Global War 16 - War of the Spies

[Phoenyx]

1 minute ago, Lord Vader said:

You're acting like war is a bad thing, tbh. We may be loosing but we sure are enjoying it. What's wrong with that?
And perhaps one side is more aggressive, but have you considered that the aggressor on paper may not be the aggressor in reality?

 

At first, certainly. However, the more I looked into it, the more I felt that if Quack had just sat down with Swamp and Hedge and said, "Look, you planning on attacking us first?", this could all have been resolved without a fight. 

[The Titan]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

 

At first, certainly. However, the more I looked into it, the more I felt that if Quack had just sat down with Swamp and Hedge and said, "Look, you planning on attacking us first?", this could all have been resolved without a fight. 

That takes all the fun out of it, tbh. I would much rather burn infra then sit in a group chat. (Keep in mind I am speaking for myself, and not the entirety of Quack. We certainly have people more diplomatically minded then I am.)

Not to mention, that opens up the path for them to attack us. If they know we were preparing an offensive, they could have been much more prepared. It takes about a week for the whole sphere to be military ready, so two weeks of discussion ahead of time would have given both coalitions plenty of time to arm, thus posing a much larger threat to us

Edited November 17, 2020 by Lord Vader

[Phoenyx]

8 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

No, it's not worth it.

Alright, so we disagree on that, so that's 1 for and 1 against. I'd be interested in hearing other's views on the matter.

[The Titan]

Just now, Phoenyx said:

Alright, so we disagree on that, so that's 1 for and 1 against. I'd be interested in hearing other's views on the matter.

Lol, your word carried no weight. You're not even in this war.

[Phoenyx]

12 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

That takes all the fun out of it, tbh. I would much rather burn infra then sit in a group chat. (Keep in mind I am speaking for myself, and not the entirety of Quack. We certainly have people more diplomatically minded then I am.)

Not to mention, that opens up the path for them to attack us. If they know we were preparing an offensive, they could have been much more prepared. It takes about a week for the whole sphere to be military ready, so two weeks of discussion ahead of time would have given both coalitions plenty of time to arm, thus posing a much larger threat to us

So you seem to be suggesting that you now believe that we were actually caught off guard, which is what I have heard from all the leaders on our side say. We knew you were building up, but not who you were going to attack. Anyway, if what our side says is true and there were no plans in the Swamp/HM leadership to attack you guys, then if you had reached out to us, this whole war could have been avoided. 

3 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

Lol, your word carried no weight. You're not even in this war.

Discord servers seem to think otherwise. Also, I am still in this war.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Phoenyx

[The Titan]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

So you seem to be suggesting that you now believe that we were actually caught off guard, which is what I have heard from all the leaders on our side say. We knew you were building up, but not who you were going to attack. Anyway, if what our side says is true and there were no plans in the Swamp/HM leadership to attack you guys, then if you had reached out to us, this whole war could have been avoided. 

It's no secret we were building up. But we certainly gave you less notice then what would had happened if we opened discussions.

[donsberger]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

So you seem to be suggesting that you now believe that we were actually caught off guard, which is what I have heard from all the leaders on our side say. We knew you were building up, but not who you were going to attack. Anyway, if what our side says is true and there were no plans in the Swamp/HM leadership to attack you guys, then if you had reached out to us, this whole war could have been avoided. 

Discord servers seem to think otherwise. In any case, I am actually still in this war.

You have done 2 wars since the start of the war and none since  Nov 7th. You are not actively involved in the war.

[Phoenyx]

Just now, Lord Vader said:

It's no secret we were building up. But we certainly gave you less notice then what would had happened if we opened discussions.

Agreed. Ofcourse, if you'd opened discussions, I think this whole war would have been avoided. 

1 minute ago, donsberger said:

You have done 2 wars since the start of the war and none since  Nov 7th. You are not actively involved in the war.

Is war only about fighting in the trenches? This war started due to words. It will end the same way. 

[The Titan]

3 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Discord servers seem to think otherwise. Also, I am still in this war.

You have literally big fat 0.00 leverage in this conflict. If you won't be involved in peace talks, you don't have a say in anything.

[Sisyphus]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

Agreed. Ofcourse, if you'd opened discussions, I think this whole war would have been avoided. 

Is war only about fighting in the trenches? This war started due to words. It will end the same way. 

The clock has been reset.

[The Titan]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

Agreed. Ofcourse, if you'd opened discussions, I think this whole war would have been avoided.

X - Doubt

It may not have been this dogpile, but I guarantee that us discussing with them would only delay a conflict. Someone hitting Quack was inevitable.

[Phoenyx]

2 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

You have literally big fat 0.00 leverage in this conflict. If you won't be involved in peace talks, you don't have a say in anything.

 

Don't agree with you on the first point. On the second point, I'd say I'm already involved in peace talks in the sense that I am actively working towards peace. We can debate how much of an influence I am having over the conflict, but I definitely think I have some.

2 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

The clock has been reset.

Not sure what that means.

[WarriorSoul]

39 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

We may have to agree to disagree on what "curbing Quack growth" means. I still think it was just a defensive measure as Swamp and others had begun to think that Quack was getting too big to deal with by any single sphere.  

Unless your people were planning to "curb" our growth by recruiting 100% of new players to the game *and* actively poaching our current players, the only way to do so would be war. The only way we have been growing is organically, as opposed to forming blocs and signing secret M-level treaties. You are either very naïve or acting in bad faith here.

 

14 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

At first, certainly. However, the more I looked into it, the more I felt that if Quack had just sat down with Swamp and Hedge and said, "Look, you planning on attacking us first?", this could all have been resolved without a fight. 

"Hey guys, it's us, the people you've all secretly agreed to dogpile in the event of a war? Are you guys plotting to roll us at any time in the next few months?"

[Phoenyx]

2 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

X - Doubt

It may not have been this dogpile, but I guarantee that us discussing with them would only delay a conflict. Someone hitting Quack was inevitable.

You may well have been right that someone hitting Quack may have been inevitable. Your other point though, I think we can agree that it would have been -much- better for Quack if they'd engaged in a smaller conflict. Furthermore, with enough negotiations, that might actually still happen in the current conflict. 

[Adrienne]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

Don't agree with you on the first point. On the second point, I'd say I'm already involved in peace talks in the sense that I am actively working towards peace. We can debate how much of an influence I am having over the conflict, but I definitely think I have some.

 

34 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

I will be starting a formal petition to all relevant parties to keep fighting until Phoenyx stops encouraging us to peace out.

 

6 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Agreed. Ofcourse, if you'd opened discussions, I think this whole war would have been avoided. 

 

5 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

The clock has been reset.

 

3 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Not sure what that means.

 

34 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

I will be starting a formal petition to all relevant parties to keep fighting until Phoenyx stops encouraging us to peace out.

 

[The Titan]

Just now, Phoenyx said:

You may well have been right that someone hitting Quack may have been inevitable. Your other point though, I think we can agree that it would have been -much- better for Quack if they'd engaged in a smaller conflict. Furthermore, with enough negotiations, that might actually still happen in the current conflict. 

This is my last post here, so to reflect;

(1) - This war started because we saw a threat, and acted upon it.
(1.1) - Why would we sit down with people who we know see us as a threat and say "hey, are you gonna hit us?"
(2) - This war will not conclude until at least one side has fulfilled it's agenda
(3) - QuAcK mAn BaD
(4) - We grow naturally, your coalition was trying to catch up to that by signing loads of treaties, that says a lot about who was preparing against who.

[Phoenyx]

1 minute ago, WarriorSoul said:

Unless your people were planning to "curb" our growth by recruiting 100% of new players to the game *and* actively poaching our current players, the only way to do so would be war. The only way we have been growing is organically, as opposed to forming blocs and signing secret M-level treaties. You are either very naïve or acting in bad faith here.

"Hey guys, it's us, the people you've all secretly agreed to dogpile in the event of a war? Are you guys plotting to roll us at any time in the next few months?"

 

You might have gotten a lot better results than you seem to think. Even Vader seems to concede this point somewhat in his comment of perhaps not getting dogpiled if Quack had tried to talk to Swamp/HM first. This is backed up by the fact that Tyrion, leader of Immortals, and Kaz, one of the TFP leaders, have been adamant that they hadn't even -heard- of a plan to attack you guys first. Kaz has also been vehement that if he -had- heard of such a plan, he would have opposed it with every fibre of his being. 

1 minute ago, Adrienne said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alright, I get it now :-p. Come on Adrienne- if no one wanted to talk about this, no one would be responding. 

[donsberger]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

 

You might have gotten a lot better results than you seem to think. Even Vader seems to concede this point somewhat in his comment of perhaps not getting dogpiled if Quack had tried to talk to Swamp/HM first. This is backed up by the fact that Tyrion, leader of Immortals, and Kaz, one of the TFP leaders, have been adamant that they hadn't even -heard- of a plan to attack you guys first. Kaz has also been vehement that if he -had- heard of such a plan, he would have opposed it with every fibre of his being. 

Again this is a 1 on 1 convo with you there is no evidence I could say whatever i want in a 1 on1 chat to you but you have not provided any evidence. Quack has provided at least some evidence.

[Phoenyx]

1 minute ago, Lord Vader said:

This is my last post here, so to reflect;

(1) - This war started because we saw a threat, and acted upon it.
(1.1) - Why would we sit down with people who we know see us as a threat and say "hey, are you gonna hit us?"
(2) - This war will not conclude until at least one side has fulfilled it's agenda
(3) - QuAcK mAn BaD
(4) - We grow naturally, your coalition was trying to catch up to that by signing loads of treaties, that says a lot about who was preparing against who.

1- Agreed.

1.1- Because you would have found out that the most prominent members of Swamp definitely didn't want to hit you guys first.

2- Alright. So what are the agendas of each side?

3- I never said that. Tyrion has also said that he rather likes some of those in the Quack sphere.

4- It's no secret that HM and Swamp were preparing against the possibility of you guys attacking one of them. However, from everything I've read, the main parties were only talking about defensive preparation, not offensive preparation. It looks like a few Swamp members were whispering to a few HM members about going on the offensive, but if so, the faction was so small that I still can't even pinpoint it to any Alliance and I'm not the only one who's put some effort into trying to figure out if there was an Alliance in Swamp/HM that wanted to do this. 

[Adrienne]

4 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Alright, I get it now :-p. Come on Adrienne- if no one wanted to talk about this, no one would be responding. 

You lack a fundamental understanding of the ways of Orbis, friend lol

[The Titan]

Just now, Adrienne said:

You lack a fundamental understanding of the ways of Orbis, friend lol

Adrienne 2024

[Phoenyx]

3 minutes ago, donsberger said:

Again this is a 1 on 1 convo with you there is no evidence I could say whatever i want in a 1 on1 chat to you but you have not provided any evidence. Quack has provided at least some evidence.

Evidence that Swamp/HM didn't want to attack you guys first? I have lots of that. Tyrion was very vocal about this in the forums, I could pull up a post or 2 of his if you like. 

1 minute ago, Adrienne said:

You lack a fundamental understanding of the ways of Orbis, friend lol

Enlighten me?

[donsberger]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

Evidence that Swamp/HM didn't want to attack you guys first? I have lots of that. Tyrion was very vocal about this in the forums, I could pull up a post or 2 of his if you like. 

Enlighten me?

A post on the owf after the war how convenient unlike Quack's evidence from before the war and also confirmed in private discussions on discord. Rather than a very public post. Imagine being obtuse in public view.

[TRM]

At this point, I can't tell what's worse. Pheonyx's posts, or the ppl taking him seriously. 

[Prefonteen]

1 hour ago, Sisyphus said:

I will be starting a formal petition to all relevant parties to keep fighting until Phoenyx stops encouraging us to peace out.

/s/igned for the $yndicate

Partisan

Edited November 17, 2020 by Prefonteen