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Changing Spy Op vs Infra


Prefontaine
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Better than infra spying, I still would never use it but I mean some might do it on me so I'm all for it (I say as my manu improvs get yeeted next war)

Cry harder

Wanted dead or alive for the following crimes:

Thoughts of attempting rebellion, leaking, being a femboy, being a weeb

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17 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Basically we would remove the spy op that destroys infra and replace it with a spy op that destroys an improvement. The success rate would vary between the number of spies that were defending (obviously) and the number of improvements a nation has. If a nation is a whale with lots of improvements the difficulty decreases as it's harder to defend lots of different improvements. If a nation has a low number of improvements success is harder as its easier to defend fewer targets.

Power plants would be unable to be spied. Military facilities would have a low rate of being hit. The most frequently targeted improvements would be Raw resources, Refined resources, and commerce. 

 

Feedback pls

If Power Plants and Military improvements can't be targeted, this spy op would be just as valuable as the current spy infra op (low value).

If Power plants and military improvements can be targeted, this spy op would be incredibly annoying and OP compared to other spy ops.

 

Having a low chance of hitting a military improvement seems just as valuable as not having the ability to target them at all in this context.

 

This is one of those "knife's edge" ideas that has to be perfectly balanced for me to want to see it implemented - given how hard that is to do or agree on, I think I agree with Potpie here. Buffing the amount of infra you can destroy with spy ops OR accept that spies aren't meant to be a tool of dealing direct damage and remove the infra spy op would both be better choices imo.

Edited by Roberts
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I suggested this to Pre, and I think it's a good idea even if it's underpowered for the following reason:

I really need to refactor the improvement destruction script used in the game. This is the perfect opportunity to write a new function to handle that and test it without risking breaking improvement destruction everywhere else.

Also: I'm of the opinion that more options is always better. Even if it doesn't get used often, that doesn't mean that there is never a use-case.

I disagree with removing or changing the target infrastructure spy op.

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Underpowered? This is ridiculously overpowered, i could wipe 6 improvements during day change during a blitz without it costing me a single MAP.

This makes missiles and iron dome almost worthless and makes wars even more in favor of the aggressors, which will lead to shorter wars and stagnation.

 

The only way i could get behind this is if it only could hit manufacturing & resources. Commerce is already weakened by low infra. If it can destroy 6 Military and civil buildings during a blitz, and 3 everyday after for as long as the war goes on, it makes it just that much more easier to pin the defender.

 

Maybe make the spy op reduce the production of or disable the building temporarily instead.

 

If you guys are seriously so hell bent on making a way to easily destroy improvements, here are my alternative suggestions

•increase the effectiveness of tactician policy,

•reduce the MAPs (and resistance damage) of missiles,

•give missiles a 10% chance to break a 2nd improvement, randomly selceted from any category (besides power),

•make attrition & ordinary wars have higher % chance of improvement damage,

•make naval units have a higher chance of improvement damage than ground, 

•make the rate slightly higher for defenders to break their attackers improvements.

There are already methods to get rid of enemies with overslotted improvements, Missiles and tactician policy, just because some players dont use them it doesnt mean you should devalue them in favor of a game breaking change.

Edited by Deborah Kobayashi
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On 12/4/2020 at 12:55 PM, Deborah Kobayashi said:

Underpowered? This is ridiculously overpowered, i could wipe 6 improvements during day change during a blitz without it costing me a single MAP.

This makes missiles and iron dome almost worthless and makes wars even more in favor of the aggressors, which will lead to shorter wars and stagnation.

 

The only way i could get behind this is if it only could hit manufacturing & resources. Commerce is already weakened by low infra. If it can destroy 6 Military and civil buildings during a blitz, and 3 everyday after for as long as the war goes on, it makes it just that much more easier to pin the defender.

I actually originally thought the same way you did, until I looked and realized it would take over 650 days to destroy all my improvements. that is if you were successful 3 times every single day, and if you don't kill the infra behind it, you can just rebuild them anyways.  This is a great complimentary attack to go along with Nukes/Missiles, it doesn't replace them by any stretch.

note it would take about 4 months to wipe out all of your improvements assuming everything was successful every single day, and you are practically a brand new nation.

Side note, shorter more frequent wars are a positive not a negative.

Edited by Sweeeeet Ronny D
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On 12/2/2020 at 2:12 PM, Prefontaine said:

Basically we would remove the spy op that destroys infra and replace it with a spy op that destroys an improvement. The success rate would vary between the number of spies that were defending (obviously) and the number of improvements a nation has. If a nation is a whale with lots of improvements the difficulty decreases as it's harder to defend lots of different improvements. If a nation has a low number of improvements success is harder as its easier to defend fewer targets.

Power plants would be unable to be spied. Military facilities would have a low rate of being hit. The most frequently targeted improvements would be Raw resources, Refined resources, and commerce.

on a scale of raws/manu/com being 1 to mil being 10

where is civil's chance of being spied

plz ballpark the scaling per 5 improvements

 

On 12/4/2020 at 7:44 AM, Alex said:

I really need to refactor the improvement destruction script used in the game. This is the perfect opportunity to write a new function to handle that and test it without risking breaking improvement destruction everywhere else.

Also: I'm of the opinion that more options is always better. Even if it doesn't get used often, that doesn't mean that there is never a use-case.

I disagree with removing or changing the target infrastructure spy op.

yes yes* and most of a yes

*more guerilla tictacs plz

rawr

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On 12/4/2020 at 4:44 PM, Alex said:

Also: I'm of the opinion that more options is always better. Even if it doesn't get used often, that doesn't mean that there is never a use-case.

I disagree with removing or changing the target infrastructure spy op.

I agree,.
I know people who spy infra on eachother for the meme 😛
So it does indeed have a use.

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On 12/4/2020 at 7:44 AM, Alex said:

I suggested this to Pre, and I think it's a good idea even if it's underpowered for the following reason:

I really need to refactor the improvement destruction script used in the game. This is the perfect opportunity to write a new function to handle that and test it without risking breaking improvement destruction everywhere else.

Also: I'm of the opinion that more options is always better. Even if it doesn't get used often, that doesn't mean that there is never a use-case.

I disagree with removing or changing the target infrastructure spy op.

I think the big issue with improvement destruction is that it's not on par with infra destruction. That's why I've heard of improvement degradation going into effect as an update. I think the bigger thing is to just increase the likelihood that any attack will destroy improvements in tandem with the amount of infrastructure they destroy - so a naval attack on an attrition war should have a near certain likelihood of destroying an improvement. 

 

Tying improvement destruction to infra damage would also remove the hack that with one ship attack on tactician you have one of the best likelihoods in the game of destroying an improvement for the cost of about $30k. 

 

I don't like the idea of spies killing improvements because in large scale wars like the current one - once one side gets the advantage by killing spies in the first 3-5 days - improvements are going to be destroyed in large numbers very quickly - making spies OP. You need spies to kill spies and the spy war will be too decisive. 

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