A sad truth about the Swampy Rose Hedge...

[Phoenyx]

2 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

Yes, and one of those interpretations necessitates ignoring like a decade and a half of nation sim history about what terms like "countering X's growth" means.

 

 

Sorry, but I'm not going to just take your word on that.

[SleepingNinja]

5 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

My point is, he's not saying that TFP and Immortals are trying to hide something compromising and that's why they don't want me posting. I think it's more that they think that my posting weakens them politically. They seem to be alright that I'm in Swamp so long as it's in a smaller Alliance whose political moves aren't so closely scrutinized. 

 

Anyway, there the Quack side goes again, assuming that the other side is lying when it doesn't fit into their narrative.

For .. y'know what I'll just leave it at this. Cry more if you want but I'm not going to continue wasting time with these mental gymnastics your having with yourself. I never specified who had something to hide, just that there was something to hide, you've clearly not been here long enough to see peoples dirty laundry get aired out sooo ignorance is bliss, friend.

 

As for your assuming the other side is lying. Well I have no reason to believe words at face value and right now the facts are on our side, regardless of how much you wish to dismiss them as nonexistent or "NoT gOoD eNoUgH." In other words, you have presented 0 evidence across your 250+ posts.

[donsberger]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

 

Sorry, but I'm not going to just take your word on that.

Yes because you only take Tyrion's word for it

[Phoenyx]

7 hours ago, WarriorSoul said:

And once again, are you going to take whatever that person would say at face value? If so, your analysis again boils down to "Swamp and Hedge said they had no interest in an aggressive war!" and your job is done.

 

 

The whole reason I -made- this thread is because Hedge has actually done a rather poor job of backing Swamp up on the narrative. Now, if HM has good evidence that Swamp was, in fact, intent on attacking Quack first, I'm fine with them presenting it. From what I've seen, though, they don't. However, the lack of clarification is not helping anyone on our side. Thus the reason for this thread. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Phoenyx

[WarriorSoul]

2 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 

Sorry, but I'm not going to just take your word on that.

I figured as much. That's a privilege reserved for people on your side

1 hour ago, WarriorSoul said:

you'll need to drop this pretense of being in some pursuit of truth and peace, and just admit to being a shill for your side like 99% of the other inhabitants of this wasteland

 

[Thalmor]

1 hour ago, HeroofTime55 said:

(cope and seeth)

Whoa there, buddy. Just thought I'd offer some clarification. Would like to chat but I can tell by the tone of your posts that you're really strung up tight about all this so I'll just drop it.

Remember though that this is just a game. No need to get so worked up over it. It's bad for your health both emotionally and mentally to get so invested and let it stress you out so much. Take a break for a month or something if you have to. We'll all be here when you get back. 

[Phoenyx]

1 minute ago, PhantomThiefB said:

For .. y'know what I'll just leave it at this. Cry more if you want but I'm not going to continue wasting time with these mental gymnastics your having with yourself. I never specified who had something to hide, just that there was something to hide, you've clearly not been here long enough to see peoples dirty laundry get aired out sooo ignorance is bliss, friend.

 

As for your assuming the other side is lying. Well I have no reason to believe words at face value and right now the facts are on our side, regardless of how much you wish to dismiss them as nonexistent or "NoT gOoD eNoUgH." In other words, you have presented 0 evidence across your 250+ posts.

 

Actually, I agree with you that things are being hidden. I just happen to believe that what's being hidden wouldn't look good for your side. There's a way to find out though- if you guys could persuade Boyce to come forward with his evidence that HM/TCW/Swamp were going to attack in early December, that should do it from that angle.

 

From our side, if Ronny could persuade his fellow HM leader to elaborate on what he meant, that'd do it from our side. 

2 minutes ago, donsberger said:

Yes because you only take Tyrion's word for it

 

I'm certainly open to hearing other people's interpretations, but I think we can all agree that it would be much better if Ronnie's HM leader were to speak for himself.

3 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

5 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 

Sorry, but I'm not going to just take your word on that.

 

I figured as much. That's a privilege reserved for people on your side

 

 

Actually, it's not. Which is why I definitely want to hear from the HM leader himself instead of just relying on people's interpretations. However, until that happens, I will rely on the word of people I trust the most in this game. I imagine you'd do the same in my situation.

[WarriorSoul]

2 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

From our side, if Ronny could persuade his fellow HM leader to elaborate on what he meant, that'd do it from our side.

Yes, your expectation here is that, even if it's true, someone in Hedge is going to come to this merciless hellhole and openly admit they were planning an aggressive war? Is that what you think is going to happen?

[SleepingNinja]

2 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 

Actually, I agree with you that things are being hidden. I just happen to believe that what's being hidden wouldn't look good for your side. There's a way to find out though- if you guys could persuade Boyce to come forward with his evidence that HM/TCW/Swamp were going to attack in early December, that should do it from that angle

This is where the ignorance comes in. From historical experience the ones enacting radio silence are usually the ones hiding something. 

Okay, I'm done for real. Don't care. Night forums.

[Phoenyx]

Just now, WarriorSoul said:

Yes, your expectation here is that, even if it's true, someone in Hedge is going to come to this merciless hellhole and openly admit they were planning an aggressive war? Is that what you think is going to happen?

 

No. I think what would happen is that this Hedge Leader would admit that, in fact, he was talking about the defensive Coalition that everyone agrees happened. Ofcourse, that carries problems too. In other words, from this HM's perspective, they may believe that their best option is to remain silent. 

[Thrawn]

4 hours ago, WarriorSoul said:

Dude i've spent the vast majority of the last 8 months at home. this is the most entertainment I get.

Same man, glad I could make things more interesting I guess.

[Phoenyx]

6 minutes ago, PhantomThiefB said:

This is where the ignorance comes in. From historical experience the ones enacting radio silence are usually the ones hiding something. 

Okay, I'm done for real. Don't care. Night forums.

 

Well, I'm certainly not being silent about it all. And some of the leaders arrayed against Quack have privately admitted to me that they also see our narrative problem regarding the lack of cohesion on our side as to whether or not Swamp had wanted a first strike. They may well not want to dwell on it for the same reason that Tyrion didn't want to dwell on it- they want HM to continue fighting with them. However, and this is important- Quack didn't initially attack Swamp. In fact, my understanding is that Quack actually asked Swamp to not defend its allies.

 

Why did Quack not attack Swamp as well if it truly believed that Swamp was part of the first strike initiative? It seems to me that they were more concerned that HM/TCW would be attacking them first. 

 

Anyway, good night.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Phoenyx

[Charles Bolivar]

2 hours ago, Eumirbago said:

Here we are trying another narrative.

Look bro, I can come to these forums at ANY time and embarrass any character to rile up my people.

Ex. @Akuryo @Epi @King Arthur @Azazel @Grave

You can try and embarrass me, but how the frick do you embarrass someone who has contributed nothing?

I've done it every fricking war and this war is not different.

Try again.

I seem to remember you contributing more than most actually 👍 alot of the wars in the early days were won off your back in addition to the backs of others including critters, Wana, Katie and so on.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Charles Bolivar

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

@Eumirbagomate you've only embarrassed yourself by waiting until your only available material would be the dried regurgitated crap already spun around for two weeks. 

You missed your chance, better luck next time tho!

[Sisyphus]

39 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

@Eumirbagomate you've only embarrassed yourself by waiting until your only available material would be the dried regurgitated crap already spun around for two weeks. 

You missed your chance, better luck next time tho!

>He straight up says he didn’t contribute

>You accuse him of not contributing.

What a zinger, so cutting that I’m feeling second-hand embarrassment.

Maybe you think you understand how Eumir works, but I’m just going to level with you man: nobody truly understands how he works.

[zigbigadorlou]

8 hours ago, Hodor said:

I truly haven't been paying as close attention, so I'll give you that, but what is left to discuss?

I'm pretty sure there's a lot to discuss. None of it is in this thread though

7 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

More justified than the lies you initially tried to pass.  Your quiet acceptance that our cause is just is duly noted.

Please, try to be specific with who you mean by "you". Hodor is not lying. Grumpy hasn't been lying. I think we've been the most open alliance in this whole thing.

Is your cause just? Hardly. Justified? Maybe, sure. 

7 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

You keep mentioning this post, and saying things like getting SRD to ask the hedge leader to clarify...as if that very same hedge leader isn't an active member and probably has seen most of this discussion. SRD doesn't owe you anything lol. 

There's also not much to clarify. "Counter Quack's Growth" sounds about as much like "Manufacture a CB and hit" as anything I can think of. In b4 partisan screenshots this with an incoherent post like he seems to like to do with my succinct rants

2 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

The whole reason I -made- this thread is because Hedge has actually done a rather poor job of backing hedge up on the narrative. Now, if HM has good evidence that Swamp was, in fact, intent on attacking Quack first, I'm fine with them presenting it. From what I've seen, though, they don't. However, the lack of clarification is not helping anyone on our side. Thus the reason for this thread. 

Like I said before and during Thalmor Radio, the narrative doesn't really matter much at this point. There isn't really much to say unless Rose sphere or *unnamed swamp-hedge leaders* come forward and spill what most of the game already assumes. It all boils down to: Quack seemed to be getting too big. Rumblings of an aggressive action were starting, intending as a check/balance. Quack caught wind, tried to isolate hedge/tcw, but got caught with their pants down by a planned Rose counter they weren't expecting. And in the end, Quack will hopefully accept peace after an adequate peace, and we can move forward in to a tense 3-v-1 situation until Quack can figure out how to regain hedge or swamp on their side. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by zigbigadorlou
Is there really a difference between swamp and quack?

[Shiho Nishizumi]

32 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said:

And in the end, Quack will hopefully accept peace after an adequate peace, and we can move forward in to a tense 3-v-1 situation until Quack can figure out how to regain hedge or quack on their side. 

More like 3.5 v 0.5 then.

[Eumirbago]

4 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

I seem to remember you contributing more than most actually 👍 alot of the wars in the early days were won off your back in addition to the backs of others including critters, Wana, Katie and so on.

Hahahaha they were fun times man, but that ship has sailed lmfao

A number of us only come on when we get pinged

I'm still amazed with this narrative that $yndicate muzzles its members when we literally had people like you and me allowed to put their 2 cents on ANYTHING

Most of these frickers' alliances would not last having personalities like we have had on it

3 hours ago, Akuryo said:

@Eumirbagomate you've only embarrassed yourself by waiting until your only available material would be the dried regurgitated crap already spun around for two weeks. 

You missed your chance, better luck next time tho!

Bro you're easy pickings. Low hanging fruit. Easy target.

I'm a fricking angel compared to who the frick you, @Epi, @Azazel, and all you motherfrickers are. s/o to @Kastor

I don't have to spin shit, the proof is in the pudding. I just have to come on here once in a blue moon as an ether to weak ass players like you guys.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Eumirbago

[Charles Bolivar]

33 minutes ago, Eumirbago said:

Hahahaha they were fun times man, but that ship has sailed lmfao

A number of us only come on when we get pinged

I'm still amazed with this narrative that $yndicate muzzles its members when we literally had people like you and me allowed to put their 2 cents on ANYTHING

Most of these frickers' alliances would not last having personalities like we have had on it

Bro you're easy pickings. Low hanging fruit. Easy target.

I'm a fricking angel compared to who the frick you, @Epi, @Azazel, and all you motherfrickers are. s/o to @Kastor

I don't have to spin shit, the proof is in the pudding. I just have to come on here once in a blue moon as an ether to weak ass players like you guys.

Now now eumir, you know too well us old farts are prohibited from even hinting the tS of old was a far better and far different beast entirely. Even though we all admit it to one another in our infrequent private chats, we can't let everyone else know how we really feel 🤣

But in regards to our 2 cents being on everything, it's likely more so due to us having a voice because we were actively consulted on everything. Treaties, wars, tax changes, department changes along with leadership changes. The notion of censorship was anathema to us because we actively made an effort to be collaborative in our decision making process. Opsec was something which belonged to other alliances and had no place in the tS I remember for the first year and half roughly. These young uns these days have no how clue how consultative the old guard actually were with one another and tbh, I think it's not a trend exclusively limited to tS but applicable to this game as a general whole. I noticed it when I got back, namely the concentration of power and influence within a few select individuals in each alliance till the point where this game's meta is basically decided by a handful of people with thousands of players just enacting and implementing the whims of a few.

As to the causes, who knows? The abandonment of forums and wholesale adoption of discord, the growth of whale tier economics or just a lack of new talent coming up in the ranks 🤷‍♂️

But alas yes, us old relic warhorses have had our time it would appear. Or so I am told anyway, we still get trotted out every so often to fight and win their wars for them 🤣

[Phoenyx]

5 hours ago, zigbigadorlou said:

You keep mentioning this post, and saying things like getting SRD to ask the hedge leader to clarify...as if that very same hedge leader isn't an active member and probably has seen most of this discussion. SRD doesn't owe you anything lol. 

 

Not me, no. I'm just a junior member of a protectorate in Swamp. Tyrion and Kaz is another matter. Not that they'd ask for it themselves, but I definitely think they deserve an investigation on this.

5 hours ago, zigbigadorlou said:

There's also not much to clarify. "Counter Quack's Growth" sounds about as much like "Manufacture a CB and hit" as anything I can think of. 

 

Tyrion doesn't think that and neither do I. Counter is the first part of counter attack after all.

[Phoenyx]

5 hours ago, zigbigadorlou said:

Like I said before and during Thalmor Radio, the narrative doesn't really matter much at this point. There isn't really much to say unless Rose sphere or *unnamed swamp-hedge leaders* come forward and spill what most of the game already assumes. It all boils down to: Quack seemed to be getting too big. Rumblings of an aggressive action were starting, intending as a check/balance. Quack caught wind, tried to isolate hedge/tcw, but got caught with their pants down by a planned Rose counter they weren't expecting. And in the end, Quack will hopefully accept peace after an adequate peace, and we can move forward in to a tense 3-v-1 situation until Quack can figure out how to regain hedge or swamp on their side. 

 

Even Ronny said that this supposed talk of an aggressive action seemed to have died within a week. It's right after the quote that was turned into an ad. I'll bold it, plus his final comment in the post:

  

On 11/2/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I can tell you straight up what has been going on from Grumpy's point of view.  Swamp came to HM about a month ago, asking about hitting you guys, and as the leader of Grumpy, I said i would only be on board if Rose was also on board, and Rose said no, so Grumpy was out. After about a week, I assumed the plan died since I didnt hear anything more about it.  

...

So TLDR, I would love to see all these logs, because your version of what is happening is not the same as what I have seen, and I have talked to some other alliance leaders, and they also dont know what you have been talking about.

 

Tyrion's response to this is quite informative as well:

On 11/2/2020 at 11:39 AM, Lord Tyrion said:

I don't know where Ronnie got his info.  Not accusing him of anything - if he heard or talked to somebody, it wasn't at the knowledge/direction of our leadership.  And who's doing name calling?  There is nothing going back to old ways.  No reason to not be civil here.  

Yes our intention with TCW was/is to help them get back on their feet.  Their sphere wasn't viable and they needed time to recover.  But at the same time, they did have an M-level treaty with us, so they were protected while they do so.  We are obligated to defend them.  

 

When we add in the fact that Ronnie didn't actually talk to anyone in Swamp himself, well, we start to see how the broken telephone effect may have happened...

[TRM]

@Phoenyx I have a question. I might've missed it since it probably got buried under your other 12 posts, so I'm ask again. Who do you care? What do you expect to accomplish here with your "investigative" work?

[Phoenyx]

2 minutes ago, Orcinus Orca said:

@Phoenyx I have a question. I might've missed it since it probably got buried under your other 12 posts, so I'm ask again. Who do you care? What do you expect to accomplish here with your "investigative" work?

 

I care because I care about the truth. I think that Swamp has really gotten a bad rap with all this talk that we were planning on attacking Quack first. 

[Vein]

Guys, who is this wall you guys are talking to? 

punches Phoenyx wall.

Vein inflicted 5 damage to the wall.

Guys! this is more efficient and fun! Hit his ass no balls https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=242299

[Phoenyx]

22 minutes ago, Vein said:

Guys, who is this wall you guys are talking to? 

punches Phoenyx wall.

Vein inflicted 5 damage to the wall.

Guys! this is more efficient and fun! Hit his ass no balls https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=242299

 

If you can't beat their logic, just beat them up instead eh?

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Phoenyx