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Where to now, Immortals and TFP?


Phoenyx
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7 hours ago, WarriorSoul said:

My point was really to say that this is not remotely a place where alliances' "reputations are made". At best, people simply hope their reputation doesn't go to die here. Reputations are built and maintained elsewhere, and basically nothing productive comes out of the OWF besides a few chuckles here and there.

 

I don't see it that way.

7 hours ago, WarriorSoul said:

It was very easy to assume this was naivete early on, but given how fruitless *gestures broadly* has been, and how consistently you have been told that, in fact, the Open World Forum is not where people have these big, expository discussions where major agreements are brokered, I really can't see how you're being anything but intentionally obtuse so you can keep the bit going.

 

People can make decisions behind closed doors, I'm fine with that. But this place can be a good place for people who don't have a lot of over political power to steer conversations in certain directions, get people to think about things that they might otherwise ignore. There is certainly some power here to do that. If that wasn't the case, TFP and Rose wouldn't have felt the need to part ways with me. 

4 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

It's more about consistency in what you put out there.

 

You think I haven't been consistent?

4 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

I can't wait to see what the next 3 threads in this series have to offer

 

I think it's safe to say I've slowed down in posts. TI/TFP's removal from Swamp was big enough to get me to post a new thread, but I think it'd been a while since I last posted a thread. 

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9 minutes ago, Ketya said:

Activity is good Phoenyx, don’t let others discourage you! No harm in having more posts, if people don’t like they can choose not to read.

That's why your alliance gagged him.

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Look up to the sky above~

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On 12/7/2020 at 11:40 AM, BigMorf said:

This was a “you can’t quit because you’re fired kinda move.”

Perfect way to describe it ngl.

4 hours ago, Thalmor said:

Lord Tyrion personally mailed me a letter telling me that the two alliances will merge to form The Fighting Immortals. They will then become fully paperless and lock arms with Arrgh to bring in a new Golden Age of paperless politics.

It's over for pixelhuggers.

Yes, totally :D.

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TCM3_1_281x175.png.d5f909d45f36d3dcb3722580e7b7ecc2.png
Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines
Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order

 

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21 minutes ago, Ketya said:

Activity is good Phoenyx, don’t let others discourage you! No harm in having more posts, if people don’t like they can choose not to read.

Thanks Ketya :-). Ketya is in TFP, the Alliance I was in, so this means a lot to me. I will say that I think there are times that it's good to post less and I have been, but I also believe that people should definitely post things when they feel there's something important to say and I think this is such an occasion. It definitely feels good to get a little support for doing so as well, there's certainly been a lot of people criticizing me for just trying to make sense of this global war and the Alliances and Spheres within it. 

15 minutes ago, Hime-sama said:

That's why your alliance gagged him.

 

They didn't gag me. An Alliance can't gag you from posting here. They simply made it clear that if I continued posting as I do that I couldn't continue in their Alliance, so we parted ways. I'd also like to point out that not everyone in my Alliance felt that I should be removed for my posts here.

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16 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

...That's what a gag is, dude.

 

No, this is what a gag order is:

**A gag order (also known as a gagging order or suppression order) is an order, typically a legal order by a court or government, restricting information or comment from being made public or passed onto any unauthorized third party. The phrase may sometimes be used of a private order by an employer or other institution.**

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_order

No one ordered me to do anything. It was more like, "You want to post in the forums about the war,  you can't be in our Alliance". I had a choice to make and I made it. 

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27 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 

No, this is what a gag order is:

**A gag order (also known as a gagging order or suppression order) is an order, typically a legal order by a court or government, restricting information or comment from being made public or passed onto any unauthorized third party. The phrase may sometimes be used of a private order by an employer or other institution.**

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_order

No one ordered me to do anything. It was more like, "You want to post in the forums about the war,  you can't be in our Alliance". I had a choice to make and I made it. 

That is the PnW version of a gag order. 

FORMER LEADER OF COTL. PLEASE GROW INTERNALLY

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7 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

 

No, this is what a gag order is:

**A gag order (also known as a gagging order or suppression order) is an order, typically a legal order by a court or government, restricting information or comment from being made public or passed onto any unauthorized third party. The phrase may sometimes be used of a private order by an employer or other institution.**

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_order

No one ordered me to do anything. It was more like, "You want to post in the forums about the war,  you can't be in our Alliance". I had a choice to make and I made it. 

Okay bub, I'll bite that bait. Let's see if it fits your definition.

"A gag order is a legal order, by a government..." (Your alliance had a government, so that checks out.)

"...restricting information or comment from being made public or passed onto any unauthorized third party." (That government imposed a restriction on your commentary, so that checks out.)

"The phrase may sometimes be used as a private order by an employer or other institution." (While PnW governments have no legal authority on Earth, they are without doubt private institutions. They give orders, backed by their jurisdiction over warfare and alliance membership permissions. That therefore counts as a legal authority on Orbis*, so that checks out.)

The only disagreement that you seem to have with the definition is that you consider "stop posting or else you can't be in our alliance" to not be an "order". It very much IS an order, just one that explicitly clarifies the otherwise unspoken (but still very extant) penalty for not following orders: being kicked from/leaving the alliance**. It is functionally identical to a legal gag order IRL: The authority (government or company) tells you to not do something. You still have the choice: Not do it, or do it and face the penalties that the authority sees fit to levy against you for your transgression. This is the same: You were simply told up front what the penalty would be, which changes nothing except makes you that much more of a jackass.

*Orbis is the name of the planet on which our nations are canonically placed. The geography is identical to Earth, but there are of course massive differences such as the potential for overlapping territories, a physical inability to make war outside of certain boundaries, instant population growth, 2 hour days, et cetera.

**Being kicked or leaving under your own power are identical in the context of this situation, since if one hadn't happened the other would have.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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17 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

 

I don't see it that way.

 

People can make decisions behind closed doors, I'm fine with that. But this place can be a good place for people who don't have a lot of over political power to steer conversations in certain directions, get people to think about things that they might otherwise ignore. There is certainly some power here to do that. If that wasn't the case, TFP and Rose wouldn't have felt the need to part ways with me. 

 

You think I haven't been consistent?

 

I think it's safe to say I've slowed down in posts. TI/TFP's removal from Swamp was big enough to get me to post a new thread, but I think it'd been a while since I last posted a thread. 

No. I think the opposing coalition hasn't been Consistent, and that's why they ended up looking like well... Crap. 

 

My activity or forum presence, in terms of impact, is secondary to the impact all the contradictions we've seen have had. 

 

My response was not an assessment of you- it was one of politics. 😛

Edited by Prefonteen

 

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9 hours ago, Leftbehind said:

That is the PnW version of a gag order. 

I think the PnW version of a gag order would be Alex or one of his moderators forbidding something. -That- I have to follow if I want to keep on playing. 

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2 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Okay bub, I'll bite that bait. Let's see if it fits your definition.

"A gag order is a legal order, by a government..." (Your alliance had a government, so that checks out.)

"...restricting information or comment from being made public or passed onto any unauthorized third party." (That government imposed a restriction on your commentary, so that checks out.)

"The phrase may sometimes be used as a private order by an employer or other institution." (While PnW governments have no legal authority on Earth, they are without doubt private institutions. They give orders, backed by their jurisdiction over warfare and alliance membership permissions. That therefore counts as a legal authority on Orbis*, so that checks out.)

The only disagreement that you seem to have with the definition is that you consider "stop posting or else you can't be in our alliance" to not be an "order". It very much IS an order, just one that explicitly clarifies the otherwise unspoken (but still very extant) penalty for not following orders: being kicked from/leaving the alliance**. It is functionally identical to a legal gag order IRL: The authority (government or company) tells you to not do something. You still have the choice: Not do it, or do it and face the penalties that the authority sees fit to levy against you for your transgression. [insult removed]

 

I suppose you could see it that way. However, the penalty, mainly having to part ways with one's Alliance, isn't that severe. As mentioned previously, I personally would consider Alex/his mods forbidding some speech as what I'd call the PnW equivalent of a gag order.

1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

No. I think the opposing coalition hasn't been Consistent, and that's why they ended up looking like well... Crap. 

 

My activity or forum presence, in terms of impact, is secondary to the impact all the contradictions we've seen have had. 

 

My response was not an assessment of you- it was one of politics. 😛

 

I've made it clear that I think the greatest flaw in the anti quack forces is their failure to resolve whether or not Swamp was trying to get spheres to initiate a first strike or not. I even made a thread about it:

 

 

In terms of your Quack Sphere, I think your greatest flaw is your failure to thoroughly investigate Boyce's claims that HM/TCW/Swamp were planning to attack Quack in December/January. I also made a thread about that:

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

I suppose you could see it that way. However, the penalty, mainly having to part ways with one's Alliance, isn't that severe. As mentioned previously, I personally would consider Alex/his mods forbidding some speech as what I'd call the PnW equivalent of a gag order.

Alex and the moderators are not players (technically the moderators are players, but when they're moderating the idea is that they're impartial and a completely separate persona). "don't/do this or kick" is the 2nd most severe penalty that an alliance can levy against anyone. The most severe penalty is doing that plus also attacking the transgressor on the way out. Either way, a "stop posting or leave alliance" statement, obeyed or not, still constitutes an order with all that implies.

...

...Also I'm pretty ding dang sure you DID get the moderators to weigh in on your spam at least once, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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57 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

I think the PnW version of a gag order would be Alex or one of his moderators forbidding something. -That- I have to follow if I want to keep on playing. 

No, there is a difference between the rules of our creator and rules of us mere mortals. When an alliance asks you not to talk about something than its a gag order. Its really not a complex idea. 

FORMER LEADER OF COTL. PLEASE GROW INTERNALLY

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3 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

No. I think the opposing coalition hasn't been Consistent, and that's why they ended up looking like well... Crap.

😛

It's not like you haven't repeatedly lied and been disingenuous yourself :P

A multi sphere coalition unified against you, and you say they look like crap when they have different views on the war and lead up to it? LOL. I think if you want to see crap, there should be a mirror in the bathroom for you heh

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31 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

It's not like you haven't repeatedly lied and been disingenuous yourself :P

A multi sphere coalition unified against you, and you say they look like crap when they have different views on the war and lead up to it? LOL. I think if you want to see crap, there should be a mirror in the bathroom for you heh

Well yeah, but he's literally a snek. What's your excuse?

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5 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

 

I suppose you could see it that way. However, the penalty, mainly having to part ways with one's Alliance, isn't that severe. As mentioned previously, I personally would consider Alex/his mods forbidding some speech as what I'd call the PnW equivalent of a gag order.

 

I've made it clear that I think the greatest flaw in the anti quack forces is their failure to resolve whether or not Swamp was trying to get spheres to initiate a first strike or not. I even made a thread about it:

 

 

In terms of your Quack Sphere, I think your greatest flaw is your failure to thoroughly investigate Boyce's claims that HM/TCW/Swamp were planning to attack Quack in December/January. I also made a thread about that:

 

 

Yes, you posted threads. I disagreed with all of them ;).

Our investigation was enough, and was later proven correct. The faillure on part of the opposition to be in any way consistent with regards to *events that occurred* ((facts, not reasons/opinions) is a direct validation of our assessment and the decision on which we based it.

 

3 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

It's not like you haven't repeatedly lied and been disingenuous yourself :P

A multi sphere coalition unified against you, and you say they look like crap when they have different views on the war and lead up to it? LOL. I think if you want to see crap, there should be a mirror in the bathroom for you heh

Sigh... are you going to spam offbase references to events 5 years ago again if I dignify you with a remotely serious response?

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