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[DoW] Look What You Made Me Do


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Well, I just finished reading through all of this thread. Very interesting. I particularly liked Pubstomper's last post. I can't say I understand it, but if I -did-, then I think I'd have a much better understanding of why Rose decided to get into this war on my side (My Alliance is part of the SWAMP). I'll take an educated guess as to what Pub meant, as far as my education goes, and see if I get a response. So my theory is that Valk was getting along with Partisan but then Partisan did something that really annoyed Valk. Then Valk got into a fight with Hedge and Partisan, who it seems was supposed to help Valk, decided to travel the world instead. The bit about money eludes me. I'm guessing Hedge has something to do with money (hedge funds come to money). I'm also guessing that Valk got into a fight with them. Then Valk saw the upcoming fight between SWAMP and Quack (and I think that Syndicate is part of quack) and thought, what if I switch sides? SWAMP Alliances seem to defend each other on que, might be nice to have a more reliable partner. Now, I fully admit that I may be way off in some or all of this. I welcome any corrections :-). 

 

As to who I am, I'm just a little guy in The Fighting Pacifists, part of the SWAMP. I dutifully attacked 2 assigned targets, but I also sent my opponents' messages, seeing if I could engage in a bit of diplomacy at the grunt level. First guy never responded, but the second guy did. He didn't know what this whole war was about, told me he had just been told to build up his troops- that we were just pawns in a larger game. I started realizing I didn't really understand why we were at war either, other than that the SWAMP had been attacked and we protect our allies. That still begged the question as to why the SWAMP was attacked though. I looked into that a bit finally got to something about both sides claiming they were the ones attacked. As can be expected, my Alliance believes SWAMP was the one attacked and with an Alliance called "The Fighting Pacifists", I felt it was unlikely that we were particularly fond of starting wars (It's why I joined them to begin with). 

 

Edited by Phoenyx
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35 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Well, I just finished reading through all of this thread. Very interesting. I particularly liked Pubstomper's last post. I can't say I understand it, but if I -did-, then I think I'd have a much better understanding of why Rose decided to get into this war on my side (My Alliance is part of the SWAMP). I'll take an educated guess as to what Pub meant, as far as my education goes, and see if I get a response. So my theory is that Valk was getting along with Partisan but then Partisan did something that really annoyed Valk. Then Valk got into a fight with Hedge and Partisan, who it seems was supposed to help Valk, decided to travel the world instead. The bit about money eludes me. I'm guessing Hedge has something to do with money (hedge funds come to money). I'm also guessing that Valk got into a fight with them. Then Valk saw the upcoming fight between SWAMP and Quack (and I think that Syndicate is part of quack) and thought, what if I switch sides? SWAMP Alliances seem to defend each other on que, might be nice to have a more reliable partner. Now, I fully admit that I may be way off in some or all of this. I welcome any corrections :-). 

 

As to who I am, I'm just a little guy in The Fighting Pacifists, part of the SWAMP. I dutifully attacked 2 assigned targets, but I also sent my opponents' messages, seeing if I could engage in a bit of diplomacy at the grunt level. First guy never responded, but the second guy did. He didn't know what this whole war was about, told me he had just been told to build up his troops- that we were just pawns in a larger game. I started realizing I didn't really understand why we were at war either, other than that the SWAMP had been attacked and we protect our allies. That still begged the question as to why the SWAMP was attacked though. I looked into that a bit finally got to something about both sides claiming they were the ones attacked. As can be expected, my Alliance believes SWAMP was the one attacked and with an Alliance called "The Fighting Pacifists", I felt it was unlikely that we were particularly fond of starting wars (It's why I joined them to begin with). 

 

My friend, Quack never hit Swamp.  We hit Hedge and TCW because they were plotting a war against us.  Swamp and Rose also were part of that plot.  We caught wind of this and hit TCW and Hedge because we figured we would do it now instead of waiting until late November.  Swamp and Rose instantly countered us, Rose even launched spy ops before we did our blitz.  My friend, you are part of a coalition that plotted a war of aggression and annihilation, for no reason other than that we (Quack) were big enough to be "in the way" of their ambitions, as it were.  

May I ask, at what time on what day were you assigned targets?

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26 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

My friend, Quack never hit Swamp.  We hit Hedge and TCW because they were plotting a war against us.  Swamp and Rose also were part of that plot.  We caught wind of this and hit TCW and Hedge because we figured we would do it now instead of waiting until late November.  Swamp and Rose instantly countered us, Rose even launched spy ops before we did our blitz.  My friend, you are part of a coalition that plotted a war of aggression and annihilation, for no reason other than that we (Quack) were big enough to be "in the way" of their ambitions, as it were.  

May I ask, at what time on what day were you assigned targets?

 

I went back to our notes to see. The first thing my Alliance told members is that that Quack block did in fact attack Swamp. This was mentioned on October 30th. However, the next day, we were told that Hedge and TCW were initial targets and "we" were asked by Quack to step aside. I'm guessing Quack was asking Swamp. Now what I don't know is if Hedge and TCW were part of SWAMP. If they were, then it would make sense that the rest of SWAMP would come to their defense. If they weren't, that's different. 

 

Now, as to this attack that you claim was going to happen in November, I have no knowledge of.  Assuming it's true, I also have no knowledge as to the reasoning for that decision. Anyway, what do you think needs to happen for this war to end?

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1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

 

I went back to our notes to see. The first thing my Alliance told members is that that Quack block did in fact attack Swamp. This was mentioned on October 30th. However, the next day, we were told that Hedge and TCW were initial targets and "we" were asked by Quack to step aside. I'm guessing Quack was asking Swamp. Now what I don't know is if Hedge and TCW were part of SWAMP. If they were, then it would make sense that the rest of SWAMP would come to their defense. If they weren't, that's different. 

 

Now, as to this attack that you claim was going to happen in November, I have no knowledge of.  Assuming it's true, I also have no knowledge as to the reasoning for that decision. Anyway, what do you think needs to happen for this war to end?

Hedge and TCW are not part of Swamp.  Swamp was never attacked by us until y'all decided to engage.  Which, again, your coalition had already planned out.  There were some logs that leaked proving the plot, and also the massive retaliation for our pre-empt would never have been possible if your coalition did not already have plans in place.

Also there are direct quotes from leaders in your coalition (see my sig) admitting to the planning of a coalition to attack us.

Out actions ultimately are defensive in nature against Swamp/Hedge/Rose/TCW aggression.  We struck first because we weren't going to wait for y'all to punch us in the nose first.  If you don't agree with that sort of behavior, I commend you, but suggest that you should find new allies.

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2 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Hedge and TCW are not part of Swamp.  Swamp was never attacked by us until y'all decided to engage.  Which, again, your coalition had already planned out.  There were some logs that leaked proving the plot, and also the massive retaliation for our pre-empt would never have been possible if your coalition did not already have plans in place.

Also there are direct quotes from leaders in your coalition (see my sig) admitting to the planning of a coalition to attack us.

Out actions ultimately are defensive in nature against Swamp/Hedge/Rose/TCW aggression.  We struck first because we weren't going to wait for y'all to punch us in the nose first.  If you don't agree with that sort of behavior, I commend you, but suggest that you should find new allies.

Well, perhaps Hedge and TCW are not part of Swamp, but our Alliance defined them as allies. And surely you would agree that one should defend one's allies? Anyway, what's done is done. What do you think needs to happen to end this war? I want to see more happy Knights Radiant ads :-p. 

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1 minute ago, Phoenyx said:

Well, perhaps Hedge and TCW are not part of Swamp, but our Alliance defined them as allies. And surely you would agree that one should defend one's allies? Anyway, what's done is done. What do you think needs to happen to end this war? I want to see more happy Knights Radiant ads :-p. 

Except, Hedge and Swamp were not known to be allies, except as part of a secret plot to destroy our side.

I don't know what ends this war.  We've been in this position before, facing enemies who wish to destroy us.  This is nothing new.  You will not prevail in that objective, and we will fight on and make it as painful as possible for you.

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26 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Except, Hedge and Swamp were not known to be allies, except as part of a secret plot to destroy our side.

I don't know what ends this war.  We've been in this position before, facing enemies who wish to destroy us.  This is nothing new.  You will not prevail in that objective, and we will fight on and make it as painful as possible for you.

I want to point out that I joined The Fighting Pacifists because I believed that their claimed modus operandi was true- that is, that they don't attack unless attacked. Now naturally, to be truly safe, they would need to join a confederation and so they joined the SWAMP that I imagine felt best fit their playing style.

 

Now as to ending the war, I suppose fighting until one side cries "uncle" would be one way of doing it, but the other might be in looking deeper into how it all started.  You and others claim that Swamp and others (I imagine those others include Hege and TCW) had been planning on attacking Quack before before you guys attacked Hedge and TCW. That, in fact, you guys attacked them precisely because you didn't want to wait for the other side to get all their ducks lined up in a row, as it were. No one has contested this that I can see, so i will assume that it's true unless contested.

 

However, that doesn't get into the why of it. Why did they want to attack Quack? You or someone else mentioned something about Swamp and others' ambition, but I'm wondering if the real reason may have to do with old scores to settle. A post in another thread with what I'll call Valk's parable (not actually written by Valk) suggests that this was Rose's primary motivation for joining.  And while Grumpy does seem to mention they would only join if Rose joined, I think the only reason they even considered it is because they too had an axe to grind with Quack. I'm new to all this, so all i can do is guess, but I'm definitely interested in learning more. 

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@Phoenyx please do not try to interpret my post or read into it. I'm actually cracking up that you were interpreting it the way you were. I honestly don't know the reasons for the war and I don't care much what they are, I just follow the orders of the people really investing time into the politics of this world. I don't think Valk and Partisan talk much(beyond typical FA stuff) or ever really have in all honesty, maybe they do but I am not privy to such conversations. But please know that you made my night with your literary analysis of my shitpost. 

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14 minutes ago, Pubstomper said:

@Phoenyx please do not try to interpret my post or read into it. I'm actually cracking up that you were interpreting it the way you were. I honestly don't know the reasons for the war and I don't care much what they are, I just follow the orders of the people really investing time into the politics of this world. I don't think Valk and Partisan talk much(beyond typical FA stuff) or ever really have in all honesty, maybe they do but I am not privy to such conversations. But please know that you made my night with your literary analysis of my shitpost. 

 

I see :-p. Well, I'm glad I made you laugh anyway :-). And honestly, when people don't know the reasons for things, they tend to make up stories anyway. Yours definitely helped form some kind of a narrative for why Rose joined even if it was all speculation. Also, I've been reading other posts and I think there's a grain or 2 of truth in what I'm guessing :-p. I leave you with this: There is truth in our fictions and fictions in our truth.

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4 hours ago, Adrienne said:

I like you, Phoenyx, you're fun. 

 

Thank you :-). Unfortunately, a senior official in my Alliance' Administration doesn't feel that way. It looks like I may have to leave my Alliance in order to keep on talking. I just want an Alliance/Confederation where we only attack if attacked -and- we are allowed to talk with the big boys even if I am rather small. Said senior Alliance Administration is saying I should talk to Error 404 so I will try them.

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Well, it's been decided that the differences with my Alliance are indeed irreconcilable. I've been removed from my Alliance now. Now to see if I can find another one that will allow me to post here the way I have been. 

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Well, I've now been admitted into the FSR, which is also in the Swamp. They actually said I could take refuge with them since I was removed from TFP. I think we can agree that a Nation that isn't in an Alliance is in a precarious position. It's nice to know that I can still be in the Swamp even if not with TFP anymore. Not sure I'll say much more for the time being, but I will say that someone who is high up in TFP and the Swamp has said that the Swamp had no intention of going to war with Quack first. 

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2 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

Well, I've now been admitted into the FSR, which is also in the Swamp. They actually said I could take refuge with them since I was removed from TFP. I think we can agree that a Nation that isn't in an Alliance is in a precarious position. It's nice to know that I can still be in the Swamp even if not with TFP anymore. Not sure I'll say much more for the time being, but I will say that someone who is high up in TFP and the Swamp has said that the Swamp had no intention of going to war with Quack first. 

Sorry to hear your alliance disliked your engagement on the forums.  You've been fun to chat with!

Of course, the narrative told to the foot soldiers is that "we were never going to go to war with them first."  The reality is that we acquired leaked chat logs of the coming storm, Swamp and friends already had their target lists ready (which is how they were able to counter us nearly instantaneously), and we have direct admissions from coalition leaders that they were planing a hit.  The evidence is overwhelming.  Quack simply chose to accelerate their schedule, but that does not make us aggressors.

I hope you have better luck with your new alliance, but it seems like Swamp wants ideally dumb foot soldiers.  You think too much ;)

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8 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

I don't know what ends this war.  We've been in this position before, facing enemies who wish to destroy us.  This is nothing new.  You will not prevail in that objective, and we will fight on and make it as painful as possible for you.

Welp, now both sides have been compared to IQ now.

Be fair, m8. Our enemies might be hegemons/dogpilers/sneakypants/a bit disingenuous, but even they aren't toxic or trying to completely eradicate us. I'd like to think that both coalitions learned a bit more from NPOLT than that.

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1 minute ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Welp, now both sides have been compared to IQ now.

Be fair, m8. Our enemies might be hegemons/dogpilers/sneakypants/a bit disingenuous, but even they aren't toxic or trying to completely eradicate us. I'd like to think that both coalitions learned a bit more from NPOLT than that.

If they're going to call us that while plotting to dogpile us, I see no reason it can't simply be thrown back in their faces.  That they make the accusation against us in the first place helps reveal their motives and objectives, anyway.  They're trying to demonize us - why?  Yes, it's hard to rise to the extreme toxicity levels of NPO.  But why were we painted with that brush?  I don't think they intend to remove us from the game as players, but I do think they are trying to tear our bloc apart.  My point is, it won't work, and they're in for an ugly surprise.

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3 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

Well, it's been decided that the differences with my Alliance are indeed irreconcilable. I've been removed from my Alliance now. Now to see if I can find another one that will allow me to post here the way I have been. 

I'm sorry TFP kicked you for posting on the OWF. I didn't know hegemony sphere had such strict gag orders on their members. I hope you find a group that treats it's members with respect.

2 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

Well, I've now been admitted into the FSR, which is also in the Swamp. They actually said I could take refuge with them since I was removed from TFP. I think we can agree that a Nation that isn't in an Alliance is in a precarious position. It's nice to know that I can still be in the Swamp even if not with TFP anymore. Not sure I'll say much more for the time being, but I will say that someone who is high up in TFP and the Swamp has said that the Swamp had no intention of going to war with Quack first. 

They can say it all they want. The logs/coalition server doesn't lie. 😋

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9 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

My friend, Quack never hit Swamp.  We hit Hedge and TCW because they were plotting a war against us.  Swamp and Rose also were part of that plot.  We caught wind of this and hit TCW and Hedge because we figured we would do it now instead of waiting until late November.  Swamp and Rose instantly countered us, Rose even launched spy ops before we did our blitz.  My friend, you are part of a coalition that plotted a war of aggression and annihilation, for no reason other than that we (Quack) were big enough to be "in the way" of their ambitions, as it were.  

May I ask, at what time on what day were you assigned targets?

You are very dramatic using words like annihilation. This isn't the IQ era where there was hatred between sides. I'd refrain from trying to paint that picture when it is completely false if I was you. This is simply a war where the smaller spheres are were pressured into protecting itself from a sphere that could force the world into bipolar or hegemony if not put in check. How each bloc came to this conclusion is different but not hidden. 

Be it tS rattling at CAM for the last however long due to old ties to a group best forgotten or the attitude shown toward members of Hedge. You add in your size and ability than its not hard to see what pushed us towards our stance. Trying to pretend that you are just an innocent victim is a fallacy when some people decided to force hands. 

I'm unaware of Rose spying before they countered. When we were getting blitzed, if you want to say that is what you done, Hedge was just riding the wave doing spy attacks while we waited for others to join. Also trying to argue that it takes alot of planning to pull off counters is a lie. We aren't back in the old days where you have to type everything out spending hours building a sheet so most competent alliances that have departments that work together can pump this stuff out rather quickly. 

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13 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

This is simply a war where the smaller spheres are were pressured into protecting itself from a sphere that could force the world into bipolar or hegemony if not put in check.

Except for the fact that we had no desires and kept ourselves small thinking that a multipolar world was desirable.  The idea that we needed to be held "in check" is utterly laughable.  The reality is that TI was upset that we wouldn't form an actual hegemony with them, and we became in the way of their ambitions, so they ran off and formed Swamp to begin the process of plotting to dismantle our bloc.  Those are the simple facts of the matter.  Pretending in any way that you plotted this "for protection" is utterly laughable.
 

13 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

Be it tS rattling at CAM for the last however long due to old ties to a group best forgotten

You mean when they were allied to NPO at the beginning of this year and trying to force t$ out of the game?  This is a curiously light reading on that history.  But t$ had reached out to try to make amends.  Apparently for naught, as we got a truly classic work of unintentional irony out of Camelot's DoW.
 

13 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

You add in your size and ability than its not hard to see what pushed us towards our stance. Trying to pretend that you are just an innocent victim is a fallacy when some people decided to force hands. 

We're the Big Bad Guys and Not Innocent because we.... grew too fast?  Because we were more competent?  Only the insecure perceive those things to be threats.  But this is also why this plot will cost you dearly.
 

13 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

I'm unaware of Rose spying before they countered. When we were getting blitzed, if you want to say that is what you done, Hedge was just riding the wave doing spy attacks while we waited for others to join. Also trying to argue that it takes alot of planning to pull off counters is a lie. We aren't back in the old days where you have to type everything out spending hours building a sheet so most competent alliances that have departments that work together can pump this stuff out rather quickly. 

The counters came out within 3 minutes.  To argue that there was no pre-planning is a total and complete lie.

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19 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

This isn't the IQ era 

 

19 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

CAM

 

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1 hour ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Of course, the narrative told to the foot soldiers is that "we were never going to go to war with them first."  The reality is that we acquired leaked chat logs of the coming storm, Swamp and friends already had their target lists ready (which is how they were able to counter us nearly instantaneously), and we have direct admissions from coalition leaders that they were planing a hit.  The evidence is overwhelming.  Quack simply chose to accelerate their schedule, but that does not make us aggressors.

There's alot of BS going on m8

What else does Quack have except the Sphinx leaked chat log? I'm truly interested here. if you've any type of proof why don't you guys post it already, instead of using bait post to gain sympathy.

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2 minutes ago, Flavee said:

There's alot of BS going on m8

What else does Quack have except the Sphinx leaked chat log? I'm truly interested here. if you've any type of proof why don't you guys post it already, instead of using bait post to gain sympathy.

I literally listed 2 other things in the very post you quoted.  Good lord.

...But you can add a fourth point: Camelot posted the hilarious DoW they had written up for when they were to initiate their attack against us.  The rest of your coalition was at least smart enough to drop the pretense and just engage.  Cam?  Not so much.

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1 hour ago, James II said:

I'm sorry TFP kicked you for posting on the OWF. I didn't know hegemony sphere had such strict gag orders on their members. I hope you find a group that treats it's members with respect.

They can say it all they want. The logs/coalition server doesn't lie. 😋

 

Thank you James. I don't know what you mean by Hegemony, but clearly TFP itself is pretty strict about these types of things. However, the fact that another Swamp Alliance let me in suggests that this isn't uniform throughout the Swamp. 

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10 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

I literally listed 2 other things in the very post you quoted.  Good lord.

...But you can add a fourth point: Camelot posted the hilarious DoW they had written up for when they were to initiate their attack against us.  The rest of your coalition was at least smart enough to drop the pretense and just engage.  Cam?  Not so much.

Think it like that

We (Rose and Cam) come to help now or gets screwed by Quacksphere later on.

And Btw T$ CB wasn't good either.

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