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54 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

I heard 3 hours myself. Anyway, it's basically everyone's word but Sphinx, and Sphinx isn't here to question, so yeah. The closest you guys have to someone who said that there was an attack planned against Quack who is still around may be Ronny, and even he believed that this plan died long before the war happened. When you factor in the fact that he didn't even talk to Swamp himself, but instead was -told- that there had been communication with Swamp by another HM leader, and when you look at that conversation log and see that it is even more ambiguous than Ronny's statements, well, perhaps time to re evaluate what you guys think you know? Up to you guys ofcourse.

Literally 3 guys from the same alliance (Rose) but a different sphere on me within 15 minutes of my first declaration. Whoever told you a few hours is lying

image.thumb.png.ba5642b75e6d7012fdfcc8af22fb17b8.png

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1 hour ago, Phoenyx said:

I heard 3 hours myself.

I'm getting the distinct impression you only hear what you wish to hear.

You're entitled to your own opinion.
You're not entitled to your own facts.

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<~Sval[OWR]> I am your father.
<+Curufinwe> Can confirm

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The likelyhood of Sphinx coming to the forums is slim to none just so people are aware. As I stated in my own post about government changes for TCW his real life has become hectic enough to completely overshadow pw. (He doesn't even visit us on discord) Any and all questions can be passed though me, or be directed towards Putmir or Purplemoon. 

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1 hour ago, Phoenyx said:

I heard 3 hours myself. Anyway, it's basically everyone's word but Sphinx, and Sphinx isn't here to question, so yeah. The closest you guys have to someone who said that there was an attack planned against Quack who is still around may be Ronny, and even he believed that this plan died long before the war happened. When you factor in the fact that he didn't even talk to Swamp himself, but instead was -told- that there had been communication with Swamp by another HM leader, and when you look at that conversation log and see that it is even more ambiguous than Ronny's statements, well, perhaps time to re evaluate what you guys think you know? Up to you guys ofcourse.

did swamp tell you 3 hours? cause you’re quite delusional if you really believe that.

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1 hour ago, Salvarity said:

Literally 3 guys from the same alliance (Rose) but a different sphere on me within 15 minutes of my first declaration. Whoever told you a few hours is lying

image.thumb.png.ba5642b75e6d7012fdfcc8af22fb17b8.png

 

I can't remember who said it. Anyway, maybe they're just quick on the draw. I'll tell you something- I am a believe a lot of conspiracy theories. But it's just too much for a -game-. I've been thinking about it all- technically, all that would be needed is Sphinx. Sphinx talking to the HM leader who told Ronny about a plan to counter Quack and then when some momentum got going on that front of a defensive variety, Sphinx thinking that by December, he could turn it around into an -offensive- Coalition and selling it as a fait accomplit. Occam's razor. 

1 hour ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

No, it was objectively 5 minutes as a matter of both fact and public record. That's just a plain fact, stop being disingenuous.

I thought I heard hours, but perhaps I was getting confused with what Ronny said below, on page 13 of this thread: 

  

On 11/2/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Last week Quack militarized out of the blue, so we militarized and started talking to the other blocs, because we didn't know what they were doing or who they were planning to hit. Swamp and HM basically agreed that if one of us gets hit, we will help the other one because we cant let the strongest bloc in the game start steamrolling the smaller blocs, and we were waiting to see if Rose would also agree.  From what I understand Rose didn't jump on the bandwagon till a few hours before you guys attacked on Friday.  If we were all on board from the get go, we wouldn't have spend the 2 hours before you attacked frantically trying to decide how we wanted to handle you guys.   If we had all actually been working together, we would have had target lists together, and hit you first.

...

So TLDR, I would love to see all these logs, because your version of what is happening is not the same as what I have seen, and I have talked to some other alliance leaders, and they also dont know what you have been talking about.

 

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1 hour ago, Jeric said:

The likelyhood of Sphinx coming to the forums is slim to none just so people are aware. As I stated in my own post about government changes for TCW his real life has become hectic enough to completely overshadow pw. (He doesn't even visit us on discord) Any and all questions can be passed though me, or be directed towards Putmir or Purplemoon. 

That would really be great. I think we'd all like to know if he could provide any evidence for his assertion that Swamp, Hedge and others were going to attack Quack by the beginning of December. I imagine someone can pull up the log as to his exact words. 

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1 hour ago, Phoenyx said:

That would really be great. I think we'd all like to know if he could provide any evidence for his assertion that Swamp, Hedge and others were going to attack Quack by the beginning of December. I imagine someone can pull up the log as to his exact words. 

That means you won't see him on the forums... And if there is any said logs they would be on his discord that noone in the alliance has access to. 

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11 minutes ago, Jeric said:

That means you won't see him on the forums... And if there is any said logs they would be on his discord that noone in the alliance has access to. 

What I meant was, could you ask him if he could try to send us those logs?

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7 minutes ago, Thalmor said:

I'm under the impression all relevant people in our coalition have long since taken diplomatic talks to DMs. They are far smarter and more experienced than you (and me) and are best suited to be doing whatever you think you're trying to do.

You're some random dude (not even in gov I think?) in an alliance that is a protectorate of one alliance on our side. It's not your place to try to use facts and logic™️ to make our enemy surrender or whatever. You should stop trying and just focus on fighting. 

Obviously you're free to do what you want, but you're embarrassing yourself and making yourself look like a fool. You've leaked things said in DMs, claimed that the counters from Rose happened after 3 hours whereas in reality it was minutes, and then when backed against the wall said 'plz lets take this to PMs plz plz.' 

You're new, I get wanting to be helpful and all, and it is a good mental exercise. However, you'll learn more and do it easier by just quietly observing than by doing. You got 2 ears to listen and 1 mouth to speak and all that. 

Now give it a rest, buddy. Message me on Discord if you want and we can talk. I'm writing a 50,000 word analysis on the themes within The Sopranos. We can talk about that, or our favorite vore hentai mangas. Whichever man. 

 

I think part of the problem when it comes to wars is that we always leave it up to the "experts" to figure it all out because surely the rest of us just aren't smart enough. Now, I will certainly acknowledge that I came in here with very little knowledge of the war, but I think I've learned a fair amount in my short time here and I am hoping to learn more.

 

Based on everything that I have read here, I think there is a -lot- of misunderstandings on both sides and while I certainly think that it is good that the various faction diplomats do their thing quietly behind closed doors, I also think there is definitely some room to have a little public discussion on it. It may actually help that I haven't been around too long, as it means that I am not starting with a whole lot of preconceived notions as to what is and isn't true. To quote from Mark Twain, "It's not what we don't know that gives us trouble. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so."

 

Reading further into your post, I find some things rather funny- "facts and logic (tm)". Sometimes, it really does feel like the various Alliance heads have branded what is true and what isn't and those on the bottom rungs should just follow along like good little sheep. Well, this little sheep has gone rogue -.- I'll still fight like a good little sheep within reason, but I'll be talking with my fellow sheep that I don't trust the higher ups to do what's right for us. One of the things I find kind of funny is that I'm kind of in to certain conspiracy theories, but when it comes to the different sides here, it seems that -everyone- thinks that the other side is conspiring behind their backs and I'm one of the few that's just saying, "I'm 99.99% certain that all this was was a "failure to communicate"".

 

Anyway, I don't agree with a few other assertions you've made, but I think for the sake of brevity, I'll leave it like that. I'll also message you on Discord because I'm definitely feeling like the time to talk about these things here may be coming to an end for the forseeable future. 

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49 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

What I meant was, could you ask him if he could try to send us those logs?

Like I said. Hes not active, nor does he log into discord. Last message we have from him was the day he stepped down from PM. Hes currently working on his degree in college which is far more important than logging in and sharing "logs" I'm not sure how many times I need to repeat this same thing... 

Any and all questions can be dmed to me on discord, or to Putmir or Purplemoon. 

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1 hour ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

image.png.bdf6a0ea99fe4d784cbcff10735ea210.png

Your point? It's probably open on his laptop while he's playing. go ahead and dm him. He probably won't answer

And Sphinx does play games with his friends so he probably only has one discord account... I know he does among us, and such

1 hour ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

 

Edited by Jeric
Double quote won't let me delete
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2 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

I think part of the problem when it comes to wars is that we always leave it up to the "experts" to figure it all out because surely the rest of us just aren't smart enough.

It isn't a matter of 'smart'. The 'experts' have at least three things that you most assuredly do not have: Authority, experience, and credibility.

You don't have any authority. That is a simple enough fact.

As for experience, unless you're a reroll (and you may well be for all we know), you haven't even been playing long enough to have fought in even a single world war let alone the most important and substantial political reshuffles this game has ever seen. If you're not even familiar with the most recent foundations of modern politics, then why even try to penetrate grudges and baggage almost a decade old?

Now, you may well have experience from other games, but the majority of existing games have fundamentally different enough mechanics that any experience simply doesn't carry over. You've said as much yourself: that one of the games you've played well recently is one that resets once a winner emerges. That kind of mechanic lends itself to a vastly different culture and set of political maneuvers. Attempting to apply those to this game absolutely would, and has, resulted in awful problems for those that try. Ask what happened to NPO, that'll give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

I'm not even gonna go into the last one.

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4 hours ago, Jeric said:

Your point? It's probably open on his laptop while he's playing. go ahead and dm him. He probably won't answer

And Sphinx does play games with his friends so he probably only has one discord account... I know he does among us, and such

It seems you get along with him, so he might answer you. You might have a good idea as to what type of question(s) he might answer as well. Anyway, I'd send you a message on Discord, but I don't know your Discord. I imagine there's a place here I could find it, but I don't know where...

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2 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

It isn't a matter of 'smart'. The 'experts' have at least three things that you most assuredly do not have: Authority, experience, and credibility.

You don't have any authority. That is a simple enough fact.

As for experience, unless you're a reroll (and you may well be for all we know), you haven't even been playing long enough to have fought in even a single world war let alone the most important and substantial political reshuffles this game has ever seen. If you're not even familiar with the most recent foundations of modern politics, then why even try to penetrate grudges and baggage almost a decade old?

Now, you may well have experience from other games, but the majority of existing games have fundamentally different enough mechanics that any experience simply doesn't carry over. You've said as much yourself: that one of the games you've played well recently is one that resets once a winner emerges. That kind of mechanic lends itself to a vastly different culture and set of political maneuvers. Attempting to apply those to this game absolutely would, and has, resulted in awful problems for those that try. Ask what happened to NPO, that'll give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

I'm not even gonna go into the last one.

 

I agree with you that I have no official authority. If I were a reroll, I would have known a lot more than I knew coming into this. So yeah, this is my first world war. I have learned a little in regards to grudges and baggage from the past and am certainly interested in learning more if it it would help resolve this war.

 

As to your notion that other heavily political games differ substantially from this one, there we'd disagree. While the other current political game I'm playing does reset in around 40 days, I've played previous games on facebook from Plarium that are pretty similar to the one we're currently playing. Mainly, Stormfall. Anyway, feel free to tell me about this NPO. 

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3 hours ago, Phoenyx said:

It seems you get along with him, so he might answer you. You might have a good idea as to what type of question(s) he might answer as well. Anyway, I'd send you a message on Discord, but I don't know your Discord. I imagine there's a place here I could find it, but I don't know where...

8 hours ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

image.png.bdf6a0ea99fe4d784cbcff10735ea210.png

Firstly, you have to remember that Sphinx, believe it or not, is in-fact human and does also have a personal life

I can assure you that Sphinx has no intention of returning to the game at the current moment. Sphinx left all the discord servers he was in bar 3 (that number is off the top of my head from when he was talking to me when he left) and those servers are all related to his friendships with people outside of PW. He may have re-joined some servers, and I am not entirely sure whether he has or hasn't. Sphinx does still log into discord, but it is for reasons unrelated to PW such as in the screenshot that Leo posted, to play games. People don't just use discord to play PW, they use it for other things.

As for what Pheonyx said about messaging him, I would like to rehash that he has zero interest in PW. So if you were to message him, he likely wouldn't respond due to the fact that he wants nothing to do with the game and the community as a whole.

 

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4 minutes ago, Putmir Vladin said:

Firstly, you have to remember that Sphinx, believe it or not, is in-fact human and does also have a personal life

I can assure you that Sphinx has no intention of returning to the game at the current moment. Sphinx left all the discord servers he was in bar 3 (that number is off the top of my head from when he was talking to me when he left) and those servers are all related to his friendships with people outside of PW. He may have re-joined some servers, and I am not entirely sure whether he has or hasn't. Sphinx does still log into discord, but it is for reasons unrelated to PW such as in the screenshot that Leo posted, to play games. People don't just use discord to play PW, they use it for other things.

As for what Pheonyx said about messaging him, I would like to rehash that he has zero interest in PW. So if you were to message him, he likely wouldn't respond due to the fact that he wants nothing to do with the game and the community as a whole.

 

Alright, fine. I have been thinking, however, that Sphinx isn't actually the one who said that Hedge/TCW/Swamp would be engaging in a first strike. That was Boyce:

760912699_ScreenShot2020-11-15at7_36_36AM.png.6df5cae8d8712252f53b07416ea2e629.png

 

Boyce is still around, isn't he? Does he have anything to back up his assertion above? Because from everything that Tyrion and TFP have said, who I believe are the strongest Alliances in Swamp, they had absolutely no intention of initiating a first strike. 

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15 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Alright, fine. I have been thinking, however, that Sphinx isn't actually the one who said that Hedge/TCW/Swamp would be engaging in a first strike. That was Boyce:

760912699_ScreenShot2020-11-15at7_36_36AM.png.6df5cae8d8712252f53b07416ea2e629.png

 

Boyce is still around, isn't he? Does he have anything to back up his assertion above? Because from everything that Tyrion and TFP have said, who I believe are the strongest Alliances in Swamp, they had absolutely no intention of initiating a first strike. 

Only logs of a DM conversation he had with an ex-leader (Sphinx).

I like how the words of one person who no longer had any influence in the game (words that hardly anyone else were even aware of) has generated 26 pages of discussion. 🤣

I can't wait to see what Sphinx logs people are going to wheel out at the start of whatever the next war is.

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4 minutes ago, LukeTP said:

Only logs of a DM conversation he had with an ex-leader (Sphinx).

I like how the words of one person who no longer had any influence in the game (words that hardly anyone else were even aware of) has generated 26 pages of discussion. 🤣

I can't wait to see what Sphinx logs people are going to wheel out at the start of whatever the next war is.

The real kicker as far as I'm concerned is that I think we've already seen all of Sphinx' relevant logs and he never mentions any dates, tentative or otherwise, of HM, TCW and Swamp initiating a first strike. So this whole war may well have started because of some speculation on the part of this fellow named Boyce. Who I have since learned is respected or something, but where is he now? Surely he could come say a few words as to how he came to this conclusion that HM, TCW and Swamp would be attacking soon?

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7 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

The real kicker as far as I'm concerned is that I think we've already seen all of Sphinx' relevant logs and he never mentions any dates, tentative or otherwise, of HM, TCW and Swamp initiating a first strike. So this whole war may well have started because of some speculation on the part of this fellow named Boyce. Who I have since learned is respected or something, but where is he now? Surely he could come say a few words as to how he came to this conclusion that HM, TCW and Swamp would be attacking soon?

Yes it was all speculation. I think he's a bit busy fighting the war he had started at the moment though to come and talk though.

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4 minutes ago, LukeTP said:

Yes it was all speculation. I think he's a bit busy fighting the war he had started at the moment though to come and talk though.

Here's to hoping he comes eventually. Because wars aren't only started with such speculations. They can also -continue- because of them. Think it's time someone approach Boyce and ask him to contribute here, because it seems to me like we've now got 1 trillion in losses over something he said. Surely everyone should want to be better informed as to the basis for those critical words he wrote.

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18 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

Here's to hoping he comes eventually. Because wars aren't only started with such speculations. They can also -continue- because of them. Think it's time someone approach Boyce and ask him to contribute here, because it seems to me like we've now got 1 trillion in losses over something he said. Surely everyone should want to be better informed as to the basis for those critical words he wrote.

If there's one thing i've learned in my time playing PnW... people decide who they are going to attack, THEN go and find a CB afterwards. Once one side has decided to war the other, the reasoning for it is kind of irrelevant. Everyone won't just suddenly stop and go "actually, the CB was complete rubbish, let's have peace".

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