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5 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Who said you guys were trying to roll them out of the game?  I haven't seen that accusation.  I've mostly seen them concerned of the tiering, pretty much.  Which is par for the course on a good chunk of wars in this game's history.  Like I've stated, it seemed this war was mostly for containment purposes.

But with the way how some leaders are talking on both sides, I was suspecting that there may have been more to this than what's on the surface.

If by more than what's on the surface, you mean a longer running plot to conduct a gamewide containment war that got pre-empted by quack, and that was swept under the rug.

Until it wasn't.

 

...Yeah.... it's interesting times ahead. :P

 

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25 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Who said you guys were trying to roll them out of the game?  I haven't seen that accusation.  I've mostly seen them concerned of the tiering, pretty much.  Which is par for the course on a good chunk of wars in this game's history.  Like I've stated, it seemed this war was mostly for containment purposes.

But with the way how some leaders are talking on both sides, I was suspecting that there may have been more to this than what's on the surface.

It was a lot louder when they were still shouting "hegemony" from the rooftops to pretend they were the good guys in this.  There were a few baseless accusations that we were going to do IQ stuff and "roll people out of the game" but I can't be assed to dig them up.  Whole thing is a farce, and the world ain't gonna be pretty on the other side.

Worst Poster Ever (2011)
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6 minutes ago, Batavus said:

Hi @Harry Flashman, @Lord Tyrion,
I don't think it's a secret I've been close to alliances in Swamp for years. I gave GodFury (precursor to TLE) a protectorate, worked on my coalition not rolling TFP (Knightfall), helped the Federation get a protectorate with TFP and Alexio's Frontier Records after the Nova Riata merger turned into a disaster and worked with Alexio several times. I've complimented those of you (Immortals, TFP, Fark) who stayed in the war, when numbers and moral support mattered and others fought alongside IQ or dropped out the war against IQ within days after entry. The appreciation for that stands.

Given our ties and the rumors building up I've been pretty quiet on the Forums and sought you guys out in DMs. Your words have been pretty clear: we had no plans to hit Quack. It's annoying and a shame the case that Swamp has approached other spheres about dealing with Quack, has just been building.

I'm not going to rehash it all here. After months of regular remarks by several players on the OWF, Immortals FA James most clearly voiced his opposition on the radio about Quacksphere being waaaaay to large and scary. After a friendly convo in DMs I tried a "Let me know if your concerns develop into something more than that... or if you simply feel like a chat XD" but apparently to no avail. By incorporating TCW Swamp has grown to give-or-take the same size as Quack. I'm looking forward to a radio show on that and let's drop the "maybe TCW or other alliances will be cut when we re-evaluate" - TCW is Swamp now, obviously. And with TCW you embraced an alliance with plans to hit Quack.

I have to hand it to SRD: he doesn't owe us anything and I'd understand it if he held some grudges against t$, but at least he mentioned (it was presented to him that) Swamp approached HM about hitting Swamp. You can't just say maybe "
I'm out of the loop with my sphere but you just prove it" . Can't you Ask Alexio (part 2) instead? Why should we? We can't ignore HM putting this out there.

I get it when one of the two largest spheres wants to take out the competition and prepares for that. It's P&W, not Politics & Kumbaya. I also know at times sphere leaders have middlemen. That old ties and fresh assurances get forgotten in the process is... annoying. That a Duckpile was deemed necessary is a shame. But at least own up to Swamp discussing an attack on Quack with HM so we can all move on. I promise I won't call your sphere IQ. Yet 😉

Batavia, you are one of the best FA people in the game and one of the reasons I've held T$ in high regard, I appreciate you a lot.  I have zero way to prove a conversation didn't happen though.  If there were those discussions it was without my knowledge or direction, nor through a middleman or anything else.  Did someone from Swamp, maybe gov, maybe Sphinx, maybe just a member, etc, say something to someone in HM?  Sure, it's possible.  Just as it's possible people in Quack could have been doing the same towards us.  I would own it if it happened - you can believe that or not, but I would.  I'm just as interested as you to know who those supposed plotters were against Quack.  I'd invite you into my DMs whenever and I could walk you through everything that happened from our mindset since Swamp inception towards Quack.  I've shared above how we had some concerns about Quack in the long-term future potentially coming for us and made defensive arrangements to mitigate those risks from becoming a reality.  But our preference would have been to avoid this conflict, although in hindsight it's looking like it was likely unavoidable given the trajectories of our spheres.  And although your side may feel we were similar sized in adding TCW, when we looked at our sheets at the time, Quack was like 3.2M score and Swamp was like 1.7M and adding TCW we were still like 1M score less roughly.  (That's not to say we weren't getting too large ourselves with their inclusion)  And although we knew Sphinx was concerned about Quack (as were we as I just mentioned), he had no influence in our FA policies and direction, so he wasn't going to be building any coalition without our support.  When Swamp leadership discussed how to mitigate this risk with Quack, it was overwhelmingly decided defensive-only, nothing offensive in regards to Quack, and that remained until right before the war. 

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8 hours ago, Hodor said:

That's literally the good it does. I don't think HM, Swamp, or Rose's worldviews are fixed. They are stubborn twats just like you all, but seems that leadership in this game selects for that. (this sounded funnier in my head, I think its funny, don't be offended)

Hmm, usually people have to get to know me before calling me that. I must be getting worse ;)

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16 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

As they say, the truth will set you free.  I'm been completely honest in my responses here.  If I'm out of the loop with my sphere then show me the logs and I'll eat humble pie (and ream whoever was going behind our backs).

I dont think I ever had the pleasure of chatting with you when I played, but you really do remind me a lot of myself the 2nd time I had the misfortune of running an alliance in this game =/

Truth wont get many people on your side in this game, it cost me a lot of lost opportunity learning that lesson as well.

I completely forgot my forum name on here, and had to search for a post that I had made, and this was the one I found, and it seems you have found yourself in a similar position that I once did =/. I didnt do very well, even with screenshots leaked to me that proved my point...and I didn't have the misfortune to have my opposition be Partisan either. He's probably the smartest person in game atm, and you seem inexperienced at this type of thing, even if you state truths he will frame things in ways that will have your honest answers weaken your position and maybe even splinter your side. The best you can do is just state your reasons and stay off the OWF, some fights you cant win, and trying to do will make things worse =/.

It also cant hurt to talk with your coalition mates before you make an official stance

You seem like a genuinely decent person, something I rarely get to say about PnW leaders, and for what its worth, I hope you do well. GL

13 hours ago, Batavus said:

Hi @Harry Flashman, @Lord Tyrion, @Richard Payne III,
worked on my coalition not rolling TFP (Knightfall),

😉

 

Now this is the hot steaming pile of bullshit that got me to spend 30 minutes figuring out my user name so I could get my password and make a post.

You had no meaningful role in that.

For those who care about things long past: It was a decision that was hashed out between Kaiser and myself, when I came to him for advice when BK came to me with the idea. Pantheon had 70 people on deck for a blitz at anytime, and a good war showing was what we needed for FA, and that was the only chance we could get it this war, but it was just too evil of a move for me to stomach though, and I ended up passing up a good FA opportunity over it. I'm not sure if ive ever been strong at FA, but that isnt one of the moves I regret making


Now, Tyrion needs to learn to be a better judge of character if he was earnest in his assessment of you. Ive seen you lie about shit more times then I can count, Ive seen you flip out and go full retard over minor shit, ive seen the the shitty internal politics you play for power, and that drove away an actually competent gov member. By all common moral standards, you are a piece of shit. I cant even say you make that up by being good at FA either, when you are put under pressure, you crack hard, and when you have the feeling of power, you cant think clearly and do stupid and cruel things. You RP NPD here well


It's a bit ironic of me to lecture Tyion on truth not being of much value, and then just go hard on the truth when I know it's presented in such a manner that will change no minds LOL. There is value to me just having some things be said, I think I can add that to my list of flaws that kept me from being good at this sort of FA heh

Edited by The God Emperor of Mankind
Forgot to add in one part
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1 hour ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

I dont think I ever had the pleasure of chatting with you when I played, but you really do remind me a lot of myself the 2nd time I had the misfortune of running an alliance in this game =/

You didn't lead anything, you're quick to shoot down Batavia when he was the only thing holding your re-run pantheon together after you scared away your high government.

1 hour ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

I completely forgot my forum name on here, and had to search for a post that I had made, and this was the one I found, and it seems you have found yourself in a similar position that I once did =/. I didnt do very well, even with screenshots leaked to me that proved my point...and I didn't have the misfortune to have my opposition be Partisan either. He's probably the smartest person in game atm, and you seem inexperienced at this type of thing, even if you state truths he will frame things in ways that will have your honest answers weaken your position and maybe even splinter your side. The best you can do is just state your reasons and stay off the OWF, some fights you cant win, and trying to do will make things worse =/.

Phewee, defeatism 

1 hour ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

Now this is the hot steaming pile of bullshit that got me to spend 30 minutes figuring out my user name so I could get my password and make a post.

You had no meaningful role in that.

For those who care about things long past: It was a decision that was hashed out between Kaiser and myself, when I came to him for advice when BK came to me with the idea. Pantheon had 70 people on deck for a blitz at anytime, and a good war showing was what we needed for FA, and that was the only chance we could get it this war, but it was just too evil of a move for me to stomach though, and I ended up passing up a good FA opportunity over it. I'm not sure if ive ever been strong at FA, but that isnt one of the moves I regret making

Pray tell, who did have a meaningful role in this scenario? Couldn't have been you, your activity was spottier than somebody diagnosed with leukaemia and there was nobody else in high government that could've picked up that slack. Also to be honest, pantheon at the time probably would have needed that war, not much was going for us FA wise.

 

2 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

Now, Tyrion needs to learn to be a better judge of character if he was earnest in his assessment of you. Ive seen you lie about shit more times then I can count, Ive seen you flip out and go full retard over minor shit, ive seen the the shitty internal politics you play for power, and that drove away an actually competent gov member. By all common moral standards, you are a piece of shit. I cant even say you make that up by being good at FA either, when you are put under pressure, you crack hard, and when you have the feeling of power, you cant think clearly and do stupid and cruel things. You RP NPD here well

Curious, which 'competent' gov member are we talking about? Many were driven away for various reasons.

None of them were due to Batavia as far as I am aware. Do you personally blame him for what happened to Pantheon, or something? If so, you only have your own leadership decisions to blame.

 

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3 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

Truth wont get many people on your side in this game, it cost me a lot of lost opportunity learning that lesson as well.

That is technically true. However, it is not at all an accurate or fair statement to make.

Truth alone will indeed not get many people on your side, but truth and honesty is still a lot of what it takes, and is absolutely an indispensable part of it. Honesty alone won't get people on your side... but dishonesty is guaranteed to set your allies against you and drop whatever reputation you have or might try to cultivate straight into the toilet.

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4 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

Truth wont get many people on your side in this game, it cost me a lot of lost opportunity learning that lesson as well.

For those who care about things long past: It was a decision that was hashed out between Kaiser and myself, when I came to him for advice when BK came to me with the idea. Pantheon had 70 people on deck for a blitz at anytime, and a good war showing was what we needed for FA, and that was the only chance we could get it this war, but it was just too evil of a move for me to stomach though, and I ended up passing up a good FA opportunity over it. I'm not sure if ive ever been strong at FA, but that isnt one of the moves I regret making

I don't know you well enough to make any real judgements, but I can understand wanting to speak the truth.  I've based my FA style off of the principles of being honest and honourable, and I disagree that you can't do FA and stick to your guts (or even a raging idealist in my case).  I've also dealt with Batavia enough as my direct ally and still have never experienced what you suggest.  

That said, I'm a bit skeptical about your claims with regards to Pantheon's decision-making.  I'd contest it based on your actions that war with regards to our protectorate, Nova Riata.  Am I happy that you didn't decide to take advantage of TFP?  Sure, but I don't think you deserve brownie points for the doing the right thing, especially with the context of you clearly doing the wrong thing with Nova in that same war.  Consistency in principle is the only way any set of morals can be exercised in this game.

And bringing this back into the context at the moment, it's been clear that multiple parties have acted duplicitously.  We were lied to, and it we're seems still being lied to.  The point here is to determine the truth by giving people basic logical standards to uphold their words.  There should be consistency in the things you say and it should accord with what others say for it to be true.  Clearly, someone has to not be telling the truth based on the evidence in this thread.  

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5 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

Now this is the hot steaming pile of bullshit that got me to spend 30 minutes figuring out my user name so I could get my password and make a post.

You had no meaningful role in that. (...) Ive seen you lie about shit (...) full retard over minor shit (...)  By all common moral standards, you are a piece of shit. (...) shit (...).

I had forgotten how much you can curse at times - never really liked that. Nor do I like your ancient grudges. Not exactly sure why in my case, as I helped maintain your alliance for 8 months as your right hand man for FA and whatever else needed to be done, while one player after the next fled your chaos, fury and vengeful nature. Until I was kicked from the aa at night and a 60 or so day old nation was asked to lead Pantheon. Until he became inactive after 6 weeks or so and coups and more trouble followed. Either way, nice to have made many friends back in the days: at our protectorates, former government and protector t$. In your case I hope you find peace in life and stay in retirement. As for "you had no meaningful role in that". Our ancient convos disagree.

I suggested I'd approach TFP. I spoke with them. Explained they didn't want to fight.
You were trigger happy and didn't trust it. "They are going in". I explained it would be madness for them to go in. You told me a treaty tied their hands. I explained there are no game mechanics forcing an aa to follow up on a treaty. I said they weren't going in. You said they might be waiting for a few days. This besides what I discussed with you in other channels back than. I held us back because TFP was signalling they didn't want to go in.
 

Approaching TFP.png

Approaching TFP2.png

But a MDP could tie their hands.png

Check with TFP.png

Is TFP waiting to go in.png

TFP doesn't want to fight.png

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1 hour ago, Lord Vader said:

Do I sense a second liar? Batavia has pulled out the screenies, can't argue with those.

Fist is just old and senile now, a relic of the past. Please don't judge him too hard on this - we call them senior moments. I'm not sure how his handlers managed to let him escape the retirement home but I'm sure he is safely back at home watching re-runs of the Golden Girls or M*A*S*H and spoon feeding him his rice pudding.

Love you Fist! 💚

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8 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

I dont think I ever had the pleasure of chatting with you when I played, but you really do remind me a lot of myself the 2nd time I had the misfortune of running an alliance in this game =/

Truth wont get many people on your side in this game, it cost me a lot of lost opportunity learning that lesson as well.

I completely forgot my forum name on here, and had to search for a post that I had made, and this was the one I found, and it seems you have found yourself in a similar position that I once did =/. I didnt do very well, even with screenshots leaked to me that proved my point...and I didn't have the misfortune to have my opposition be Partisan either. He's probably the smartest person in game atm, and you seem inexperienced at this type of thing, even if you state truths he will frame things in ways that will have your honest answers weaken your position and maybe even splinter your side. The best you can do is just state your reasons and stay off the OWF, some fights you cant win, and trying to do will make things worse =/.

It also cant hurt to talk with your coalition mates before you make an official stance

You seem like a genuinely decent person, something I rarely get to say about PnW leaders, and for what its worth, I hope you do well. GL

 

Now this is the hot steaming pile of bullshit that got me to spend 30 minutes figuring out my user name so I could get my password and make a post.

You had no meaningful role in that.

For those who care about things long past: It was a decision that was hashed out between Kaiser and myself, when I came to him for advice when BK came to me with the idea. Pantheon had 70 people on deck for a blitz at anytime, and a good war showing was what we needed for FA, and that was the only chance we could get it this war, but it was just too evil of a move for me to stomach though, and I ended up passing up a good FA opportunity over it. I'm not sure if ive ever been strong at FA, but that isnt one of the moves I regret making


Now, Tyrion needs to learn to be a better judge of character if he was earnest in his assessment of you. Ive seen you lie about shit more times then I can count, Ive seen you flip out and go full retard over minor shit, ive seen the the shitty internal politics you play for power, and that drove away an actually competent gov member. By all common moral standards, you are a piece of shit. I cant even say you make that up by being good at FA either, when you are put under pressure, you crack hard, and when you have the feeling of power, you cant think clearly and do stupid and cruel things. You RP NPD here well


It's a bit ironic of me to lecture Tyion on truth not being of much value, and then just go hard on the truth when I know it's presented in such a manner that will change no minds LOL. There is value to me just having some things be said, I think I can add that to my list of flaws that kept me from being good at this sort of FA heh

While I thank you for the vote of confidence, I merely highlight inconsistencies, half truths and outright lies.

 

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21 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

although your side may feel we were similar sized in adding TCW, when we looked at our sheets at the time, Quack was like 3.2M score and Swamp was like 1.7M and adding TCW we were still like 1M score less roughly.  (That's not to say we weren't getting too large ourselves with their inclusion)  And although we knew Sphinx was concerned about Quack (as were we as I just mentioned)

While you cite those numbers to prove how big and intimidating Quack had become, let me remind you just a month ago your 600+ nations bloc had declared war against 50 people. 😛

Edited by Sam Cooper
......

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6 minutes ago, Sam Cooper said:

While you cite those numbers to prove how big and intimidating Quack had become, let me remind you just a month ago your 600+ nations bloc had declared war against 50 people. 😛

If you're referring to Arrgh, we didn't declare war.  Nobody actually seeks going to war with Arrgh.  Arrgh started that conflict by mass raiding our folks and there were RoH and it's never gone beyond that.  Not sure what your point is here.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Tyrion said:

If you're referring to Arrgh, we didn't declare war.  Nobody actually seeks going to war with Arrgh.  Arrgh started that conflict by mass raiding our folks and there were RoH and it's never gone beyond that.  Not sure what your point is here.

Not Ending Piracy Should I be offended? Smh

Peace in our time

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2 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

If you're referring to Arrgh, we didn't declare war.  Nobody actually seeks going to war with Arrgh.  Arrgh started that conflict by mass raiding our folks and there were RoH and it's never gone beyond that.  Not sure what your point is here.

And yet, mayor was calling TKR out for "dogpiles" referencing fights with arrgh in the same fashion. I didn't hear you swamp gentlemen contest *that* assertion.

3 hours ago, Pasky Darkfire said:

This thread is only at 17 pages? I expected more walls of text than this!

PlushUnrulyKoalabear-size_restricted.gif

Hi. You're fighting a war in defense of KT.

 

Thrilling, isn't it?

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