We are here for the whales - t$ DoW

[The Emperor]

6 hours ago, Batavus said:

Out of context logs from the start of the war, that are not of what I spoke of, the time stamps prove this

Using logs that are not of what I spoke of to argue against my point, both stupid and scummy. Typical Batavia =/

The event I spoke of was when BK came to us trying to get support to hit TPF, when it was clear they didnt want to enter, this was some weeks into the war, once TKR was solidly defeated.

Those are from the start when the coalition assumed TPF will enter, they are not of what I spoke of LOL.  The timestamp proves this. The event I spoke of happened well into it, when BK came to us, towards the middle of the war, and tried to launch an attack on TFP. I had managed to stop that, though TFP was attacked sometime weeks later though, unilaterally from IQ, despite my efforts to stop it.

The coalition, and us, didn't preempt TPF because of a Polaris tie and NPO if I remember right, it was something of that nature, not the convo you showed ahaha

As I said, you are using logs that are not of what I spoke of to argue against my point. So it seems you are still the same dishonest derpy dude from back then =/

If you can convince people with what you said, they deserve to be convinced.

 

6 hours ago, Batavus said:

I I helped maintain your alliance for 8 months as your right hand man for FA

If that where true, how come you didnt know it was TFP's treaties that stopped TFP from getting pre empted by the coalition LOL

Please dont remind me how hard it was to get you to do the FA we needed our FA person to do, I would of saved time just doing it myself then talking with you and trying to get it done.... I''m sure you wont let reality get in the way of your fantasy though, Batavia never does

 

 

4 hours ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

Fist is just old and senile now, a relic of the past. Please don't judge him too hard on this - we call them senior moments. I'm not sure how his handlers managed to let him escape the retirement home but I'm sure he is safely back at home watching re-runs of the Golden Girls or M*A*S*H and spoon feeding him his rice pudding.

Love you Fist! 💚

Either that, or I was there and remember how it happened LOL. Did Kaiser not keep you in the loop about this thing?

And MASH is a good show, frick you. I think its time for bingo, we'll settle this later young man buwahahah
 

10 hours ago, Tartarus said:

 

 

Kira de Kara

Edited November 3, 2020 by The God Emperor of Mankind

[Thrawn]

18 minutes ago, Benfro said:

There's so little activity in this thread today other than a Fist sighting to pour gas on someone's fire, but TBD whose? Where did all the Hedge/TCW/Swamp/Rose apologists go?

From the recently browsing bar at the bottom of the page, it looks like they're still here silently watch you guys sit in your echo chambers and bridge logical gaps in your arguments with fallacies and cherry-picked evidence, but apparently that's the meta in these forums.

I myself hope to get back to Partisan on what he last said to me, or make a longer post explaining my grievances with the prevailing arguments here but it'll be a while since I got school work. Hope you guys will be patient till then.

[Mayor]

3 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

If you're referring to Arrgh, we didn't declare war.  Nobody actually seeks going to war with Arrgh.  Arrgh started that conflict by mass raiding our folks and there were RoH and it's never gone beyond that.  Not sure what your point is here.

In the thread about the RoH. Many of your bloc said in the thread their intention was to destroy Arrgh or reduce their capacity for raiding forever. Said they would have enforced a perma-blockade, demoralize Arrgh, and acted like this would be the end of Arrgh. In the end you guys lost like 30b. Of course anyone who experienced TKRs countless wars against Arrgh would know that containment of Arrgh is not really realistic and tbf your war against Arrgh was far more of a dogpile than the usual TKR ones.

[Prefonteen]

11 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

Using logs that are not of what I spoke of to argue against my point, both stupid and scummy. Typical Batavia =/

The event I spoke of was when BK came to us trying to get support to hit TPF, when it was clear they didnt want to enter, this was some weeks into the war, once TKR was solidly defeated.

Those are from the start when the coalition assumed TPF will enter, they are not of what I spoke of LOL.  The timestamp proves this. The event I spoke of happened well into it, when BK came to us, towards the middle of the war, and tried to launch an attack on TFP. I had managed to stop that, though TFP was attacked sometime weeks later though, unilaterally from IQ, despite my efforts to stop it.

The coalition, and us, didn't preempt TPF because of a Polaris tie and NPO if I remember right, it was something of that nature, not the convo you showed ahaha

As I said, you are using logs that are not of what I spoke of to argue against my point. So it seems you are still the same dishonest derpy dude from back then =/

If you can convince people with what you said, they deserve to be convinced.

 

If that where true, how come you didnt know it was TFP's treaties that stopped TFP from getting pre empted by the coalition LOL

Please dont remind me how hard it was to get you to do the FA we needed our FA person to do, I would of saved time just doing it myself then talking with you and trying to get it done.... I''m sure you wont let reality get in the way of your fantasy though, Batavia never does

 

 

Either that, or I was there and remember how it happened LOL. Did Kaiser not keep you in the loop about this thing?

And MASH is a good show, frick you. I think its time for bingo, we'll settle this later young man buwahahah
 

Kira de Kara

Fist. Why are you in this thread, trying to go on some personal tangent about batavia, my 2nd in command who has not really been the key decision maker in syndi nor the focal point of attention during these events? Batavia has been the dove in the dynamic.

Even if for a second your argument holds true (which frankly I dispute because its all over the place), it's entirely irrelevant to the subject at hand or this war. A dogpile of a war which was an inevitability due to the *stated intent* of certain parties to cut is down to size.

 

2 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

From the recently browsing bar at the bottom of the page, it looks like they're still here silently watch you guys sit in your echo chambers and bridge logical gaps in your arguments with fallacies and cherry-picked evidence, but apparently that's the meta in these forums.

I myself hope to get back to Partisan on what he last said to me, or make a longer post explaining my grievances with the prevailing arguments here but it'll be a while since I got school work. Hope you guys will be patient till then.

I'm a patient man, my love.

5 minutes ago, Mayor said:

In the thread about the RoH. Many of your bloc said in the thread their intention was to destroy Arrgh or reduce their capacity for raiding forever. Said they would have enforced a perma-blockade, demoralize Arrgh, and acted like this would be the end of Arrgh. In the end you guys lost like 30b. Of course anyone who experienced TKRs countless wars against Arrgh would know that containment of Arrgh is not really realistic and tbf your war against Arrgh was far more of a dogpile than the usual TKR ones.

This is far more recent and relevant imo, and mayor makes a decent point.

[The Emperor]

2 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Fist. Why are you in this thread, trying to go on some personal tangent about batavia, my 2nd in command who has not really been the key decision maker in syndi nor the focal point of attention during these events? Batavia has been the dove in the dynamic.

Even if for a second your argument holds true (which frankly I dispute because its all over the place), it's entirely irrelevant to the subject at hand or this war. A dogpile of a war which was an inevitability due to the *stated intent* of certain parties to cut is down to size.

 

I'm a patient man, my love.

This is far more recent and relevant imo, and mayor makes a decent point.

The answer to your question is in my 1st post, please read it again more carefully.

[Prefonteen]

14 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

The answer to your question is in my 1st post, please read it again more carefully.

Right. The "no u" is acknowledged. Moving on to actually relevant topics.

[The Emperor]

41 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Right. The "no u" is acknowledged. Moving on to actually relevant topics.

I dont think you know what a "No u" is, let me try and help:

"No u is the most effective and most common comeback in case of an insult. It is basically a reverse card from Uno; every negative comment someone made on you or your family, it can be turned back on him with these two simple, but nonetheless powerful words, defeating your opponent with his own words."

That is clearly not the case here, I was not returning an insult, but pointing out that if you dont understand what my intentions where for posting, that you need to do a better job reading what I said earlier, as it is there.

[Adrienne]

Never change, Fist. Never change.

[The Emperor]

8 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

Never change, Fist. Never change.

I think the last time we spoke on these forums, I called out your lies on something and you ran away. Does your bitterness stem from that? Or was it how my nation gave you your 1st ingame L? When I told you I enjoyed the dance, I was being polite, it's never fun when your partner just lays down and takes it.

[Adrienne]

8 minutes ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

I think the last time we spoke on these forums, I called out your lies on something and you ran away. Does your bitterness stem from that? Or was it how my nation gave you your 1st ingame L? When I told you I enjoyed the dance, I was being polite, it's never fun when your partner just lays down and takes it.

"History" time with Fist never fails to entertain.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Adrienne

[Ripper]

14 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

If you're referring to Arrgh, we didn't declare war.  Nobody actually seeks going to war with Arrgh.  Arrgh started that conflict by mass raiding our folks and there were RoH and it's never gone beyond that.  Not sure what your point is here.

RoH implies defence. Defence implies you protect members.

1. The war started because Hannah and Alexio were specifically hit. Your "RoHs" were based literally on 5 raids ("mass raiding your folks"). Our RoH was based on the fact that Ampersand attacked the entirety of Arrgh, and not just the 3 people that participated to that "mass raid".
2. Literally every other Swamp alliance just attacked Arrgh to support Ampersand on their aggressive activities. Calling this a "defense" is ridiculous, and submitting a RoH for that is even more so.

About the "we didn't go to war" part, 1 out of 3 of your own government members clarified what your scope was. Just a few links to refresh your memory:

• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473456
• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473508
• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473552
• etc.

Your goal was never to defend members or support them. Your goals were:

• Arrgh to lose profit
• Arrgh to lose members
• Essentially, Arrgh to be "taught a lesson" and stop raiding

This has been clear through all the posts by the Swamp membership. Only Alexio and you pretend that this was not an anti-piracy campaign and was just a "defensive war".

On the other hand, if you really believe you are in the defensive here, either we should be blushing for being considered such a great threat that you need 600 nations to attack us, or you should be worrying about the military capabilities of your bloc.

In any case, #off-topic. Sorry for derailing the thread. I will keep it to that.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Ripper

[Sam Cooper]

15 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

If you're referring to Arrgh, we didn't declare war.  Nobody actually seeks going to war with Arrgh.  Arrgh started that conflict by mass raiding our folks and there were RoH and it's never gone beyond that.  Not sure what your point is here.

Mass raid by 3 pirates? What's happened to Orbis' standards. 🤦

the RoH was made by Arrgh in response to Ampersand raids, DoWs were from TLE and TF so you're either keeping up with your lying streak or you've been kept out of the loop by rest of swamp on this one too. 🤷

Either way not a good sign for TI.

[Jeric]

Hate to be that guy but last I checked this is t$'s wardec thread not arrghs... Go back to your own thread

[The Titan]

13 hours ago, The God Emperor of Mankind said:

I think the last time we spoke on these forums, I called out your lies on something and you ran away. Does your bitterness stem from that? Or was it how my nation gave you your 1st ingame L? When I told you I enjoyed the dance, I was being polite, it's never fun when your partner just lays down and takes it.

Adrienne bitter? Never

 

6 hours ago, Ripper said:

RoH implies defence. Defence implies you protect members.

1. The war started because Hannah and Alexio were specifically hit. Your "RoHs" were based literally on 5 raids ("mass raiding your folks"). Our RoH was based on the fact that Ampersand attacked the entirety of Arrgh, and not just the 3 people that participated to that "mass raid".
2. Literally every other Swamp alliance just attacked Arrgh to support Ampersand on their aggressive activities. Calling this a "defense" is ridiculous, and submitting a RoH for that is even more so.

About the "we didn't go to war" part, 1 out of 3 of your own government members clarified what your scope was. Just a few links to refresh your memory:

• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473456
• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473508
• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473552
• etc.

Your goal was never to defend members or support them. Your goals were:

• Arrgh to lose profit
• Arrgh to lose members
• Essentially, Arrgh to be "taught a lesson" and stop raiding

This has been clear through all the posts by the Swamp membership. Only Alexio and you pretend that this was not an anti-piracy campaign and was just a "defensive war".

On the other hand, if you really believe you are in the defensive here, either we should be blushing for being considered such a great threat that you need 600 nations to attack us, or you should be worrying about the military capabilities of your bloc.

In any case, #off-topic. Sorry for derailing the thread. I will keep it to that.

 

 

Dogpile 2.0

Quote

Using logs that are not of what I spoke of to argue against my point, both stupid and scummy. Typical Batavia =/

Yeah, frick you too @The God Emperor of Mankind, I find your words both unreliable and unsupported. Those logs do enforce what Batavia said, which is what you contested.

Besides the point, what are you doing here? You're in VM in Pantheon who is honestly irrelevant at this point and, thus, you by extension. So bye now.

[BigMorf]

8 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Hate to be that guy but last I checked this is t$'s wardec thread not arrghs... Go back to your own thread

Swamp brought it up as a reason to fear the "Quack Hegemony" which is the entire cause of this war, so I'm gonna say it's completely fair game to bring it up. 

 

[Prefonteen]

7 hours ago, Ripper said:

RoH implies defence. Defence implies you protect members.

1. The war started because Hannah and Alexio were specifically hit. Your "RoHs" were based literally on 5 raids ("mass raiding your folks"). Our RoH was based on the fact that Ampersand attacked the entirety of Arrgh, and not just the 3 people that participated to that "mass raid".
2. Literally every other Swamp alliance just attacked Arrgh to support Ampersand on their aggressive activities. Calling this a "defense" is ridiculous, and submitting a RoH for that is even more so.

About the "we didn't go to war" part, 1 out of 3 of your own government members clarified what your scope was. Just a few links to refresh your memory:

• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473456
• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473508
• https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/29953-walk-the-plank-roh/&do=findComment&comment=473552
• etc.

Your goal was never to defend members or support them. Your goals were:

• Arrgh to lose profit
• Arrgh to lose members
• Essentially, Arrgh to be "taught a lesson" and stop raiding

This has been clear through all the posts by the Swamp membership. Only Alexio and you pretend that this was not an anti-piracy campaign and was just a "defensive war".

On the other hand, if you really believe you are in the defensive here, either we should be blushing for being considered such a great threat that you need 600 nations to attack us, or you should be worrying about the military capabilities of your bloc.

In any case, #off-topic. Sorry for derailing the thread. I will keep it to that.

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Hate to be that guy but last I checked this is t$'s wardec thread not arrghs... Go back to your own thread

Arrgh is now a valuable syndi ally even if they don't want to be lmfao

 

Hi ripper! 

[Raphael]

15 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Arrgh is now a valuable syndi ally

 

[Bollocks]

The major disappointment for me this war is that nobody made a dank reference to a karma war for Q

[Pasky Darkfire]

21 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

Hi. You're fighting a war in defense of KT.

Thrilling, isn't it?

About like this.

[Raphael]

3 hours ago, Bollocks said:

The major disappointment for me this war is that nobody made a dank reference to a karma war for Q

Given they spent the previous global war getting rolled for 9+months, what Karma did t$ or TKR have coming to them?

[Bollocks]

2 hours ago, Roberts said:

Given they spent the previous global war getting rolled for 9+months, what Karma did t$ or TKR have coming to them?

By being such a hegemony so big and powerful that the rest of the game can gang up on you 3v1 

[HeroofTime55]

Imagine plotting a 3v1 dogpile and still getting your asses handed to you, both on the battlefield and on the forums.  It's hilarious how much of a dumpster coalition Swamp and friends are.

[TRM]

10 hours ago, Roberts said:

Given they spent the previous global war getting rolled for 9+months, what Karma did t$ or TKR have coming to them?

Meh. TKR doesn't deserve to get rolled. I've always been a fan of TKR, from them rolling us, to getting rolled alongside them, to rolling them. 

tS, on the other hand, definitely does, for the shenanigans they pulled while KETOG, Chaos, and Rose were fighting IQ. Yes, they got rolled by IQ in NPOLT, but not because of what they did to GG. They got rolled for doing shitty FA, and just getting outplayed by IQ.

7 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Imagine plotting a 3v1 dogpile and still getting your asses handed to you, both on the battlefield and on the forums.  It's hilarious how much of a dumpster coalition Swamp and friends are.

Ik you are salty, and can't help being so, since you are James' prodigy, but let's not kid ourselves. Swamp isn't the one getting rolled atm. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Orcinus Orca

[The Emperor]

On 11/3/2020 at 6:43 AM, Sir Scarfalot said:

That is technically true. However, it is not at all an accurate or fair statement to make.

Truth alone will indeed not get many people on your side, but truth and honesty is still a lot of what it takes, and is absolutely an indispensable part of it. Honesty alone won't get people on your side... but dishonesty is guaranteed to set your allies against you and drop whatever reputation you have or might try to cultivate straight into the toilet.

While that makes sense, I can go on for quite some time giving examples of how people lied or where misleading about things, and it worked out well ha. It just doesn't align with reality in PnW, if you do learn this lesson in time, I hope it wont be as painful to you  as it was for me

On 11/3/2020 at 7:39 AM, Cooper_ said:

That said, I'm a bit skeptical about your claims with regards to Pantheon's decision-making.  I'd contest it based on your actions that war with regards to our protectorate, Nova Riata.  Am I happy that you didn't decide to take advantage of TFP?  Sure, but I don't think you deserve brownie points for the doing the right thing, especially with the context of you clearly doing the wrong thing with Nova in that same war.  Consistency in principle is the only way any set of morals can be exercised in this game.

There is a bit more to that then Adri has told you it seems

When we hit Nova and that other prot, my intent was to do something similar to what we did when we tested our new milcom system on Typhon, which was to have it be one round, and give them some reps to pay for their damage, and lobby to get them peace.

TKR also had a long history of using prots in wars, and our coalition wanted to be sure we defeated the undefeated TKR.

That didnt stay my plan long though, when we hit, Pooball and those guys mocked some of our members who did peace out out of pity, and said a ton of douchy shit, and when It came time to deal with him, it became apparent that Pooball was a massive piece of shit(Pun intended, heh), and I decided I wouldn't spend any political capitol trying to get them peace, and refereed him to the coalition et large to try and negotiate. Pooball, being the piece of shit he was, didnt manage to sway anyone that I can recall

One thing I found interesting at the time was how TKR didnt do much(Or anything. I cant remember any attempts..but it was a long time ago), when it came to talking with me about peace for their prot. While TKR likes to cite the injustice of it at the 1st glance(And I dont think its wrong to say it was injustice overall, I would just disagree), they did little if anything to try and help, I think pooball just told me that they just told him to talk to me one on one. I can guarantee you that if Adri would of apologized for how they supported TCW when Jeric stole our bank and fled there, after colluding with their leader about it, I would of spent the capital trying to get them peace with the coalition. I didn't quite understand how warped her mind is though, and how insane she is when it suits her. Her behavior in the coalition* peace talks was nothing short of abominable. Even if they didn't apologize, a strong argument likely would of worked. There is a bit more then this that happened though, it was a crazy time, but these are the significant points that paint an accurate picture of the world from my point of view at the time on that subject.

When it comes to me, I dont have a problem rolling scumbags, whether they be previously undefeated alliances that support bank thefts and have leaders that outright lie with no remorse, or pooball's micro when he was so awful to my members.

17 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Adrienne bitter? Never

 

Dogpile 2.0

Yeah, frick you too @The God Emperor of Mankind, I find your words both unreliable and unsupported. Those logs do enforce what Batavia said, which is what you contested.

Besides the point, what are you doing here? You're in VM in Pantheon who is honestly irrelevant at this point and, thus, you by extension. So bye now.

This level of derp reminds me all to much of Pooball, TKR really does have a type when it comes to their allies it seems heh

Keep living in your fantasy land if you believe Batavias BS LOL. As I said, the truth is that at the start of the war when those SS's where from, it was the NPO in the coalition sheidling TFP from our coalition(Which Batavia had no role in LOL), and when, later on when we could of rolled them when BK tried to find support for dec-ing on them, he had no meaningful roll in that(And given how he posted the wrong SS's when I mentioned it, he may of had no idea that it had happened. I cant recall if I mentioned it to him or not).

It only delayed them from being hit though, when BK managed to get enough support int he coalition with our sphere against the idea.

It wasn't just me though, just putting it like I have puts me in too good of a light. Kaiser was also against it, he is a fantastic man in every sense. I never liked him much from my 1st play through, but once we started working together and I actually got to know him, he became one of the few people in this game I would consider a friend.

Edited November 5, 2020 by The God Emperor of Mankind

[Thrawn]

On 11/3/2020 at 6:37 PM, Prefonteen said:

I'm a patient man, my love.

Thanks pop. Came back at the right time too now that I'm beige. These posts attracted attention from nations who reminded me words here have an impact on my precious pixels.

On 11/2/2020 at 1:05 PM, Prefonteen said:

According to ronny, as per that post, the talks ceased because rose had not (yet) bought in. HM would not move without having 4 spheres, instead of 3.

I don't understand, what do you mean by (yet)*? That post outright says that Rose "was out". At worst the intention to roll you guys existed, but never become anything more than that and would've remained that way until further steps were taken in that direction. Is there something else to make you think otherwise?

On 11/2/2020 at 1:05 PM, Prefonteen said:

The base fact underlying our CB (that you were looking to roll us with a majority of the game, and that you sought to convince rose of joining that gangbang) is undisputed except by tyrion who has failed to produce anything of note. The rest is confirmed by your own sphere leaders.

I thought you attacked because you KNEW an attack was coming FOR SURE. That's not what said by Ron or any other leader to my knowledge. As far as I've seen the most damning thing here is that there were attempts to form a coalition to attack Quack, but that never went anywhere. You and several others made the claim that a hit by our spheres was imminent. Unless new revelations popped up and I'm essentially just wasting your time here, I don't think that proves that claim.

On 11/2/2020 at 1:05 PM, Prefonteen said:

That is why you are being dismissed. Because you are blatantly and obnoxiously ignoring the obvious and asking for "more proof" in search of minor details to nitpick at in order to be able to call us out for pre-empting you.

Wasn't even talking about me here, but ok. But the only reason I'm asking for proof is because I honestly think its lacking.

Now I don't mean to waterboard you with long posts, but I figure I'll include it here since I would be saying some of it here anyway. Its not really directed at anything you said to me, but a summary of everything said in this thread.

Quote

 Quack's Case in a lot of nutshells

The initial claim:

• Recognizing the existential threat that HM poses to the $yndicate through its affiliations with Sphinx' coalition plans,  The $yndicate sees no option but to shit on ronnys lawn. En garde, old man.
• We were alerted to an imminent threat and responded to it. The outcome will not be in our favor, but I have no regrets over the decision to pre-empt what looks, stinks and sounds like a premade coalition or bandwagon dogpile.
• Hedge was hit because boyce's confirmation straight up outlined Hedge as being "definitely in", and because t$-Hedge relations have at no point been friendly since the end of last war. We both know this aku.
• Are you saying that a future war by multiple spheres was coming for us? Because that's why you were hit.
• I believe plans were confirmed that you guys want to roll this war out in a month. Probably because of some last minute boosting and stockpiling needed. What advantage do we get from sitting there and waiting for you to come at us?
   

Its pretty much that an attack on Quack by tCW and Hedge was GUARANTEED to come, so you opted to get the first hit.

Supporting evidence:

The leaks provided by Boyce, of himself claiming that tCW, Hedge and Swamp plan to hit Quack and want Rose to join in.

The problem here is that the only thing here even implicating Hedge with Sphinx (like your CB says) is Boyce saying so. That's just hearsay. There's no need to even go further here.

Other people chimed in with a derivative of these:

• two other spheres join HM's defense immediately and with no public dow, indicating a loose coalition was already in place
• Everyone knows about the plan, our side was made aware (hence this war), obviously all of you were well aware of your plan, the instant counters make it plainly obvious, who actually are you selling this line to?
• And thus you expect me to believe it mere coincidence that within twenty minutes of Quack declaring war on Hedge, both Swamp and Rose had countered against Quack, like there was some degree of planning already taking place?
• Thalmor, my love, this line simply doesn't work. We've got confirmation from both HM and Rosesphere that backroom deals already existed. You've got no one to convince but your own people - so you may as well drop the pretense.
• You can keep trotting this out, but given that Rose and Swamp alliances were countering within twenty minutes lends credibility to the notion that your agreements were already in place and it was just a matter of time.

Essentially: Swamp and Rose/Cam countered Quack almost immediately after Hedge and tCW were hit showing an attack was imminent. Its other variant is, the presence of secret alliances between Hedge, Rose and Swamp show the attack was imminent.

Supporting Evidence:

The immediate counters and the admission there are backroom deals. Other than that, NOTHING.

You guys think there's no reason they would be working together against you other than they were planning to attack together from the very beginning. Affirming your suspicions with an argument from incredulity. What evidence exists to say this secret collaboration exists to destroy Quack? Ron's statement?

Ron's Post:

• To the bolded part: So, you were on board. Swamp was on board. TCW was on board, and  the moment Rose would be on board, you would hit.
• You spent months pretending to be friendly, and again: Ronny confirmed you approached him. Your wall of text falls on deaf ears. You sought a dogpile, you got it. The only cost is your credibility.
• Get on topic. Ronny confirmed he was approached a month before we milled up. Our CB isnt what's cracky here. Read up, and come back with a new response.
• The base fact underlying our CB (that you were looking to roll us with a majority of the game, and that you sought to convince rose of joining that gangbang) is undisputed except by tyrion who has failed to produce anything of note. The rest is confirmed by your own sphere leaders.
• read up. Your side has confirmed that at least 3/4 of the spheres were looking to roll quack a month before we militarized. It got leaked through sphinx, which is why TCW was hit along with HM.

Supporting Evidence:

On 11/2/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Swamp came to HM about a month ago, asking about hitting you guys, and as the leader of Grumpy, I said i would only be on board if Rose was also on board, and Rose said no, so Grumpy was out. After about a week, I assumed the plan died since I didnt hear anything more about it.  

Many of you think this damning evidence that confirms what's outlined in the CB. No, this is literally cherry-picking. In Ron's post he also mentions that these discussions ceased after a week of silence. The only interaction here is whether HM would attack on a certain condition which that was never met. If taken at its word (which you all happily did), it means in the end, there were no existing plans to hit Quack. At worst, one can only argue that the intentions existed at some point, but even still those intentions were never actualized and remained that way until the militarization begun.

In the end, the claim in the CB that a dogpile by tCW, Hedge, Swamp or Rose was coming for sure is unsubstantiated and unless the goals are being shifted... At best, all you guys have shown you started a war to a ghost of the intentions to begin the plan to roll Quack. I honestly think you guys just got the logs, launched this pre-empt banking you were right, got confronted with the fact this is all hearsay and with nothing to dispute that, grasped onto anything that could be used to justify actions that would seem rash and this case its information supplied to you by your opponents. This info was then selectively framed to affirm your claims.

So far the only thing you guys can concretely prove is the rest of the blocs see you as a threat, and that someone between Tyrion and Ron isn't telling the truth. I'm not saying you guys are wrong about this (certainly not saying you're right either) I'm saying you haven't proven what lies in the CB with just this.

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Arric II Vysera
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