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We are here for the whales - t$ DoW


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5 minutes ago, Keegoz said:

I feel like you guys are skipping over the parts of my posts where I openly admitted that I supported the ties and why we made them. Fact is the reason did disappear afterwards.

Never said you have to drop anyone, but don't be shocked that I dislike your relative size. If you remember when we tried to make smaller spheres in KT the aim was always to get IQ to split up to make it a reality. I haven't really had the energy or the time to push that hard for it this time around and a part of me had hoped it'd happen naturally.

We cancelled Swamp with the intention to move away because tCW was dealt with. We agreed to defend each other in the face of your militarisation (so like a week ago?), which yes was made easier due to a pre-existing relationship. 

I haven't spoken to abbas for months. I legit haven't been active for a month. This is your side of the narrative that you've tried to push since the end of the war. Although cute, factually incorrect. I think the last time I spoke to a Rose gov member was about my rl about a month ago (and it wasn't even abbas) to explain my absence from the game. Rose helping us when we were in KT shouldn't have been a shock. It was legit against IQ lol, they never helped us with anything but IQ. You know as well that it was a push to have them help in a few of those wars but hey if it makes you happy to put explain it all way with "abbas and Keegoz" so be it.

I will let @Theodosius handle the body of your post.

As for activity level; my inactivity the past months, and at various other occasion in the past never stopped you friends from attributing all kinds of malicious schemes to me friend. Are you saying I should believe you over the direct implication from logs and corrobations?

 

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8 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

I will let @Theodosius handle the body of your post.

As for activity level; my inactivity the past months, and at various other occasion in the past never stopped you friends from attributing all kinds of malicious schemes to me friend. Are you saying I should believe you over the direct implication from logs and corrobations?

I think the second you tried to base your CB on something that Boyce said, I cringed, and then became really sad.

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14 minutes ago, Insert Name Here said:

Unsurprisingly, god tier FA from Partisan. And pleasantly "surprised" with Wilhelm's,apart from the back and forth with Buorhann which seemed too personal. On that note I can say from experience you both created / were part of very chill communities, no need to go at it although there's probably some bad blood I'm not familiar with.

Honestly, and trying to be as impartial as possible (which frankly isn't hard because I like people in both parties and reached a point of political maturity in the game), I doubt in this case t$ or TKR were looking to build a hegemony.

My main reason for this is that, when 2 of the 3 powerhouses in the game (the other one being Rose) sign each other, it's almost autmoatic for the rest to feel threatened. And that's where I find these potential hegemonic attempts iffy: Partisan is not an idiot, I'm 100% sure, if he wanted to form a hegemony, the absolute worst way to go about it is putting a huge target on your back by signing another tremendously powerful alliance. I happened to be chatting with Abbas a few hours ago and told him this.

If you wanna build a hegemony, you go about it by singing mid and small sized alliances, nurturing the good protectorates, and only when the blob is big enough, then you can sign another powerhouse, or even have a paperless agreement till the 1st war and then it's too late for anyone else to do anything about it. The opposite worked in the past, but with everyone's experience over the years, this isn't true anymore. When 2 of the few powerhouses have a treaty, the rest will feel threatened, that's just how it is. Regardless of the motivations behind the treaty, it's a fear based response from years of experience, particularly the NPO / BK dominated IQ which had several allies - they are in no way comparable to Quack, but that's the trigger it prompts on everyone else.

The IQ comparisons (at least on forums) were shut down, and rightly so, immediately. If they're still happening elsewhere then it's a shame and the culprits should get some perspective. I think the preempt from Quack was inevitable, to mitigate damage given the unfavorable odds. The other side's CB (I'm not in the loop anymore but the swift counters make it obvious that something, either aggressive or defensive,was prepared) is purely fear based, as I guarantee you this war wouldn't have happened if t$ amd TKR weren't treatied, anyone who tries to argue otherwise is an idiot.

In terms of pure game / war mechanics I don't think it's particularly healthy for t$ and TKR (not individually but each with somewhat sizable spheres) to be tied. Same as for instance Grumpy and Guardian (who, on paper or not, tend to fight together). But obviously that shouldn't define treaties - if 2 alliances like each other, the natural thing is to be treatied.

Other than that I hope this war doesn't get dragged out unnecessarily and peace talks are civil.

 

Yes, I like you too INH.

Your points are valid on the whole. It does seem like this was inevitable, and we did strike to pre-empt it.

As for my plans (or non-plans). I've frankly been hibernating for the most part due to RL. No grand complicated schemes here besides milling up the moment we received those logs. Allies and govt can attest.

 

2 minutes ago, Avakael said:

I think the second you tried to base your CB on something that Boyce said, I cringed, and then became really sad.

tbh I was going to outline a standard parti WoT what our rationale is for taking these logs serious (based on a 10-month history as being discussed in this thread), but I lacked the time to do it properly.

 

Not to mention the majority of opposing leaders would ignore it and stick to their hurr durr anyway.

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3 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

tbh I was going to outline a standard parti WoT what our rationale is for taking these logs serious (based on a 10-month history as being discussed in this thread), but I lacked the time to do it properly.

 

Not to mention the majority of opposing leaders would ignore it and stick to their hurr durr anyway.

Then until you do, you are participating in this thread for your domestic audience alone. From my experiences with current TEST leadership, the most plausible scenario for the content of those screencaps by far is that Boyce yanked it straight out of his ass. I was still in CotL leadership when those logs are dated- if anyone had suggested scheming anything with tCW, they would have been laughed out of the room.

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12 minutes ago, Avakael said:

Then until you do, you are participating in this thread for your domestic audience alone. From my experiences with current TEST leadership, the most plausible scenario for the content of those screencaps by far is that Boyce yanked it straight out of his ass. I was still in CotL leadership when those logs are dated- if anyone had suggested scheming anything with tCW, they would have been laughed out of the room.

I suggest you read the content in this thread, then. You're free to dm as well.

 

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6 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

Hedge was hit because boyce's confirmation straight up outlined Hedge as being "definitely in", and because t$-Hedge relations have at no point been friendly since the end of last war.

What? Friend partisan you wound me with your words, what am I swiss cheese?

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33 minutes ago, Hodor said:

INH beat me to it. t$ and TKR need to come to terms with the fact that if a giant, muscular, handsome, seductive androgynous mix of Parti and Adrienne's best parts walks into a bar full of average folk, the aformentioned gorgeously large specimen should expect that everyone will be on edge. Trust me, as a fellow gentle giant, I know.

Hodor has become surprisingly eloquent since last time I saw him on GoT.

 

Good on you Hodor. Good on you. ❤️

4 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

What? Friend partisan you wound me with your words, what am I swiss cheese?

Friend Ronny, we both know you only speak to me when you need your color cleaned. After that you're back off to your multi-hour bridge sessions.

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9 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Hodor has become surprisingly eloquent since last time I saw him on GoT.

 

Good on you Hodor. Good on you. ❤️

He is a lot easier to understand since he turned off his talk-to-text feature.

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19 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Hodor has become surprisingly eloquent since last time I saw him on GoT.

 

Good on you Hodor. Good on you. ❤️

Friend Ronny, we both know you only speak to me when you need your color cleaned. After that you're back off to your multi-hour bridge sessions.

What about all the lovely communication we had when you joined our war effort against TCW by hitting UPN? 

Side note, its weird that all this animosity is focused on us, when it seems like our boy Sphinx has been the center of most of it.

Personally I don't mind getting another shot at tS, I am still pretty annoyed about that bandwagon cheapshot you guys took at us in the IQ war. 

That and you guys crushed poor Impero's spirit when he tried to come back to the game a few months ago, absolutely crushed him.  Poor guy didnt stand a chance.

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12 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

What about all the lovely communication we had when you joined our war effort against TCW by hitting UPN? 

Side note, its weird that all this animosity is focused on us, when it seems like our boy Sphinx has been the center of most of it.

Personally I don't mind getting another shot at tS, I am still pretty annoyed about that bandwagon cheapshot you guys took at us in the IQ war. 

That and you guys crushed poor Impero's spirit when he tried to come back to the game a few months ago, absolutely crushed him.  Poor guy didnt stand a chance.

Friend ronny,

I think all enemies or friends alike at all times can take a moment to step aside and murder the everloving hell out of the purple abomination. That is in no way a political thing friend.

Impero was not a friend, friend. His spirit needed to be crushed for the greater good.

Our animosity is not focused on you friend. It's just that you seem to be very eager to fight us. I cried at the first news that my friend ronny hated me and wanted me dead. Then I knew I had to act. I did a rocky training montage video, and then squared up.

Perhaps one day we can be friends.

 

 

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The IQ comparisons are overblown, nobody is being forced to quit. But at some point since the end of GW14 you have left every bloc wondering when (not if ) it will be their turn on the chopping bloc, similarly that if they don't do something now, nothing will be done when it's their turn, or even worse, that even if they do... it won't be enough. Is a good enough CB on its own. 

 

 

In addition I know on paper this is less 'even' than if either Swamp or Rose/Cam wasn't involved. 

 

But in practice this is probably the most Even this war could have been oriented, and you should really congratulate yourselves for that. but I think you knew that just as much as we did   

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13 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

I don't know how you guys literally plotting to roll us is a "fickle" CB.  

The evidence for this is lacking. All you have are leaks from 2 people who have no affiliation with HM saying that HM is involved in their plotting against Quack. 

That's fickle. 

13 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

We're just fighting now instead of later.  This one is 100% on y'all. Not us.

You were gullible enough to attack us with virtually no information aside from hearsay and your paranoia... Or your side got the perfect excuse to start a war and they don't care if the CB is fickle. Which is it? 

Regardless, there's no proof we sought this out. 

13 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Everyone knows about the plan, our side was made aware (hence this war), obviously all of you were well aware of your plan, the instant counters make it plainly obvious, who actually are you selling this line to?

That's a nice parody of the events. The only thing that everyone knows is that there was a growing concern among the other spheres that Quack was getting too big and might use their strength against the rest of the game. Whether Quack intended to do so is a tossup. Your side however, validated everyone else's concerns when you attacked us using a crappy CB. You cannot be surprised that everyone else attacked you and blame us for conspiracy, it makes no damn sense. 

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50 minutes ago, Smith said:

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What exactly are you saying about your alliances when this is "the most Even this war could have been oriented"?

You have have literally doubled the amount of cities. 

It's not even like Knightfall where we have a dominant upper tier, HM is competitive there and now in this war with Rose joining (for reasons?) you have a 2x advantage there as well.  

Stick to calling us whiners, it's an easier narrative than trying to pretend this war is even. 

Edit: This will have to be updated as Schrute and WTF just joined on your side as well lol

 

 

If you look at how many nations are actually fighting, 1029 v 776 last i checked and how many cities those nations all have it paints an entirely different picture 

 

On top of that if any one of the current blocs involved, weren't,  it would also paint a drastically different picture of a so far relatively even fight 

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21 minutes ago, Arric II Vysera said:

That's a nice parody of the events. The only thing that everyone knows is that there was a growing concern among the other spheres that Quack was getting too big and might use their strength against the rest of the game. Whether Quack intended to do so is a tossup. Your side however, validated everyone else's concerns when you attacked us using a crappy CB. You cannot be surprised that everyone else attacked you and blame us for conspiracy, it makes no damn sense. 

How can you argue this when it's been made abundantly clear, by people on our side and yours, that we don't have the firepower to use our strength against the rest of the game at will?

The game, as it stands, has four distinct groupings between us, Hedge, Swamp, and Rose. To fear that Quack would somehow start using its strength to bully the rest of the game ignores both that we 

a) don't have the kind of ties to other spheres to start imposing ourselves like that and

b) don't possess the numbers and size to go it alone. The sheets Cooper and Smith have each shared in this thread and others make that crystal clear.

Given the broad distaste this community had for IQ and their way of playing, and our own alliance's misfortune at their hands, it seems awfully disingenuous to imply that Quack was looking to fill whatever hegemonic vacuum was left after their departure.

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6 minutes ago, Grave said:

If you look at how many nations are actually fighting, 1029 v 776 last i checked and how many cities those nations all have it paints an entirely different picture 

 

On top of that if any one of the current blocs involved, weren't,  it would also paint a drastically different picture of a so far relatively even fight 

787646377_ScreenShot2020-10-31at2_18_09AM.png.ef612860931ea1bfd16f590ce2295f37.thumb.png.a5d1864baa63b907bed03d4e36ce752c.pngI'd really like some of whatever you're on. Even if Rose wasn't involved you would outnumber us in every tier save the 27-30 range. 
 

EDIT: Actually, you're right. This is would be a drastic change; the numbers are only moderately in your favour rather than overwhelmingly and sadly Rose wouldn't be there to pick up your slack.

Edited by Vemek
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11 hours ago, Akuryo said:

Also guys remember, syndicate never, ever, made publicly threatening remarks to TCW, Rose or Camelot, and never did it allow a (currently chained and gagged) mouthpiece to do it for them. You imagined that, it was a dream.

Uh. We never did?

Unless you're unironically citing EUMIR of all people as your CB, in which case

 

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17 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Wow, I’m active on the forums for a day and somehow I’m belligerent and bullheaded when just asking questions about the war.

  Uh.

 

On 10/30/2020 at 6:42 PM, Buorhann said:

Would that coalition still be forming if one bloc wasn't becoming a "monster" as it was put?

Okay, dude. I respect you, but that? That is not a "question" and you very well know that.

 

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40 minutes ago, Grave said:

 

 

If you look at how many nations are actually fighting, 1029 v 776 last i checked and how many cities those nations all have it paints an entirely different picture 

 

On top of that if any one of the current blocs involved, weren't,  it would also paint a drastically different picture of a so far relatively even fight 

Yes when you have a numbers advantage you don't need to use every nation at once all the time. You can leave some in reserve as needed and for counters. 

You haven't been paying attention if you think the fighting is even, it's not possible with the numbers the way they are. Also it's still the first round lol.

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24 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

How can you argue this when it's been made abundantly clear, by people on our side and yours, that we don't have the firepower to use our strength against the rest of the game at will?

Because Quack used a paper-thin excuse to single out HM. Clearly, you guys were not expecting the other spheres to join in, and neither did I tbh. "Rest of the game" is *kinda* hyperbole. To be more accurate, it would probably be against other spheres.

28 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

The game, as it stands, has four distinct groupings between us, Hedge, Swamp, and Rose. To fear that Quack would somehow start using its strength to bully the rest of the game ignores both that we 

a) don't have the kind of ties to other spheres to start imposing ourselves like that and

b) don't possess the numbers and size to go it alone. The sheets Cooper and Smith have each shared in this thread and others make that crystal clear.

This is what I said:

1 hour ago, Arric II Vysera said:

Your side however, validated everyone else's concerns when you attacked us using a crappy CB.

Sure, but Quack didn't declare on the entire game now, did they? There's no way its inconceivable to you guys that a hostile action against one sphere can't be seen as an attempt to weaken any future war potential against you guys later on.

 

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2 hours ago, Grave said:

The IQ comparisons are overblown, nobody is being forced to quit. But at some point since the end of GW14 you have left every bloc wondering when (not if ) it will be their turn on the chopping bloc, similarly that if they don't do something now, nothing will be done when it's their turn, or even worse, that even if they do... it won't be enough. Is a good enough CB on its own. 

 

 

In addition I know on paper this is less 'even' than if either Swamp or Rose/Cam wasn't involved. 

 

But in practice this is probably the most Even this war could have been oriented, and you should really congratulate yourselves for that. but I think you knew that just as much as we did   

We haven't hit anyone except UPN, who the entire game agreed deserved it.

Our relations with Swamp were amicable until recently, as were TKR's relations with rose. It sounds like you just saw an easy bandwagon to take us out.

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