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[DoW]Planes go BRRRR


Exar Kun -George
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Look, if a sphere can be reliably defeated in any capacity, then they're not a hegemony.

That should really be obvious.

Now, as for whether or not either coalition counts... we shall have to see. Winner is a hegemon :P

suddenly both sides desperately try to lose to avoid being the hegemon

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5 hours ago, Mayor said:

For the love of Christ this coming from TKR of all alliances. Such hypocrisy. TKR is the dogpile champion of alliances. Everyone dogpiles in these globals, convenient how often everyone forgets.

We really are the dogpile champs. Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets dogpiled like we do. 

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14 hours ago, Miller said:

We really are the dogpile champs. Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets dogpiled like we do. 

Coming from the alliance that felt it necessary to dogpile on arrgh for 10 months. Yeah you sure are the dogpile champs. 

Here is a brief summary of TKR being the dogpile champ:

- Anti-Piracy war on arrgh

- Compass war (431 nations fighting 34)

- Bank Heist (91 nations fighting 6)

- The Nothinging (15 nations of CoS getting rolled by you and friends for a month)

- Sparta/Grumpy war (due to very high tiering this one isn't as bad, your side had 32 nations fighting 18)

- Radiant Crusade (another time you rolled arrgh, this time just with HBE you had 164 nations fighting 57)

- Papers Please (You fought with 880 members to 148)

- Stop Online Piracy (another time you rolled arrgh, 152 nations to 99)

There is nothing wrong with a dogpile, a large part of wars is how much you can set up to be in your favor before the conflict breaks out, and often times it does result in someone betraying someone but thats part of the politics. Don't play victim to something you consistently take part in across your entire alliance history. If anything, I would argue that you single handedly made arrgh the champs of getting dogpiled. 

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1 hour ago, Pubstomper said:

Here is a brief summary of TKR being the dogpile champ:

- Anti-Piracy war on arrgh - Nearly three years ago, was a couple round hit and then the majority of TKR went back to normal business. The rest of the "war" was just us opening Arrgh up to our newbies for raiding (much like how Arrgh has TKR open for raiding)

- Compass war (431 nations fighting 34) - almost three years ago, four day "war"

- Bank Heist (91 nations fighting 6) - three years ago, six day "war", started when - surprise - some individuals from an alliance tried to loot our ally's bank.

- The Nothinging (15 nations of CoS getting rolled by you and friends for a month) - lot of blatantly false information with this one: it was three CoS nations, not fifteen, they hit one of our nations to begin with, it was one round not one month, and they actually beiged two of our counters. Maybe you're mixing us up with another alliance they hit?

- Sparta/Grumpy war (due to very high tiering this one isn't as bad, your side had 32 nations fighting 18): six day war and one we weren't even involved in until later when a Sparta splinter hit Guardian

- Radiant Crusade (another time you rolled arrgh, this time just with HBE you had 164 nations fighting 57): three and a half years ago, we were involved for a single round in order to uphold a treaty obligation and then left.

- Papers Please (You fought with 880 members to 148) - four years ago

- Stop Online Piracy (another time you rolled arrgh, 152 nations to 99) - four years ago, 5 day "war"

This is a hilarious attempt at a spin here, as you well know that many of these cases were situational or purposeful in nature and you're deliberately overexaggerating or in some cases, outright lying. Whether accidentally or purposefully, I don't know.

Five out of your eight examples barely constitute a single round and were all provoked by a direct hit. Framing them as prolonged conflicts like you are is deliberately misstating it when in actuality, most of your examples were little more than counters on behalf of members or an ally. The remaining three are ones we took aggressive action on and, for the most part, lasted a bit longer. Every example given is nearly three or more years old.

 

 So with that, I'd like to repeat....

21 hours ago, Adrienne said:

If all your examples are like 2+ years old and 3 leaders ago though and ignore the entire history since then, can you really make that claim?

 

We "atoned" for any and everything you've listed already through Knightfall and have never even had a winning war really since so it's laughable listening to you call us the dogpile champs. If you're going to hit us then for those things and then never let us past them just because you're missing an easy villain in IQ, I think that reflects far more on you than it does us.

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9 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

 So with that, I'd like to repeat....

 

We "atoned" for any and everything you've listed already through Knightfall and have never even had a winning war really since so it's laughable listening to you call us the dogpile champs. If you're going to hit us then for those things and then never let us past them just because you're missing an easy villain in IQ, I think that reflects far more on you than it does us.

You may have "atoned" for your actions in your own minds and others but not for everyone. TKR has usually been in a powerful position with many allies and not always that easy to take down. :P

I had wanted to hit SRD (VE) since he wrecked me in Roz Wei while I was at work. I only got a sort of revenge in Knightfall when I hit some grumpy guys, but most of that war for me was guardian. I have attacked Guardian like 5 times or so and am used to it. Didn't really hit TKR for all those times I got wrecked in the past. Even if your alliance has improved greatly and is not so bad of an alliance, does not erase your history and peoples memories.

I don't think you are IQ but you are TKR and tS, alliances who have destroyed me countless times. 😕

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Sorry on mobile so harder to make things formatted well.

I do apologize for inconsistencies in the number of nations as my source for them was the wikis of those wars. And why not hold you accountable for things from 3 years ago? You have several of the same members, your culture hasn’t died, and just because leaders change doesn’t mean alliances do. People still make fun of rose for things Keegoz, Durmij, or I did and I’ve never once used time as an excuse. “Rose blitz” is a Something poked fun at endlessly, and it was for years because we choked. We have different leaders and honestly most of us that led during that blunder aren’t active but it’s still something that I think looms over roses head at every conflict. 

 

I implore you to show me 5 good examples of when you guys were dogpiled on, not including the war where most the active game was losing to NPO. Dogpiles happen in every. Single. War. And it’s not your fault that you guys historically are on a side with big numbers - your alliance is huge both in member count and score so unless you fight another really big alliance or multiple smaller ones it’s hard to be balanced out. I just hate reading the stupid bullshit trying to suggest that dogpiles are this horrible, awful thing and you’re such victims.

 

You can take a bong rip and chill a bit. I didn’t hit you or your allies for any reason other than targets sent to me. I really don’t personally care if you guys are a big sphere or not. 
 

also, happy Halloween :) 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mayor said:

You may have "atoned" for your actions in your own minds and others but not for everyone. TKR has usually been in a powerful position with many allies and not always that easy to take down. :P

You're speaking from the standpoint of an individual who has outright stated he holds a grudge for a war that happened four years ago. That's fine, you do you. I'm speaking from the standpoint of alliances, many of whose CBs during Knightfall had to do with the sort of things cited here and the leaderships of whom made it clear what the hit was for. The "atonement" came from their words, not mine. We worked with all of these alliances in some capacity or another since then and maintained good relations with a great many of them. I'm not going to apologize for not appreciating the bullshit that's being peddled this war or the dredging up of ancient grudges claimed to have been forgotten and moved past.

 

2 minutes ago, Pubstomper said:

I do apologize for inconsistencies in the number of nations as my source for them was the wikis of those wars. And why not hold you accountable for things from 3 years ago? You have several of the same members, your culture hasn’t died, and just because leaders change doesn’t mean alliances do. People still make fun of rose for things Keegoz, Durmij, or I did and I’ve never once used time as an excuse. “Rose blitz” is a Something poked fun at endlessly, and it was for years because we choked. We have different leaders and honestly most of us that led during that blunder aren’t active but it’s still something that I think looms over roses head at every conflict. 

See above. Also, making fun of and using them as justification for a war are two very different things. You guys also aren't just bringing up things from 3+ years ago. You're exclusively bringing up things from 3+ years ago and completely ignoring our entire history since because it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

4 minutes ago, Pubstomper said:

I implore you to show me 5 good examples of when you guys were dogpiled on, not including the war where most the active game was losing to NPO. Dogpiles happen in every. Single. War. And it’s not your fault that you guys historically are on a side with big numbers - your alliance is huge both in member count and score so unless you fight another really big alliance or multiple smaller ones it’s hard to be balanced out. I just hate reading the stupid bullshit trying to suggest that dogpiles are this horrible, awful thing and you’re such victims.

Show me five examples where any single alliance (besides Arrgh) was dogpiled on. If you think we're crying victim, you really haven't been reading very well. As anyone who's dealt with me personally can attest, I have very little patience for people who refuse to be straight with me. This is not "woe is me, we're being dogpiled, boo hoo" and they're all well aware of that. This is "stop pretending you needed all those nations to hit us and just own up to the fact you just wanted to hit us". End of story.

 

Happy Halloween to you too.

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You’re sitting here saying things from that long ago don’t matter to you, but they clearly matter to the people you guys wronged those years ago. I don’t know why you’re dismissing things that aren’t recent as irrelevant, the only people touting that “rule” so far is you guys, who will obviously have an affinity for stats that looks better on you guys. The irony of the fact that while we are he debating semantics of whether or not TKR has historically dogpiled people and it’s relevancy - there is a person who was rolled by TKR saying he doesn’t forgive you for it simultaneous to our exchange. So maybe it doesn’t matter to you what you guys did, but it clearly matters to them.
 

I totally get why you feel the way that you do, honestly if it was anyone else I doubt it would require this many people working together, but TKR and t$ pack a punch and have risen as the underdogs before. It’s frustrating being in a position like this. This goes back to what I mentioned in my first post here, part of war is seeing who can get the most to work on their side before the conflict happens, it appears you didn’t win that aspect of the war. Not to say you have definitively lost or won the actual war, I really don’t know how the end result will be, maybe you’ll surprise us all again. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Pubstomper said:

You’re sitting here saying things from that long ago don’t matter to you, but they clearly matter to the people you guys wronged those years ago. I don’t know why you’re dismissing things that aren’t recent as irrelevant, the only people touting that “rule” so far is you guys, who will obviously have an affinity for stats that looks better on you guys. The irony of the fact that while we are he debating semantics of whether or not TKR has historically dogpiled people and it’s relevancy - there is a person who was rolled by TKR saying he doesn’t forgive you for it simultaneous to our exchange. So maybe it doesn’t matter to you what you guys did, but it clearly matters to them.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying alliance leaders claimed these things didn't matter to them anymore and that all was forgotten when they hit us in Knightfall and that's been showcased in our shift in FA direction, our relationships over the last two years, and our cooperation together with many of the people who hit us due to those issues then. But because there's nothing juicy to pull from in the last few years, they're conveniently forgetting recent history and pulling from ancient history they claimed to be bygones.

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9 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying alliance leaders claimed these things didn't matter to them anymore and that all was forgotten when they hit us in Knightfall and that's been showcased in our shift in FA direction, our relationships over the last two years, and our cooperation together with many of the people who hit us due to those issues then. But because there's nothing juicy to pull from in the last few years, they're conveniently forgetting recent history and pulling from ancient history they claimed to be bygones.

I am not forgetting about everything in recent history and am aware of it and have never said myself my grudge is gone. Literally every time I hear war is happening I want to fight TKR and tS and GOB, and tbh TCW as well. I may like you and many people in TKR but that does not mean I automatically forget all those times in Roz Wei and Arrgh I got trashed by the biggest hegemon in the game at that time. Just happens that Rose was friendly with TKR and really anyone else fighting NPO and IQ for so long. It is strange that you think somehow since something happened so long ago that for some reason it does not matter at all.

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16 minutes ago, Mayor said:

I am not forgetting about everything in recent history and am aware of it and have never said myself my grudge is gone. Literally every time I hear war is happening I want to fight TKR and tS and GOB, and tbh TCW as well. I may like you and many people in TKR but that does not mean I automatically forget all those times in Roz Wei and Arrgh I got trashed by the biggest hegemon in the game at that time. Just happens that Rose was friendly with TKR and really anyone else fighting NPO and IQ for so long. It is strange that you think somehow since something happened so long ago that for some reason it does not matter at all.

 

1 hour ago, Adrienne said:

You're speaking from the standpoint of an individual who has outright stated he holds a grudge for a war that happened four years ago. That's fine, you do you.

 

Happy Halloween, Mayor.

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1 hour ago, Mayor said:

I am not forgetting about everything in recent history and am aware of it and have never said myself my grudge is gone. Literally every time I hear war is happening I want to fight TKR and tS and GOB, and tbh TCW as well. I may like you and many people in TKR but that does not mean I automatically forget all those times in Roz Wei and Arrgh I got trashed by the biggest hegemon in the game at that time. Just happens that Rose was friendly with TKR and really anyone else fighting NPO and IQ for so long. It is strange that you think somehow since something happened so long ago that for some reason it does not matter at all.

You are arguing in favor of Arrgh? I think I’ve seen everything now. These Pirates, thieves by any rational objective point of view, deserve what they get. If they (ie. you or any member of any rogue alliance) left allied nations alone, life might have been and continue to be more pleasant.  

Anyone who accepts membership to any alliance is responsible (by proxy) for the decisions of their leadership, other members, and subsequently the ensuing consequences. I submit that your argument, much like your logic, is flawed, and I encourage you to look to your past alliance leadership if you need to blame someone for your misfortune.

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1 hour ago, Mayor said:

I am not forgetting about everything in recent history and am aware of it and have never said myself my grudge is gone. Literally every time I hear war is happening I want to fight TKR and tS and GOB, and tbh TCW as well. I may like you and many people in TKR but that does not mean I automatically forget all those times in Roz Wei and Arrgh I got trashed by the biggest hegemon in the game at that time. Just happens that Rose was friendly with TKR and really anyone else fighting NPO and IQ for so long. It is strange that you think somehow since something happened so long ago that for some reason it does not matter at all.

I remember t$ working with roz (and arrgh) on plenty of occasions, including us protecting you briefly in the leadup to the alpha war while you were paperless. You didn't complain then.

 

And i'll note once more that arrgh's playstyle of mass raiding politically connected parties (particularly back then) inherently risked responses. Im no sure what else you all expect would happen. That you'd be thanked for consistently harassing larger alliances and be sent on your way? Arrgh got a lot of leeway in its heyday. To hold a grudge for the times it didn't is obviously your prerogative, but I think its silly.

That said, at least you're up front about it, and I can appreciate that. My issue is with others who have been peddling shit.

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6 minutes ago, Malakai said:

You are arguing in favor of Arrgh? I think I’ve seen everything now. These Pirates, thieves by any rational objective point of view, deserve what they get. If they (ie. you or any member of any rogue alliance) left allied nations alone life might be a little more pleasant.  

Anyone who accepts membership to any alliance is responsible (by proxy) for the decisions of their leadership, other members, and subsequently the ensuing consequences. I submit that your argument, much like your logic, is flawed, and I encourage you to look to your past alliance leadership if you need to blame someone for your previous misfortunes. 

I blame TKR specifically for destroying me many times in the past, I blame TKR for attacking me personally every time I rejoin Arrgh or Political Pirates, and I blame TKR for on multiple occasions making a powerful bloc that Arrgh in their wildest dreams could never really do anything but a meager raid. I raided Adrienne herself not even realizing she was milcom at the time (the only time TKR didn't completely annihilate me) and the terms of peace agreement was not to attack them again which tbqh I think I honored that agreement for a good length of time. My time in Arrgh and my raids caused many in TKR to hold a grudge against me and they kept attacking me over the years. So I really don't see the big issue. You win some and you lose some. Or in my case, lose many. Maybe I will finally get a win.

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3 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

I remember t$ working with roz (and arrgh) on plenty of occasions, including us protecting you briefly in the leadup to the alpha war while you were paperless. You didn't complain then.

 

And i'll note once more that arrgh's playstyle of mass raiding politically connected parties (particularly back then) inherently risked responses. Im no sure what else you all expect would happen. That you'd be thanked for consistently harassing larger alliances and be sent on your way? Arrgh got a lot of leeway in its heyday. To hold a grudge for the times it didn't is obviously your prerogative, but I think its silly.

That said, at least you're up front about it, and I can appreciate that. My issue is with others who have been peddling shit.

I do remember Ogadens close ties with tS, and Tywin bailed me out of a few failed raids on tS as well. And about Arrgh for sure you are right, during the Rum Wars we had a powerful military and ruthlessly raided Orbis so I deserved what I got but don't mean it's not fun to finally attack the alliances who always had their shit together and defended their people from raids. It's not like I really enjoyed attacking VE/GotG in globals when I could just do that by myself.

In the end though I do think saying you guys are a hegemony is a bit ridiculous since even though you are allied once again and both powerful this is not NPO levels of consolidation and toxicity. And tbqh with alliances like NPO and blocs like IQ it is really hard to want to attack alliances like TKR for past grudges when current political actors are far worse and more problematic.

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9 minutes ago, Mayor said:

I do remember Ogadens close ties with tS, and Tywin bailed me out of a few failed raids on tS as well. And about Arrgh for sure you are right, during the Rum Wars we had a powerful military and ruthlessly raided Orbis so I deserved what I got but don't mean it's not fun to finally attack the alliances who always had their shit together and defended their people from raids. It's not like I really enjoyed attacking VE/GotG in globals when I could just do that by myself.

In the end though I do think saying you guys are a hegemony is a bit ridiculous since even though you are allied once again and both powerful this is not NPO levels of consolidation and toxicity. And tbqh with alliances like NPO and blocs like IQ it is really hard to want to attack alliances like TKR for past grudges when current political actors are far worse and more problematic.

Aye. On a personal level I do understand why you're savoring getting one over TKR (and t$ perhaps). No issue from me there.

We're a bit miffed at the hegemon stuff being pushed as a justification for what is essentially a cynical play involving a few backstabs. Now i'm known to have made a cynical play or two of my own, so oh well on that. IQ stuff rubs us wrong though.

 

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I blame TKR specifically for destroying me many times in the past, I blame TKR for attacking me personally every time I rejoin Arrgh or Political Pirates, and I blame TKR for on multiple occasions making a powerful bloc that Arrgh in their wildest dreams could never really do anything but a meager raid.

You took what wasn’t yours and received a standard punitive retaliatory measure used throughout Orbis.  Your first infraction during your initial Arrgh membership can (and most likely has been) overlooked, but repeat offenses by your own admission diminishes your argument.
 

Quote

I raided Adrienne herself not even realizing she was milcom at the time (the only time TKR didn't completely annihilate me) and the terms of peace agreement was not to attack them again which tbqh I think I honored that agreement for a good length of time.

The ignorance of not checking your targets is a little comical, but Adrienne is well known for her mercy. The fact you rejected the terms means you were definitely not entitled to any form of leniency as you had already received and abandoned it. Your plight is self induced and your anger is misplaced. 

Quote

My time in Arrgh and my raids caused many in TKR to hold a grudge against me and they kept attacking me over the years. So I really don't see the big issue. You win some and you lose some. Or in my case, lose many. Maybe I will finally get a win.

There is more to life that sitting in the corner brooding about what may have been. Sound the horn. Sharpen the blades. Issue the orders. Perhaps if you can satisfy this blood lust so you can finally move past it and get on with your life.

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