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Feedback from war: Spies


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@Lord Tyrion I assure you that nuke sniping was definitely something that happened, and bots were not used. That being said I think you're right and the game should be more clear about when a nuke/missile is spyable, nothing is more annoying than a person basically spy slotfilling someone because they don't realize the nuke is protected.

As for pre, perhaps buff spy vs infra? It's literally so bad that it's a meme, so maybe let the spy kill some infra and a random improvement (excluding NPPs). It wouldn't make it overly strong, but it would give the function some use.

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I don't know about ya'll, but it took literally two assassination operations to kill all 60 of my spies, and that doesn't seem very balanced to me. Perhaps make it more difficult to instantly wipe a full stack of spies?

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Love you

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3 hours ago, Adrienne said:

 

@Lord Tyrion the protection there for nukes/missiles exists now because it didn't use to and people did exactly what you said, used bots to snipe them the second they were built.

Just clarifying this more. Bots werent used to snipe directly. They just track a person's military levels and when they bought a nuke, a bot would message a channel with a link. People were just so fast at clicking the link and spying away the nuke that the person who bought it would go to the war screen immediately afterwards and realize the nuke is not there.

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Two things in my opinion;

Spy vs spy kills needs to be nerfed; Spy recruitments needs to be increased from 2/day to 3/day without IA.

Spy vs spy kill too much and leave the other side helpless in the spy war.

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I'd love to see a new component: the ability to spy Alliances. Specifically Alliance Bank. It could be maybe a 2 spy action mission (requiring IA) that a Nation can do, but formulas are based on both their Alliance and the other Alliance's spy numbers. A formula of nominal spies in the AA and average spies per nation. This actually has a unique effect of ensuring AAs get members to build up spies, and more reason to do spy assassination campaigns against other AAs, etc. Maybe this could be expanded but I really like this conceptually.

Other ideas:

  1. Remove day-change limiter. If someone can camp a screen and snipe a missile/nuke, I don't see the problem with that. Again when nukes are used often in losing wars for one side to pad damage scores, think it's fine for them to be able to be destroyed. I'd actually love to see a player poll on this in the Discord.
  2. Success ratios on Covert is probably too strong and can be nerfed slightly.
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1 hour ago, katashimon13 said:

we had discussions on this already

not to mention the posts from the previous war 😕

satellite ruined the decent enough balance we had b4 for spies
bUt It CoStS mUlTiPlE cItIeS is not a valid argument

rawr

Spy Satellite didn't ruin the balance, it was already an issue before as the link you posted comments on. Whether you can kill 18 or 26 spies a hit only changes whether you get your spies zeroed in 1 day or 2, it matters very little when you're on the receiving end.

BrOQBND.jpg

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8 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

But if that didn't change, the game shouldn't even let you launch a spy attack if there's nothing that you can destroy - it should just say there are no nukes available to be destroyed and not have your op go through then.  Same with when they have zero spies, I've heard that sometimes that gets your own spies killed - but maybe that's been addressed.

IMO there should still be a cost here to reward those who do their homework. But slots are rare, so it should only have the full financial costs of the operation IMO but the slot wouldn't be used. I've been using nukes to bait slot filling but I think that shouldn't happen.

 

8 hours ago, Potpie99 said:

perhaps buff spy vs infra? It's literally so bad that it's a meme, so maybe let the spy kill some infra and a random improvement (excluding NPPs)

I thought it was bait to catch slot fillers. Destroying improvements would be nice, but it should be quite low, similar to ground attack odds, so someone doesn't use it to destroy 3 improvements/day lol. Maybe arcane/covert would affect odds.

Edited by Rin
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Spies kill to many spies so either increase spy buys to 10 daily or have a maximum death of 10 spies daily (not per op) 

Nukes are expensive and should be alot harder to destroy. Maybe there could be a project that allows you to protect 5 nukes and Missiles? 

Spy attacks on tanks needs to be decreased possibly halved 

A project that allows you to recruit 5 special agents that work like spies but cannot be assassinated costs 10X the cost of standard spies to buy and use but also have a increased success rate. 

Another thing that could be pretty cool is the ability to hide the number of nukes/missoles/spies that a nation has and maybe even the ability to lie about the number of soldiers tanks planes and ship's 

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The entire spy system is broken as hell, it either needs to be fixed or disabled until it can be fixed. No other units can be wiped in 3 attacks and not be rebuilt for 15-25 days. All other units can be fully rebuilt in 6 days or less. Why are spies any different. Sheepy keeps giving us fluff improvements but refuses to fix the clearly broken spy system.

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Afew things need to be changed with spys.

1st add a human check to the spy screen. Spy numbers are sopost to be secret without someone spying to check. But the fact there are bots out there that can calc the number of spys someone has though the success odds is game breaking and needs to be stopped.

2. Spys die way to fast and can all literally be killed in 2 shots if someone has the spy sat project. 

3. Spys rebuild way too slowly and it litterly takes weeks. Spy rebuild times should be more reasonable. Having the rebuild take 6 8 10 days based on projects would be much more balanced. 

 

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I kind of like the slow pace of spy building, it fits with the general pace of the game. On the other hand, I also agree with the issue around them getting killed too quick.

what about we

1) lower the success probability of spy ops

2) make spy ops more expensive (3-4 times)

3) spy op screen doesn’t show the “less than 50%”, “more than 50%” anymore

this way there is more at risk to do the ops and less is known about the outcomes

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  • 3 weeks later...

Allow spies to find military projects like Iron Dome, Missile Launch Pad, Nuclear Research Facility and Vital Defense System (one at a time). Once found they may become targets for Air, missiles or navy. This info may be share with others a war with the same nation. These are strong building so would be difficult to completely destroy. The damage could be repair at a lower cost than a new building, however would not work until repairs are made.

IE: spies find Nuclear Research Facility. Shares with others?.

Air attack damages 10% of building. Can't build nukes until fix. Repairs cost 10% (or a little more) of cost of new. As damage goes up it become harder to do more so it can't be completely destroy. 

Nukes store in the building are safe, however can't be used unless building is repair to 100%. Spies could still destroy them. 

This may help the game strategy wise once all of this is balance out correctly.

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On 11/20/2020 at 6:49 AM, Adrienne said:

I think the biggest issue is the rate they can be killed at versus the rate they be rebuilt at. It only takes a day or two to lose all your spies but it can take between 15 and 25 days to get back to full depending on what projects you have and assuming no one spies you again in the meantime. I'm not sure of the best way to fix it exactly but I've always thought that a bit odd, whether I was able to reap the benefits of it or not.

@Lord Tyrion the protection there for nukes/missiles exists now because it didn't use to and people did exactly what you said, used bots to snipe them the second they were built. 5 minute timers wouldn't make a significant difference. The better option imo is to either leave the one nuke alone or to pay attention to when it was built

I dont know why you get whole day tho - one turn seems sufficient. If you don't make and launch, it should be able to be spied. A full turn protection gets rid of the bot issue. 

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