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A sad truth about the Swampy Rose Hedge...


Phoenyx
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I have switched Alliances a few times, but I have always been in the Swampy Rose Hedge. I believed and continue to believe that you guys are in the right in this war. However, it saddens me that our side doesn't seem that interested in clearing things up. Today, I spoke to a HM Leader. Not #1, second in command. Anyway, they seemed skeptical that Tyrion and Kaz were being honest when they said that they had no knowledge of any plan to attack Quack first. What is particularly irritating about this is that it was a Hedge Leader who made the statement that Ronny took to mean that yes, Swamp did want to attack first, although apparently even he believes that the plan probably fizzled out quickly.

 

Now some know that I spoke briefly to Tyrion before he posted here and said that we hadn't said much and that was completely true. Since then, we have talked a bit more. I won't go into most of this, but one thing I felt I have to say at this point is that I brought up Ronny's HM leader source and Tyrion believes that this source may in fact have just been talking about the Swampy Rose Hedge defensive Coalition that actually happened. HM should really get on this, find out and at least talk to Tyrion about this. Because the way I see this, Tyrion and Kaz (TFP) have really not been given a fair shake here. 

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25 minutes ago, Potpie99 said:

"Man who leaks everything he can get his hands on in an attempt to gain popularity isn't told stuff by influential officials, utterly confused why"

God! Thank so so much for the TL;DR.

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A game dies without a community.

Don't hate on the communities trying to grow.

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33 minutes ago, Daveth said:

 

 

This really made me laugh :-p. You did make me think though. What if the reason that Hedge doesn't want to clarify things is that the truth is, Hedge was actually the group that wanted to go to war with Quack whereas Swamp really only wanted a defensive Coalition? I don't know, but I just find it immensely frustrating that we can't get some clarification from this HM leader as to what he meant. 

34 minutes ago, Potpie99 said:

"Man who leaks everything he can get his hands on in an attempt to gain popularity isn't told stuff by influential officials, utterly confused why"

There is truth to that, but I had no need for leaks here. Tyrion has been very public about stating that he had no knowledge of any plan to attack Quack first. 

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Well I have been trying to avoid the forums lately but it looks like Phoenix has forced me out of retirement to say this. Putting aside your position on the narrative (which I don't agree with btw), I applaud you for having the courage to come out and engage/express your views here. As you've probably seen by now, the elites that control things around here aren't very pleased that you're saying something outside the official narratives, or in the case of your sphere a lack of one. I also firmly recall a time where I was in a similar spot as you and although I've had to bite my tongue for reasons I'm not getting into right now, just know that I stand by and support your right to do what you're doing and don't let anyone tell you that you can't. Perhaps one day when circumstances are a bit different, I'll be able to join you in your crusade on the forums. Sometimes we'll agree and sometimes we won't but the one thing we both can realize is that the REAL hegemony are the elites on both sides that attempt to silence new voices.

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It's not very hard to "control the narrative" when one's "narrative" is based on facts.  The general silence from the folks on the other side, Phoenyx hilariously excepted, is deafening.  It is ever amusing that they have dressed up their inability to respond as the BiG bAd hEgEmOnY somehow "controlling the narrative," and this being implied as further evidence that we are a "threat" that needs to be "dealt with."

Edited by HeroofTime55

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zapdos.jpg.28ab9e9c974c8dc4fc52998d0e3adf14.jpg

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1 hour ago, Avatar Patrick said:

Well I have been trying to avoid the forums lately but it looks like Phoenix has forced me out of retirement to say this. Putting aside your position on the narrative (which I don't agree with btw), I applaud you for having the courage to come out and engage/express your views here. As you've probably seen by now, the elites that control things around here aren't very pleased that you're saying something outside the official narratives, or in the case of your sphere a lack of one. I also firmly recall a time where I was in a similar spot as you and although I've had to bite my tongue for reasons I'm not getting into right now, just know that I stand by and support your right to do what you're doing and don't let anyone tell you that you can't. Perhaps one day when circumstances are a bit different, I'll be able to join you in your crusade on the forums. Sometimes we'll agree and sometimes we won't but the one thing we both can realize is that the REAL hegemony are the elites on both sides that attempt to silence new voices.

Y'know, one thing I've found is that when you're expected to bite your tongue... something is very wrong. Possibly with your understanding of the situation, but more than likely there's something wrong with the reasoning of the ones telling you to stay silent.

Either way, further silence wins nothing.

If you have a problem with your leaders... then at least, at least talk it out with them in private. If at the end of that you still don't like it, consider letting them know that you're planning on quitting at some point in the future, after your debts and obligations are settled.

If they threaten you at that point... then frick right off, because NOBODY, in ANY sphere, including if not especially my own, should have the right to threaten their members into submission. That right there is the reddest of flags in my experience, and there's nothing at all that can justify that sort of behavior imo.

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8 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Y'know, one thing I've found is that when you're expected to bite your tongue... something is very wrong. Possibly with your understanding of the situation, but more than likely there's something wrong with the reasoning of the ones telling you to stay silent.

Either way, further silence wins nothing.

If you have a problem with your leaders... then at least, at least talk it out with them in private. If at the end of that you still don't like it, consider letting them know that you're planning on quitting at some point in the future, after your debts and obligations are settled.

If they threaten you at that point... then frick right off, because NOBODY, in ANY sphere, including if not especially my own, should have the right to threaten their members into submission. That right there is the reddest of flags in my experience, and there's nothing at all that can justify that sort of behavior imo.

Oh no I didn't mean it like that. I haven't explicitly been told to shut up. It's more of a self censorship kind of thing because I realize a lot of my opinions aren't very popular with certain people and that could hurt my alliance which isn't what i want. So I decided to cut back on the posting and the "one day circumstances may be different" part could happen in a variety of different ways like sphere change or change in sphere narrative.

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2 hours ago, Avatar Patrick said:

Well I have been trying to avoid the forums lately but it looks like Phoenix has forced me out of retirement to say this. Putting aside your position on the narrative (which I don't agree with btw), I applaud you for having the courage to come out and engage/express your views here. As you've probably seen by now, the elites that control things around here aren't very pleased that you're saying something outside the official narratives, or in the case of your sphere a lack of one. I also firmly recall a time where I was in a similar spot as you and although I've had to bite my tongue for reasons I'm not getting into right now, just know that I stand by and support your right to do what you're doing and don't let anyone tell you that you can't. Perhaps one day when circumstances are a bit different, I'll be able to join you in your crusade on the forums. Sometimes we'll agree and sometimes we won't but the one thing we both can realize is that the REAL hegemony are the elites on both sides that attempt to silence new voices.

This is precisely the problem.

The fire rises comrade 👍

Edited by Charles Bolivar
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1 hour ago, Avatar Patrick said:

Oh no I didn't mean it like that. I haven't explicitly been told to shut up. It's more of a self censorship kind of thing because I realize a lot of my opinions aren't very popular with certain people and that could hurt my alliance which isn't what i want. So I decided to cut back on the posting and the "one day circumstances may be different" part could happen in a variety of different ways like sphere change or change in sphere narrative.

That's significantly different than what you said before, which was that elites try and silence new voices.

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3 hours ago, Avatar Patrick said:

Well I have been trying to avoid the forums lately but it looks like Phoenix has forced me out of retirement to say this. Putting aside your position on the narrative (which I don't agree with btw), I applaud you for having the courage to come out and engage/express your views here. As you've probably seen by now, the elites that control things around here aren't very pleased that you're saying something outside the official narratives, or in the case of your sphere a lack of one. I also firmly recall a time where I was in a similar spot as you and although I've had to bite my tongue for reasons I'm not getting into right now, just know that I stand by and support your right to do what you're doing and don't let anyone tell you that you can't. Perhaps one day when circumstances are a bit different, I'll be able to join you in your crusade on the forums. Sometimes we'll agree and sometimes we won't but the one thing we both can realize is that the REAL hegemony are the elites on both sides that attempt to silence new voices.

I think that my sphere does have a narrative but when it comes to whether or not Swamp was going to attack Quack first, it seems that they are divided. Tyrion and Kaz have clearly said they had no knowledge of such a plan and seeing that they are the 2 biggest Alliances in Swamp, that clearly suggests that if anyone in Swamp was involved, it was at the whisper stage of things, not something that was actively being built up for. As far as I can see, this could all easily be cleared up by Ronnie talking to his HM leader source and saying something like "dude, what exactly did you mean by Swamp wanting to "counter Quack's growth"?  We talking counter attack or first strike?" But all we've seen so far from Ronny and HM on this is deafening silence and it has slowly gone from being a minor irritant to the deafening silence that someone has mentioned here. 

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1 hour ago, Adrienne said:

That's significantly different than what you said before, which was that elites try and silence new voices.

Not usually in a literal sense (although some alliances have done that too like npo) but more like actively discourage participation by saying something like "forums are too toxic so it's better to avoid them" which is true regarding the toxicity part but the solution to that isn't giving in to taunts like "delete your forum account" but sticking to your guns and pushing on.

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3 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

If division on that exists, then the intent by some if not all was verifiably there. The degree to which is harder to assess due to the existing incentive to lie (self interest). 

 

I don't think you know Kaz and Tyrion nearly as well as I do. They would never lie about something like this. Also, from everything I have seen about Kaz, he doesn't like taking risks when it's not necessary and this qualifies. The below screenshot speaks for itself:

 

Screen Shot 2020-11-23 at 3.28.26 AM.png

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5 hours ago, Adrienne said:

That's significantly different than what you said before, which was that elites try and silence new voices.

STOP SILENCING HIM WITH VALID COUNTERPOINTS!

8 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

It's not very hard to "control the narrative" when one's "narrative" is based on facts.  The general silence from the folks on the other side, Phoenyx hilariously excepted, is deafening.  It is ever amusing that they have dressed up their inability to respond as the BiG bAd hEgEmOnY somehow "controlling the narrative," and this being implied as further evidence that we are a "threat" that needs to be "dealt with."

"general silence", indeed 28 pages of nothing but SILENCE

28-pages.png
 

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7 hours ago, Avatar Patrick said:

Oh no I didn't mean it like that. I haven't explicitly been told to shut up. It's more of a self censorship kind of thing because I realize a lot of my opinions aren't very popular with certain people and that could hurt my alliance which isn't what i want. So I decided to cut back on the posting and the "one day circumstances may be different" part could happen in a variety of different ways like sphere change or change in sphere narrative.

Well, I understand that much. Sometimes you really do need to avoid damaging your peeps, but even then no alliance should feel like they're in a position where they need to be so restrained. Still, what should be and what is are two very different things, alas. That's why I encourage talking with leaders in private; if you really are in that position and can't afford to threaten it, then at least you can agree on that point. If you find that you can't, that's where there's an issue imo.

Edited by Sir Scarfalot
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2 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

You've been around for 2 months and spoke with them all but a handful of times. Lmao. 

It's not just about my conversations with them. It's about what they've said to others as well. As one of the leaders in TFP, I saw quite a few messages from Kaz. The theme was always the same- about being prepared to fight, but never looking to start them. The same goes for Tyrion. Tyrion being in the forums more, I could even cite examples- he assesses situations, says what needs to be said and if he sees he's getting nowhere fast, withdraws. He is loathe to assume anything and made it clear that he's not one to believe in rumours at the drop of a hat. On that particular point, I think you should take note.

 

This thread was dedicated to my irritation with Hedge Money in not questioning the HM Leader source as to what he meant. Because while Boyce and Sphinx may have played a large part in starting this war, Ronnie's comment, later turned into an ad, may well have prolonged it. So I asked Ronnie what his source was and he told me, this HM leader, even quoted what said HM leader told him. Next logical step, try to find out what this HM leader really meant since his words can be interpreted in more than one way. But at that point, Ronny dropped the ball.

 

Speaking of dropped balls, I've asked repeatedly for your side to try to get Boyce to explain how he came to this conclusion the Swampy Hedge was going to attack you guys in early December. On that count, however, all I've heard from you and your side are crickets.

Edited by Phoenyx
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