[DoW] Look What You Made Me Do

[Thrawn]

1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

 

What I don't understand is why you are so certain that TCW and Hedge would have attacked you guys first. I have heard claims of leaks, but I have yet to see any, unless you count the words of someone called Boyce saying that they were going to attack as enough in and of itself. Is that all that Quack has for evidence?

 

Anyway, I haven't seen any posts from Camelot. Since I was in the Swamp and I'm now in Rose, those are the 2 groups that I'm concentrating on here. Anyway, yous ay there was "extensive back channel communication and clearly a massive plot to destroy Quack", but I haven't seen any evidence of either.

Several gov members on HM side did come forward and say there were backroom deals against Quack. That's been confirmed. What hasn't is the massive plot to destroy Quack.

[Phoenyx]

5 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

Yeah the post I made addresses all of that, except Cam's DoW. I don't even know why Rose/CAM are under any scrutnity for plotting tbh. All you gotta do is just read it.

 

Could you link it?

[Thrawn]

47 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

There were no mountains of evidence to the contrary, and if there are, they're not public yet. I'll also redirect you to the post, I made regarding the Quack's case.

@Phoenyx there you go.

I never intended to derail the thread, my bad for all that.

[Phoenyx]

1 minute ago, Arric II Vysera said:

Several gov members on HM side did come forward and say there were backroom deals against Quack. That's been confirmed. What hasn't is the massive plot to destroy Quack.

 

Alright, so basically HM (which I think is Hedge) did have some plans to do something against Quack. However, by itself, they wouldn't have gotten very far. That's the gist of it? It also makes me wonder why TCW was attacked if it was only Hedge that was making these plans. 

4 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

@Phoenyx there you go.

I never intended to derail the thread, my bad for all that.

Ah ok, I'd already read some of that post. I've read more of it now. Very good post in my view. 

[Arawra]

2 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

Alright, so basically HM (which I think is Hedge) did have some plans to do something against Quack. However, by itself, they wouldn't have gotten very far. That's the gist of it? It also makes me wonder why TCW was attacked if it was only Hedge that was making these plans. 

The Boyce fellow you mentioned earlier is the leader of TEst, an alliance previously treatied to tCW. After becoming treatied to our sphere (because tCW dropped TEst as a condition for tCW to treaty to Swamp), he brought the information to light about tCW plotting to attack Quack. His credibility comes from his position in the alliance and that prior connection to tCW, where he would be privy to war plans and organization.

TEst is not a "spy," as you seem to think (or were told), they were forced out of their previous sphere and chose us afterward.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hime-sama

[Tartarus]

4 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

No, he's saying that if you hadn't attacked Hedge and TCW, there would be no global fight. Perhaps no fight at all. I took a look at the post he's referencing. In it, there's just one guy -claiming- that hedge and swamp (and presumably TCW) would attack Quack in the near future. And the guy was the spy, not someone who was actually on the other side. Now, it's possible that this Boyce fellow believed what he said, but I'm sure you've heard of the broken telephone effect. And I can't discount the possibility that Boyce may have even known that some or all of what he said in that short sentence wasn't true.

You can drink the cool-aid of whatever alliance you joined, the fact of the matter is in this thread we have a no-name general member sprouting the same propaganda his alliance fed him, which pales next to what was said by somebody of actual important from your coalition in another thread, where they detailed that there was a plan and ploy to attack Quack. 

[Thrawn]

2 hours ago, Tartarus said:

You can drink the cool-aid of whatever alliance you joined, the fact of the matter is in this thread we have a no-name general member sprouting the same propaganda his alliance fed him, which pales next to what was said by somebody of actual important from your coalition in another thread, where they detailed that there was a plan and ploy to attack Quack. 

I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit me. You said something about importance before, but I ignored it thinking you just misspoke, only for you to say it again. I only thought being in gov only added weight to your personal credibility, not importance. While I do understand there's influence and some level of status behind it, what's that got to with anything here?

Why is it that individuals at the forefront of your coalition, some of the most respected and experienced players in the game can approach me like a peer, when they got no obligations to even address me... but you're here !@#$ing about my position to a newer player?

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Arric II Vysera

[Pubstomper]

4 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit me. You said something about importance before, but I ignored it thinking you just misspoke, only for you to say it again. I only thought being in gov only added weight to your personal credibility, not importance. While I do understand there's influence and some level of status behind it, what's that got to with anything here?

Why is it that individuals at the forefront of your coalition, some of the most respected and experienced players in the game can approach me like a peer, when they got no obligations to even address me... but you're here !@#$ing about my position to a newer player?

 

tbf... the only player that actually matters is yoso

[Tartarus]

39 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit me. You said something about importance before, but I ignored it thinking you just misspoke, only for you to say it again. I only thought being in gov only added weight to your personal credibility, not importance. While I do understand there's influence and some level of status behind it, what's that got to with anything here?

Why is it that individuals at the forefront of your coalition, some of the most respected and experienced players in the game can approach me like a peer, when they got no obligations to even address me... but you're here !@#$ing about my position to a newer player?

 

I'm not trying to do anything of the sort. Being in gov doesn't just add importance, it adds 'opsec' conversations and the need-to-know info towards an issue such as this. Thus, the only position you can stand from is what you've been told by such people that you trust.

[Phoenyx]

6 hours ago, Hime-sama said:

The Boyce fellow you mentioned earlier is the leader of TEst, an alliance previously treatied to tCW. After becoming treatied to our sphere (because tCW dropped TEst as a condition for tCW to treaty to Swamp), he brought the information to light about tCW plotting to attack Quack. His credibility comes from his position in the alliance and that prior connection to tCW, where he would be privy to war plans and organization.

TEst is not a "spy," as you seem to think (or were told), they were forced out of their previous sphere and chose us afterward.

I wasn't told anything about Boyce. I just saw from a post of Alric that his testimony seemed to be key and it seemed he was acting as a spy, so that's what I assumed he was. I have now been told by the FA in Rose that Rose isn't comfortable with the way I am communicating and I may need to leave Rose soon since I refuse to stop talking about my views on the war. My lack of knowledge on who Boyce is didn't help. As a player who is pretty new to the politics in this game, it's natural that I will make mistakes. However, I don't think the solution is disallow me from speaking my views on the war, but rather to educate me.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Phoenyx

[WarriorSoul]

33 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

I wasn't told anything about Boyce. I just saw from a post of Alric that his testimony seemed to be key and it seemed he was acting as a spy, so that's what I assumed he was. I have now been told by the FA in Rose that Rose isn't comfortable with the way I am communicating and I may need to leave Rose soon since I refuse to stop talking about my views on the war. My lack of knowledge on who Boyce is didn't help. As a player who is pretty new to the politics in this game, it's natural that I will make mistakes. However, I don't think the solution is disallow me from speaking my views on the war, but rather to educate me.

Don't worry - there are 367 better options for you to join  

[Phoenyx]

53 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

Don't worry - there are 367 better options for you to join  

I actually miss them already. Anyway, after long discussions with senior Rose officials on how to conduct diplomacy, I decided that I preferred my own brand of riskier and active learning. So, I decided to rejoin my old alliance, FSR, in order to pursue that route. 

I have now rejoined my old Alliance, FSR, who is still in the Swamp, but is a smaller Alliance and is ok with me taking more risks in what I say in the search for the truth.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Phoenyx

[Prefonteen]

4 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

I actually miss them already. Anyway, after long discussions with senior Rose officials on how to conduct diplomacy, I decided that I preferred my own brand of riskier and active learning. So, I decided to rejoin my old alliance, FSR, in order to pursue that route. 

I have now rejoined my old Alliance, FSR, who is still in the Swamp, but is a smaller Alliance and is ok with me taking more risks in what I say in the search for the truth.

What is truth, in the face of ever-fickle revisionism, friend?

[James II]

I like how every alliance he goes to in hegemony sphere he is told they aren't comfortable with him asking questions. Poor guy.

[Phoenyx]

3 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

What is truth, in the face of ever-fickle revisionism, friend?

Not sure what you mean by this, but I will say that I definitely think that if I am mistaken about something, it's definitely good to know this. I didn't know who Boyce was and this was causing problems because Rose didn't want anyone to think that they didn't think his words were noteworthy. However, I have also spoken directly to people high up in Swamp and they have said that they would never have gone to war with Quack first as it would have been suicide. The trick here, ofcourse, is knowing who Boyce's source was. It's possible that Boyce was being misled. Or perhaps someone fairly low level in Swamp had some ideas as to what they should do but it would never have been approved by upper management. The devil is frequently in the details. 

1 hour ago, James II said:

I like how every alliance he goes to in hegemony sphere he is told they aren't comfortable with him asking questions. Poor guy.

Well, that didn't happen in FSR as of yet. They are part of Swamp though and I know that high level people in Swamp are cautious about all of this. So I am ofcourse playing a delicate balancing act, but I strongly suspect that this would be true regardless of what side I was on. I still strongly believe that Swamp would never have attacked Quack first because of my source. Swamp is all about defense anyway, not attack. As to Hedge and tCW, I'm not sure. 

1 hour ago, James II said:

I like how every alliance he goes to in hegemony sphere he is told they aren't comfortable with him asking questions. Poor guy.

FSR has been pretty supportive, so I am continuing on. 

[Arawra]

39 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

The trick here, ofcourse, is knowing who Boyce's source was.

The (now ex) leader of the Commonwealth, lol

[Phoenyx]

4 minutes ago, Hime-sama said:

The (now ex) leader of the Commonwealth, lol

 

Ok, so perhaps we are making some progress here. So, perhaps this Commonwealth did in fact have some plan to go for Quack. If they had done so alone, however, I think we can all agree that they would have been toast. However, by Quack attacking them first, it gave them a reason to say that Quack was the aggressor and the global war was on. Could this be the long and the short of it?

[HeroofTime55]

13 hours ago, Arric II Vysera said:

I don't know why you're trying so hard to discredit me.

You have discredited yourself with your incessant lies.

[Leopold von Habsburg]

18 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 

Ok, so perhaps we are making some progress here. So, perhaps this Commonwealth did in fact have some plan to go for Quack. If they had done so alone, however, I think we can all agree that they would have been toast. However, by Quack attacking them first, it gave them a reason to say that Quack was the aggressor and the global war was on. Could this be the long and the short of it?

But you see my friend, Swamp is claiming now that TCW is a full member of their sphere not just an ally of Ampersand. And well the logs in question that are posted on this forum, are of sphinx claiming he is building a coalition to target Quacksphere. Sphinx, the long time leader of TCW, and lets be real his resigning and throwing himself into vacation mode 2 days before the war broke out does not cleanse TCW of any of the guilt of that action.

I think your friends in Swamp are lying to you about having no intentions to attack us or the communication within the sphere is completely non existent which I can't believe considering the coordination of the multi sphere coalition in responding to us.

[Arawra]

26 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Ok, so perhaps we are making some progress here. So, perhaps this Commonwealth did in fact have some plan to go for Quack. If they had done so alone, however, I think we can all agree that they would have been toast. However, by Quack attacking them first, it gave them a reason to say that Quack was the aggressor and the global war was on. Could this be the long and the short of it?

It feels like you're missing a lot of information, information that is publicly available on these forums. I would urge you to go read up more and digest it all, instead of solely what your coalition leadership has fed to you and asking us to reexplain things that have already been thoroughly explained.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Hime-sama

[Thrawn]

8 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

You have discredited yourself with your incessant lies.

I've made little if any affirmative claims and everything I've said is based on (PUBLIC) arguments and evidence by leaders from both Quack and HM-sphere.

[Prefonteen]

41 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

 

Ok, so perhaps we are making some progress here. So, perhaps this Commonwealth did in fact have some plan to go for Quack. If they had done so alone, however, I think we can all agree that they would have been toast. However, by Quack attacking them first, it gave them a reason to say that Quack was the aggressor and the global war was on. Could this be the long and the short of it?

No, it is not. Agreements between Commonwealth, Swamp, HM and Rose (different agreements, to varying degrees) were in place before we fired a shot. In fact, we attacked *because* we found out about that.

[Phoenyx]

20 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

You have discredited yourself with your incessant lies.

Arric's logic seems to be sound to me...

[Lossi]

2 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

I've made little if any affirmative claims and everything I've said is based on (PUBLIC) arguments and evidence by leaders from both Quack and HM-sphere.

As a former guardian, I won't trash those guys because I still have the utmost respect for them.  But you should realize and understand, there's a huge difference between between the story leaders tell each other, vs stories they tell members while they're on the winning side and don't need to care about the pr fallout of their statements.

[Phoenyx]

27 minutes ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

But you see my friend, Swamp is claiming now that TCW is a full member of their sphere not just an ally of Ampersand. And well the logs in question that are posted on this forum, are of sphinx claiming he is building a coalition to target Quacksphere. Sphinx, the long time leader of TCW, and lets be real his resigning and throwing himself into vacation mode 2 days before the war broke out does not cleanse TCW of any of the guilt of that action.

I think your friends in Swamp are lying to you about having no intentions to attack us or the communication within the sphere is completely non existent which I can't believe considering the coordination of the multi sphere coalition in responding to us.

My Swamp source not only doesn't want their identity revealed, they don't even want me to put what they said in to my own words. However, I will say this- they don't seem to be a fan of Sphynx. You -think- that the people I have spoken to are lying, but you don't know who they are. I do. I honestly think they should say their own thing here, but they just feel that their words will be twisted and it will be worse than saying nothing at all. I think it's sad that the highest ranking member in an Alliance in Swamp talking here is me, but there you have it. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Phoenyx