. You have made it clear that your relationship with HM isn't exactly ideal, so stands to reason that you wouldn't be able to help in that regard.

[Phoenyx]

9 hours ago, Sphinx said:

What I can say is, If the Boyce leaks never happened and Hedge/Swamp/Rose were able to attack Quack en-mass.

 

It seems that at the time that you wrote this, you actually believe part of Quack's story. Apparently, you missed the part where they thought that TCW was going to be part of it, based on what Boyce said. You also missed the part that I don't believe anyone believes that Rose was part of a first strike initiative. According to SRD, Rose only entered into a defensive treaty with Swamp and HM hours before Quack attacked TCW and HM. From everything I have seen, there is no solid evidence that TCW, HM or Swamp had any plans to attack Quack. The only evidence I have seen that all 3 of these groups were going to attack is Boyce's statement that it was going to happen- he even predicted that it would happen in December or January. Which is why questioning Boyce as to what drew him to this conclusion is so important. However, it seems that Partisan and all have never considered that Boyce may have misunderstood what he had heard, or who he had heard things from. I'm not even getting into the possibility that Boyce may have known that his source(s) were ambiguous at best. 

9 hours ago, Sphinx said:

EDIT: Now Phoenyx, would that suffice in giving you enough materiel for half a dozen new forum threads? /s 

Not yet, but certainly was enough material for several posts 🙂

[Phoenyx]

9 hours ago, Sphinx said:

Oh and regarding the stuff you mentioned about gag orders. Its perfectly reasonable for any alliance to want to keep a united front. Having people speculating on various causes or arguing with allies never turns out well. Its nothing to do with trying to stifle free-speech or cover up things. Its just a normal function of government. If you had issues with CB's or why you're fighting for something you take it up with your alliance. What you were doing on the OWF, when you were in TFP would've caused red flags in all major alliances. The gag orders I imposed on my members when I ran TCW, were always related specifically to that, and it never stopped members from expressing in alliance chat freely their thoughts or views on our current engagements. If you don't believe me regarding my commitment to member free speech, consider that during NPOLT's last time, Curufinwe or Roquentin claimed I was "undermining the unity of the coalition" by refusing to censor Kalev and my other members who posted in the OWF. Granted they wanted Kalev and the others to not post on the OWF entirely. But Kalev despite being an self proclaimed troll knew well enough to never post stuff which might harm his alliance, and contradicting your alliance's messages can more harmful than you might think. To rehash an old WW2 Allied propaganda slogan, "Loose lips sink ships". 

 

I don't think I ever revealed anything here that put any of my Alliances in serious danger. That being said, I think I have a fairly good idea as to why they decided that I had to choose between posting my views on the global war here and staying in their Alliance. This was especially true at the start, when i was still learning some pretty important things.

 

So I made camp in an Alliance that, while still within the Swamp sphere of those times (an Immortals Protectorate), was small enough that it wouldn't be such an issue and that's where I have stayed to this day.