Boyce and his role in the current global war

[BigMorf]

3 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

I wouldn't necessarily call you a wall.

This is the either the nicest or meanest thing you've ever said to me, and I'm unsure which. 🤔

[Phoenyx]

6 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

"Show me a single post where someone admits outright the very thing they've all committed to deny entirely!"

You are assuming that the Swamp's leadership is lying. That's a very big assumption to make. Shouldn't it be innocent until proven guilty? 

[Redarmy]

8 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Please send help. I'm triggered.

I'm here for you comrade. Together we'll fight the wall. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Redarmy

[Shiho Nishizumi]

4 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Ah, a new piece of information, always good. Here is the thing- Tyrion's not in the Commonwealth. That was -Sphinx's- domain and Tyrion has already established that TCW was a new member and they were keeping them at arm's length to see if they could actually be a good fit for Swamp. 

...after being called out by Tarroc (and even then, only begrudgingly).

Which is why his word's being treated as being dirt.

[The Titan]

2 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

You are assuming that the Swamp's leadership is lying. That's a very big assumption to make. Shouldn't it be innocent until proven guilty? 

Are you a ####en idiot? This is one of the most hypocritical things I have read since NPOLT, what makes you think our leadership is lying? What makes you think Boyce is lying? "Shouldn't it be innocent until proven guilty?"

[Kamala Khan]

@Phoenyx My advice would be to stop taking everything at face value. Not everyone is telling the truth, if you assume that everyone is, then you won’t get very far. No one is going to explicitly admit “Oh yeah, we had a plot to roll you guys haha lol.” And most people in this game aren’t pacifists like you are and have no qualms with forming an offensive coalition, which for all intents and purposes is the exact same thing as a defensive coalition. I can’t recall a time in this game where one was without the other (although maybe I’m just forgetting something, if I am, feel free to enlighten me).

[zigbigadorlou]

5 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

Ronny, from hedge. This is clearly aggressive because it is strongly implying breaking up Quack.

Where is that leak from? As far as I can tell, that's not from Grumpy channels. 

5 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

The problem here is that Ronny never talked to anyone in Swamp. It's quite possible his fellow HM leader did, but we don't know who this fellow HM leader was. 

You can probably narrow it down to a couple people.

[WarriorSoul]

5 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

This is the either the nicest or meanest thing you've ever said to me, and I'm unsure which. 🤔

I wasn't saying you're *worse* than a wall.

4 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

You are assuming that the Swamp's leadership is lying. That's a very big assumption to make. Shouldn't it be innocent until proven guilty? 

So your implication is that our coalition's leadership is lying. Obviously there's no one on these very public forums saying "hell yeah bro let's offensively attack Quack and openly admit to our scheming to do so".

But you've been presented with a mountain of circumstantial evidence that, when taken together, paints a pretty clear picture of a coalition forming to "counter" (read: attack) Quack for its substantial growth over the last several months. That you fail to connect all the dots is not our failure to provide the evidence, but your own inability to make inferences.

[The Titan]

Quote

Where is that leak from? As far as I can tell, that's not from Grumpy channels. 

@Phoenyx<-- It's from

I have no idea if it's truly reliable, but if he is going to present self contradictory evidence I am going to use it.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Lord Vader

[Phoenyx]

30 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

...after being called out by Tarroc (and even then, only begrudgingly).

Which is why his word's being treated as being dirt.

I don't get this bit about Tarroc. Anyway, after your link, I will concede it's possible that -Sphinx- and his (at the time) Commonwealth may have had a desire to turn Swamp's defensive Coalition into an offensive one, but from what Tyrion and TFP leadership have said, they were never even -approached- with this idea and had they been approached, they would have turned it down. I think that could fit with all of the narratives. Now clearly, it would be nice to know who the HM leader was that Ronny spoke to and perhaps even more importantly, who this HM leader's source was (Sphinx again?), but without that type of information, there are still some large gaps wherein many theories can be put out there.

 

However, from everything I have seen of Tyrion and TFP, they definitely wouldn't have been interested in an offensive attack against Quack. 

33 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

Are you a ####en idiot? This is one of the most hypocritical things I have read since NPOLT, what makes you think our leadership is lying? What makes you think Boyce is lying? "Shouldn't it be innocent until proven guilty?"

I'm not saying that your leadership is lying either. Even Boyce may have either misunderstood or been misled by someone else, perhaps Sphinx. But this is why it's so crucial to know things like, did Boyce speak to anyone other than Sphinx? It would also be good to know who Ronny's source was and who Ronny's source's source was (Sphinx again?). I just hope that I am inspiring people to think a bit more of the words that led to this current global war and question both who said them, why they said them, and what their sources were.

[BigMorf]

2 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

I don't get this bit about Tarroc. Anyway, after your link, I will concede it's possible that -Sphinx- and his (at the time) Commonwealth may have had a desire to turn Swamp's defensive Coalition into an offensive one, but from what Tyrion and TFP leadership have said, they were never even -approached- with this idea and had they been approached, they would have turned it down. I think that could fit with all of the narratives. Now clearly, it would be nice to know who the HM leader was that Ronny spoke to and perhaps even more importantly, who this HM leader's source was (Sphinx again?), but without that type of information, there are still some large gaps wherein many theories can be put out there.

 

However, from everything I have seen of Tyrion and TFP, they definitely wouldn't have been interested in an offensive attack against Quack. 

I don't think you understand. Of course they're going to deny it. But that doesn't mean they're telling the truth. You've already leaked private conversations you've had with your sides leadership, do you really think they're going to tell you the truth? 

[Phoenyx]

39 minutes ago, MCMaster-095 said:

@Phoenyx My advice would be to stop taking everything at face value. Not everyone is telling the truth, if you assume that everyone is, then you won’t get very far. No one is going to explicitly admit “Oh yeah, we had a plot to roll you guys haha lol.” And most people in this game aren’t pacifists like you are and have no qualms with forming an offensive coalition, which for all intents and purposes is the exact same thing as a defensive coalition. I can’t recall a time in this game where one was without the other (although maybe I’m just forgetting something, if I am, feel free to enlighten me).

 

I do take into the account that some people will lie. However, based on everything I've seen, I don't believe that those someone's were in the Swamp leadership. I also haven't seen any indication that the main people in T$ are trying to be deceptive either. The weak point in all of this is the leakers. In that shadowy world, accountability is frequently harder to come by- to get information, a lot of the time people have to protect their sources. But this makes it difficult to verify their information as well. Tyrion has frequently said that if only T$ has first talked to him about all of this, his part in the war may well have been avoided. We can't go back to the past, but we -can- try to get out of this war, especially if this war was based on, at best, a misunderstanding, and at worst deception by a small faction in one of the parties, perhaps a faction so small that they whole "faction" has gone on vacation for a year...

38 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said:

Where is that leak from? As far as I can tell, that's not from Grumpy channels. 

You can probably narrow it down to a couple people.

It is, just not in the forum, but a private message:

On 11/12/2020 at 1:34 PM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

This is the direct quote I got from one of my fellow HM leaders when i learned about you guys wanting to hit Quack. 

Time for a chat my friends. Swamp reached out to me and told me they are talking with TCW about joining together to counter Quack's growth. They are extremely uncomfortable with the idea that allowing Quack to grow and waiting for them to magically break up is a good idea.

Side note about 5 mins later I said this.

"i will say that i dont trust TCW to not leak this early

[1:03 PM]

which is my concern about fighting with TCW"

I hate being right.

 

I didn't get permission to post it, but I felt that it was too important to just leave hidden privately. I have a screenshot of it as well if people want to see that.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Phoenyx

[Kyubnyan]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

We can't go back to the past, but we -can- try to get out of this war, especially if this war was based on, at best, a misunderstanding, and at worst deception by a small faction in one of the parties, perhaps a faction so small that they whole "faction" has gone on vacation for a year...

Why would we stop now? It hasn't even gone on for that long. Don't kill muh buzz dude.

[Phoenyx]

42 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said:

Where is that leak from? As far as I can tell, that's not from Grumpy channels. 

You can probably narrow it down to a couple people.

Someone could. I'm not up on who the HM leadership is. 

40 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

So your implication is that our coalition's leadership is lying.

Not at all. I'm looking at the middle ground- the sources of information. I will even grant that some or all of them believed what they were saying. But the problem with backchannels is that those who hear things may be getting things from second and third hand sources. The possibility of the broken telephone effect becomes very strong under these circumstances. That's why I am trying so hard to get to the -original- sources of the information, not second, third, x hand accounts. 

10 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

I don't think you understand. Of course they're going to deny it. But that doesn't mean they're telling the truth. You've already leaked private conversations you've had with your sides leadership, do you really think they're going to tell you the truth? 

 

If they've been telling the truth all along, then sure. I think the easy way out of a problem is to simply assume that anyone who says something that doesn't fit your current narrative is lying. Much more difficult is to give them the benefit of the doubt and see if it is your own narrative that may be somewhat faulty. 

4 minutes ago, Kyubnyan said:

Why would we stop now? It hasn't even gone on for that long. Don't kill muh buzz dude.

Well, there are always those who are happy for any excuse to war, I will concede that :-p. 

[Charles Bolivar]

Imagine being this triggered by an obvious reroll 🤣

[Arawra]

54 minutes ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Imagine being this triggered by an obvious reroll 🤣

woah, sure pwned us, Memesphere

[Sir Scarfalot]

58 minutes ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Imagine being this triggered by an obvious reroll 🤣

Aye, but whose reroll...? Jonas? Leo? Roq? ...Roz, albeit in a particularly trolling mood? Keshav?

Wait, it could be Keshav... 🤔 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Sir Scarfalot

[Pasky Darkfire]

Just now, Sir Scarfalot said:

Aye, but whose reroll...? Jonas? Leo? Roq? ...Roz, albeit in a particularly trolling mood? Keshav?

Wait, it could be Keshav... 🤔 

 

Those posts are WAAAAAAAAAY to short to be Keshav. It's Obviously Roq.

[Phoenyx]

You guys are such amateur investigators, but if you believe the official story that T$ believes regarding what started this war, I suppose it stands to reason. The evidence, both that I am not a "reroll" as well as the truth behind this war, is there for all to see, but it may mess with your preconceived notions and it's certainly easier to believe whatever it is you currently believe then to examine it for potential flaws.

[Charles Bolivar]

43 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Aye, but whose reroll...? Jonas? Leo? Roq? ...Roz, albeit in a particularly trolling mood? Keshav?

Wait, it could be Keshav... 🤔 

 

What odds can I get on it being Milton? 20 to 1?

[Arawra]

11 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

You guys are such amateur investigators, but if you believe the official story that T$ believes regarding what started this war, I suppose it stands to reason. The evidence, both that I am not a "reroll" as well as the truth behind this war, is there for all to see, but it may mess with your preconceived notions and it's certainly easier to believe whatever it is you currently believe then to examine it for potential flaws.

Very ironic, reroll

[Phoenyx]

Just now, Hime-sama said:

Very ironic, reroll

Do you guys believe in evidence at all? No wonder you were all fooled by Sphinx/Boyce and/or wherever their sources were. 

[Arawra]

Just now, Phoenyx said:

Do you guys believe in evidence at all? No wonder you were all fooled by Sphinx/Boyce and/or wherever their sources were. 

Seems legit, reroll

[Shiho Nishizumi]

15 minutes ago, Charles Bolivar said:

What odds can I get on it being Milton? 20 to 1?

Nah, Milton was more dismissive/sarcastic and wrote far shorter texts.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Shiho Nishizumi

[Phoenyx]

4 minutes ago, Hime-sama said:

Seems legit, reroll

Sigh -.-. On a side note, your avatar is cute :-p. 

Just now, Shiho Nishizumi said:

Nah, Milton was more dismissive and wrote far shorter texts.

I knew my faith in you wasn't misplaced :-). Shiho has what it takes to do some serious investigating. But she has to want to do it. My DMs are open and all that jazz...