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4 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

Because Quack used a paper-thin excuse to single out HM. Clearly, you guys were not expecting the other spheres to join in, and neither did I tbh. "Rest of the game" is *kinda* hyperbole. To be more accurate, it would probably be against other spheres.

This is what I said:

Sure, but Quack didn't declare on the entire game now, did they? There's no way its inconceivable to you guys that a hostile action against one sphere can't be seen as an attempt to weaken any future war potential against you guys later on.

 

Are you saying that a future war by multiple spheres was coming for us? Because that's why you were hit.

 

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11 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

Because Quack used a paper-thin excuse to single out HM. Clearly, you guys were not expecting the other spheres to join in, and neither did I tbh. "Rest of the game" is *kinda* hyperbole. To be more accurate, it would probably be against other spheres.

This is what I said:

Sure, but Quack didn't declare on the entire game now, did they? There's no way its inconceivable to you guys that a hostile action against one sphere can't be seen as an attempt to weaken any future war potential against you guys later on.

 

We "singled" you out by hitting you alongside a completely separate sphere? A sphere that implicated you as a paperless ally?

We were directly threatened. There's no way it's inconceivable to you guys that actively plotting against us would end up causing hostility immediately. 

Are you suggesting that you were "singled" out because the other spheres currently at war with us are equally culpable for plotting against us? ( Because that's what I'm suggesting too ;) )

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8 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

Because Quack used a paper-thin excuse to single out HM. Clearly, you guys were not expecting the other spheres to join in, and neither did I tbh. "Rest of the game" is *kinda* hyperbole. To be more accurate, it would probably be against other spheres.

This is what I said:

Sure, but Quack didn't declare on the entire game now, did they? There's no way its inconceivable to you guys that a hostile action against one sphere can't be seen as an attempt to weaken any future war potential against you guys later on.

 

And thus you expect me to believe it mere coincidence that within twenty minutes of Quack declaring war on Hedge, both Swamp and Rose had countered against Quack, like there was some degree of planning already taking place?

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1 hour ago, Arric II Vysera said:

The evidence for this is lacking. All you have are leaks from 2 people who have no affiliation with HM saying that HM is involved in their plotting against Quack. 

That's fickle. 

You were gullible enough to attack us with virtually no information aside from hearsay and your paranoia... Or your side got the perfect excuse to start a war and they don't care if the CB is fickle. Which is it? 

Regardless, there's no proof we sought this out. 

That's a nice parody of the events. The only thing that everyone knows is that there was a growing concern among the other spheres that Quack was getting too big and might use their strength against the rest of the game. Whether Quack intended to do so is a tossup. Your side however, validated everyone else's concerns when you attacked us using a crappy CB. You cannot be surprised that everyone else attacked you and blame us for conspiracy, it makes no damn sense. 

Lets see, 80% of the game was ready to roll us flat at the drop of a hat, we had intel that this was coming and even planned, we've done nothing to provoke this plot against us, but our mere audacity to build up and fight on our own terms when the intel reached us is now hilariously being spun to no end by people (Again, notably, not Swamp here, at least not publicly) that we're somehow the bad guys for doing what we were left with no choice to do.

Because we got big enough to be competitive with Swamp (maybe we have 20%-30% of the game's stats) and because, ironically, we refused to become part of a hegemonic force by merging spheres when others asked us to, now we are the hegemony?  What a riot.

The "yOu'Re a hEgEmOny" nonsense is as thin as it is laughable, but the reality is that we got big enough to be in the way of someone else's ambitions.  Justify as you must how you were strung along to set someone else up on top, because that's exactly what happened.  I've been playing these sorts of games for two decades, you don't have any damn clue what a hegemony looks like.  But you are about to find out.

12 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

And thus you expect me to believe it mere coincidence that within twenty minutes of Quack declaring war on Hedge, both Swamp and Rose had countered against Quack, like there was some degree of planning already taking place?

They don't seem to understand that secret treaties are no longer secret once they get activated.  They think they're still hiding something.  lol.

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53 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

We haven't hit anyone except UPN, who the entire game agreed deserved it.

Our relations with Swamp were amicable until recently, as were TKR's relations with rose. It sounds like you just saw an easy bandwagon to take us out.

 

You Can't pretend you didn't spend months telling Rose and Cam that you would roll them first day NAP end. 

Or that prominent Quack alliance leaders didn't openly tell Swamp that you  simply don't consider us enough of a threat to roll since Gw14

Or that Hedge wasn't responsible for this coalition yet you blitzed them in a war that would've been even more Vastly in your favor if Swamp didn't join than the war is now.

Or that if you didn't initiate the war it wouldn't have happened at all 

 

 

34 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Lets see, 80% of the game was ready to roll us flat at the drop of a hat, we had intel that this was coming and even planned, we've done nothing to provoke this plot against us, but our mere audacity to build up and fight on our own terms when the intel reached us is now hilariously being spun to no end by people (Again, notably, not Swamp here, at least not publicly) that we're somehow the bad guys for doing what we were left with no choice to do.

Because we got big enough to be competitive with Swamp (maybe we have 20%-30% of the game's stats) and because, ironically, we refused to become part of a hegemonic force by merging spheres when others asked us to, now we are the hegemony?  What a riot.

The "yOu'Re a hEgEmOny" nonsense is as thin as it is laughable, but the reality is that we got big enough to be in the way of someone else's ambitions.  Justify as you must how you were strung along to set someone else up on top, because that's exactly what happened.  I've been playing these sorts of games for two decades, you don't have any damn clue what a hegemony looks like.  But you are about to find out.

They don't seem to understand that secret treaties are no longer secret once they get activated.  They think they're still hiding something.  lol.

 

 

You aren't actually suggesting that Swamp got big before Quack right?

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9 minutes ago, Grave said:

 

You Can't pretend you didn't spend months telling Rose and Cam that you would roll them first day NAP end. 

Or that prominent Quack alliance leaders didn't openly tell Swamp that you  simply don't consider us enough of a threat to roll since Gw14

Or that Hedge wasn't responsible for this coalition yet you blitzed them in a war that would've been even more Vastly in your favor if Swamp didn't join than the war is now.

Or that if you didn't initiate the war it wouldn't have happened at all 

 

 

 

 

You aren't actually suggesting that Swamp got big before Quack right?

- Camelot was told they're shit by our gov when they had just tried to roll us out the game. After they actually put in a token of diplomacy we pretty quickly backed off and let them be. Thats been status quo for months now. You seem a bit ill informed.

- Swamp-t$ gov-gov relations were amicable. And no, we did not consider you a threat. Now you've proven you are I guess. So congrats?

- hedge, Ive already rehashed this about 20 times. I suggest you reread the thread.

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1 hour ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

Uh. We never did?

Unless you're unironically citing EUMIR of all people as your CB, in which case

 

Hey, we don't need a CB, we didn't start a war, you did. You hit us. 😛

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2 hours ago, WarriorSoul said:

How can you argue this when it's been made abundantly clear, by people on our side and yours, that we don't have the firepower to use our strength against the rest of the game at will?

The game, as it stands, has four distinct groupings between us, Hedge, Swamp, and Rose. To fear that Quack would somehow start using its strength to bully the rest of the game ignores both that we 

a) don't have the kind of ties to other spheres to start imposing ourselves like that and

b) don't possess the numbers and size to go it alone. The sheets Cooper and Smith have each shared in this thread and others make that crystal clear.

Given the broad distaste this community had for IQ and their way of playing, and our own alliance's misfortune at their hands, it seems awfully disingenuous to imply that Quack was looking to fill whatever hegemonic vacuum was left after their departure.

You fundamentally, and completely, miss and do not understand the reasons behind this.

The point is that you don't NEED those ties. You keep whining about how big swamp is, meanwhile everyone looking at the performance across all 3 spheres is probably wondering what drugs you're doing if you actually think swamp alone, in ANY CONTEXT, actually stood a 1 on 1 chance. Infact, even if you give them the benefit of their choice of Rose OR HM to attack offensively with, any observer watching that would be placing their bets based on how effectively they think Rose or HM could haul ass and carry. The fact of the matter is, nobody's concerned making a hegemony, because even swamp doesn't think they have the experience or skill.to do so, or anything close to it, let alone any talk of motivations or goals that might stop it.

Yeah, you're right, you only have the firepower to fight any two spheres alone at once with notably favorable odds of winning, or at best somewhat murky ones. It's not like literally no other sphere around is capable of that. Oh, wait, none of them are? They're either too small or too inexperienced and incapable? Weird, can't imagine what anyone's concerned over.

So, with that said, if you'd paid attention to anything at all, that he or I or anyone else but george's DoW has said, the concern was not that you would blitz and beat the whole world at once.

The concern was you'd single one sphere out, or maybe two, since we outlined above any two spheres even with the offensive advantage are looking at best at murky half and half odds (with the same consequences of losing as if you singled them out, and the same concerns) being that after that defeat the third sphere is alone to oppose you with the others under a NAP and recovering. And, since no single sphere stands an actual chance in hell, the opportunity is just sitting there.

 

THAT is the claim, THAT is the concern, THAT is the reason. Swamp, could not do that. They could not take Hedge alone, they'd take it's lower tier, and then get stalled somewhere in the upper tier, the same would occur if they attacked Rose, even with comparable numbers up top they do not have the organization or individual or even government level of skill to take that on. And even if they could take Rose and HM one after the other, they'd never be able to take Quack, they could never do what Quack would been able to have done.

 

Whether or not it would have or planned to or anything else doesn't much matter, as with this turn of events, most of the game will simply never know. The point and problem was that you could, regardless of if you would.

6 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

"You didn't let us pull off the massive offensive we were striving for, so we must be completely innocent. :p"

 

I'll have you know I am completely innocent, you vile villains interrupted my growth circle. Who does that. I would've been c30 in a week or two.

But nooooo, paranoid homeless dude with a sign said something, better go ruin akuryo's ascension party into whaledom. 

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17 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

You fundamentally, and completely, miss and do not understand the reasons behind this.

The point is that you don't NEED those ties. You keep whining about how big swamp is, meanwhile everyone looking at the performance across all 3 spheres is probably wondering what drugs you're doing if you actually think swamp alone, in ANY CONTEXT, actually stood a 1 on 1 chance. Infact, even if you give them the benefit of their choice of Rose OR HM to attack offensively with, any observer watching that would be placing their bets based on how effectively they think Rose or HM could haul ass and carry. The fact of the matter is, nobody's concerned making a hegemony, because even swamp doesn't think they have the experience or skill.to do so, or anything close to it, let alone any talk of motivations or goals that might stop it.

Yeah, you're right, you only have the firepower to fight any two spheres alone at once with notably favorable odds of winning, or at best somewhat murky ones. It's not like literally no other sphere around is capable of that. Oh, wait, none of them are? They're either too small or too inexperienced and incapable? Weird, can't imagine what anyone's concerned over.

So, with that said, if you'd paid attention to anything at all, that he or I or anyone else but george's DoW has said, the concern was not that you would blitz and beat the whole world at once.

The concern was you'd single one sphere out, or maybe two, since we outlined above any two spheres even with the offensive advantage are looking at best at murky half and half odds (with the same consequences of losing as if you singled them out, and the same concerns) being that after that defeat the third sphere is alone to oppose you with the others under a NAP and recovering. And, since no single sphere stands an actual chance in hell, the opportunity is just sitting there.

 

THAT is the claim, THAT is the concern, THAT is the reason. Swamp, could not do that. They could not take Hedge alone, they'd take it's lower tier, and then get stalled somewhere in the upper tier, the same would occur if they attacked Rose, even with comparable numbers up top they do not have the organization or individual or even government level of skill to take that on. And even if they could take Rose and HM one after the other, they'd never be able to take Quack, they could never do what Quack would been able to have done.

 

Whether or not it would have or planned to or anything else doesn't much matter, as with this turn of events, most of the game will simply never know. The point and problem was that you could, regardless of if you would.

I'll have you know I am completely innocent, you vile villains interrupted my growth circle. Who does that. I would've been c30 in a week or two.

But nooooo, paranoid homeless dude with a sign said something, better go ruin akuryo's ascension party into whaledom. 

We didnt single a sphere out. We hit you *and* TCW. Be no measure would this have been us dogpiling 1 sphere. And even then, you were competitive in your core tier because you've hoarded half the whales. ;)

 

As or the rest: "You performed better than another party with the same resources, so you're obviously OP!"


just lol.

 

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39 minutes ago, Grave said:

You Can't pretend you didn't spend months telling Rose and Cam that you would roll them first day NAP end. 

Hi, I can confirm that TKR had direct and very open lines of communication with Rose during all preceding events since NPOLT.  We made it quite clear that Quack never had any intention of hitting them on several occasions.  For even very little things that Rose had concerns about, we always gave them our assurances and offered transparency.  This was a non-issue.  

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17 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

I'll have you know I am completely innocent, you vile villains interrupted my growth circle. Who does that. I would've been c30 in a week or two.

But nooooo, paranoid homeless dude with a sign said something, better go ruin akuryo's ascension party into whaledom. 

Yeah, now it's gonna take a while to catch up to you in city count and my damn meatloaf went cold that night, I hope they're all happy.

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Hedge: I can't believe Quack preempted us because we were planning to hit them!!! That's illegal right????

 

Perhaps don't plan to roll someone if you are going to cry about getting preempted. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Grave said:

You aren't actually suggesting that Swamp got big before Quack right?

Here's the actual suggestion: When Quack rejected your offer to merge and become the new hegemony, our existence instead became an obstacle to your ambitions, and you went off and formed Swamp and this whole little plot to take what you felt you deserved.  You sold fear to smaller blocs, projecting onto us your own desires and ambitions, and strung them along for this war.

How's that?

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1 hour ago, WarriorSoul said:

And thus you expect me to believe it mere coincidence that within twenty minutes of Quack declaring war on Hedge, both Swamp and Rose had countered against Quack, like there was some degree of planning already taking place?

I know!   It's almost like Quack gov asked Swamp before hand to step aside and allow quack to roll tCW along with Hedge!   What an absurd response to have to such an inquiry!

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21 minutes ago, Dr James Wilson said:

I know!   It's almost like Quack gov asked Swamp before hand to step aside and allow quack to roll tCW along with Hedge!   What an absurd response to have to such an inquiry!

Shrug. Burn that bridge buddy. Burn it real good.

 

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There has to be more to Quacks CB than Sphinx logs... I mean the guy plots 30 schemes a day and only a third of them are aimed at Quack. The only reason any sphere has only 4 or 5 plots against them now is because Sphinx is in vacation mode. At least there is something happening tho.

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2 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Shrug. Burn that bridge buddy. Burn it real good.

I didn't realize stating the obvious was burning a bridge.   Then again, I am just a ramblin man...

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3 minutes ago, Dr James Wilson said:

I didn't realize stating the obvious was burning a bridge.   Then again, I am just a ramblin man...

I think swamp's movements have definitely impacted what was a pretty okay working relationship. But then, anything to shear off a party that is "growing too fast", right? ;)

Quite a few backroom deals you had there.

 

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1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

- Camelot was told they're shit by our gov when they had just tried to roll us out the game. After they actually put in a token of diplomacy we pretty quickly backed off and let them be. Thats been status quo for months now. You seem a bit ill informed.

- Swamp-t$ gov-gov relations were amicable. And no, we did not consider you a threat. Now you've proven you are I guess. So congrats?

- hedge, Ive already rehashed this about 20 times. I suggest you reread the thread.

 

 

My point being if you didn't make every other bloc feel threatened at one point you'd probably have gotten away with rolling one bloc like you originally planned 

59 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

Hi, I can confirm that TKR had direct and very open lines of communication with Rose during all preceding events since NPOLT.  We made it quite clear that Quack never had any intention of hitting them on several occasions.  For even very little things that Rose had concerns about, we always gave them our assurances and offered transparency.  This was a non-issue.  

Telling people you aren't going to hit them while others are also saying you are going to hit them doesn't make them feel reassured honestly 

 

for example quack  knew about the coalition yet reassured Swamp you wouldn't hit us, what would have happened if Swamp sat out, you would have stuck to your word, just hit hedge and let the bloc actually mentioned in your leaks goes free?? Not a chance 

46 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Here's the actual suggestion: When Quack rejected your offer to merge and become the new hegemony, our existence instead became an obstacle to your ambitions, and you went off and formed Swamp and this whole little plot to take what you felt you deserved.  You sold fear to smaller blocs, projecting onto us your own desires and ambitions, and strung them along for this war.

How's that?

Changing the past to support your narrative now? 

TI-TKR-T$ was made to prepare for the very real threat of IQ winning GW14 and was ended on mutual interest. Ever since then Swamp has attempted to chase after your rapid growth so we could even remotely be in a position to challenge you ourselves if you tried to become a hegemony, and the rapid rate of which it became more and more inconceivable was noticed by everyone and acted upon. 

If even one bloc got rolled out of the game by you it would be too late for the rest combined to stop you by the time we noticed you were even trying and that's another problem entirely. 

You could pick and choose and bloc in the game to dissappear and it wouldn't turn Swamp into a hegemony, you pick any bloc except Quack itself and it would be.

 

I think we are at an impasse on this ultimately, see you in our defensive wars 😉 

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2 minutes ago, Grave said:

 Ever since then Swamp has attempted to chase after your rapid growth so we could even remotely be in a position to challenge you ourselves if you tried to become a hegemony, and the rapid rate of which it became more and more inconceivable was been noticed by everyone and acted upon.

Bro you went to war with Arrgh and bled 30b, I finally understand why you guys were claiming it was war experience. More experience dogpilling.

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2 minutes ago, Grave said:

Changing the past to support your narrative now? 

TI-TKR-T$ was made to prepare for the very real threat of IQ winning GW14 and was ended on mutual interest. Ever since then Swamp has attempted to chase after your rapid growth so we could even remotely be in a position to challenge you ourselves if you tried to become a hegemony, and the rapid rate of which it became more and more inconceivable was been noticed by everyone and acted upon. 

If even one bloc got rolled out of the game by you it would be too late for the rest combined to stop you by the time we noticed you were even trying and that's another problem entirely. 

You could pick and choose and bloc in the game to dissappear and it wouldn't turn Swamp into a hegemony, you pick any except Quack and you would be.

 

I think we are at an impasse on this ultimately, see you in our defensive wars 😉 

Nobody believes this bub.  You don't, we don't, and I doubt any uninvolved parties, if there are even any left, are buying it.  We're like 20% of the game.  A hegemony is not 20%.  You want to make your big play to take over the game?  Fine, but at least be a man enough to own up to it.  I've been under the jackboots of people far, far scarier than you lot.  I'm ready.

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