elsuper Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Is commerce just a flat percent bonus to daily income in a city?For example, if a bank increases commerce by 7%, and my city has an average income of $2.35, would a bank increase that city's income by 7% of $2.35? This makes the most sense to me, but the tooltip description doesn't give details on the math of it. Edited October 13, 2014 by elsuper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 At the max commerce rate (100%), your citizen's average income is tripled. A 7% increase in commerce would translate to a 14% increase to your citizen's average income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Sheepy can correct me on this...In Alpha, prior to changes (and I believe he said it still works out the same), each percentage of commerce works out to $0.05 gross. It's easier for me to know what each 1% equates to. So a bank would equal $0.35 before bonuses and tax rates multiplied. Edited October 13, 2014 by SoS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsuper Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 At the max commerce rate (100%), your citizen's average income is tripled. A 7% increase in commerce would translate to a 14% increase to your citizen's average income. Sheepy can correct me on this...In Alpha, prior to changes (and I believe he said it still works out the same), each percentage of commerce works out to $0.05 gross. It's easier for me to know what each 1% equates to. So a bank would equal $0.35 before bonuses and tax rates multiplied. These statements appear to be compatible with each other after a bit of math-checking. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 SOS's figures are only correct for a single set of economic policies. Atzuya's are accurate for all economic policies. 2 Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 One easy rule of thumb is that one citizen will net you $0.725 daily from the taxes regardless of economic policies. You can do your calculation from there. You know, maybe Sheepy should just remove the '%' from the commerce rates, since 100% kinda implies that it doubles the average income instead of tripling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted October 13, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 13, 2014 One easy rule of thumb is that one citizen will net you $0.725 daily from the taxes regardless of economic policies. You can do your calculation from there. You know, maybe Sheepy should just remove the '%' from the commerce rates, since 100% kinda implies that it doubles the average income instead of tripling it. The commerce rate is just the indicator of wealth in a city. I don't know why 100% would imply a double in income, it simply means a city is at its max for how much money the people can make. Quote Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 SOS's figures are only correct for a single set of economic policies. Atzuya's are accurate for all economic policies. I understood economic policies were only "cosmetic" so I didn't bother with new math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The commerce rate is just the indicator of wealth in a city. I don't know why 100% would imply a double in income, it simply means a city is at its max for how much money the people can make. Idk about others, but the first thing that came across my mind when seeing the commerce improvement the first time was "Wow lookie here! Double the income!". When the number involved is capped at 100%, I think it's natural to see it as +100% income. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The commerce rate is just the indicator of wealth in a city. I don't know why 100% would imply a double in income, it simply means a city is at its max for how much money the people can make. The way it was, 100% would add $5 to the base of $2.5 So, it's more like triple income. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted October 14, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 14, 2014 The way it was, 100% would add $5 to the base of $2.5 So, it's more like triple income. Correct, that is how it works out. The maximum people can make in a city is 3x their avg income. 100% simply is saying they've reached their max potential, whereas 85% or 45% or w/e just means they're a part of the way there. I'm not sure where Atzuya got 2x out of 100%. Quote Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Sheepy, all Atzuya is saying is that intuitively, when you see 100% commerce and all you know is that commerce improves income, it's natural to assume that 100% means 100% increase in income. It's wrong, and any rudimentary experiment with the system would show that it's wrong, but it's not as bizarre as you're making it sound. That isn't to say that you should double the values and raise the cap to 200%, or that you should half the effectiveness of commerce on income. It's just to say that the result isn't apparent on its face without reading in more detail from the descriptions or experimenting with commerce improvements. 2 Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Grillick, you just won a cookie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted October 14, 2014 Administrators Share Posted October 14, 2014 Sheepy, all Atzuya is saying is that intuitively, when you see 100% commerce and all you know is that commerce improves income, it's natural to assume that 100% means 100% increase in income. It's wrong, and any rudimentary experiment with the system would show that it's wrong, but it's not as bizarre as you're making it sound. That isn't to say that you should double the values and raise the cap to 200%, or that you should half the effectiveness of commerce on income. It's just to say that the result isn't apparent on its face without reading in more detail from the descriptions or experimenting with commerce improvements. I can understand this assumption, the part I was addressing was: You know, maybe Sheepy should just remove the '%' from the commerce rates, since 100% kinda implies that it doubles the average income instead of tripling it. Quote Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yeah, I meant t'was the implication I got from the first time I seen the commerce thing. I had quite a hard time wrapping my mind around it back then, and I imagine there are some other people who had the same kind of brief confusion. I'm terrible with words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Nah, there's nothing intuitive at all with the commerce system. 100% commerce means 100% commerce. You need to watch your gross income before and after buying a commerce improvement to really find what commerce rates are worth under your economic policy. Or, you can trust that the policies really are cosmetic and that between gross income and tax rate it will come out the same. So, assume $0.05 per commerce percentage x bonus x (original) tax rate of 29% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Servo Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Does anyone know at what stage certain improvements are profitable? For example, I assume a city with 200 infrastructure would not benefit financially if they invested in a mall or stadium. Is there a generally understood infrastructure level that should be reached before getting a certain commerce based improvement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Yes, but that is highly classified basic math. Population x $$$ from given improvement plus bonuses minus taxes etc. Then figured the return on capital for the initial cost. Then you'll have a good idea when an improvement is profitable and how many days it'll take to realize a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lardbelly Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 What is the best way to let my alliance know to check their Alliance trade screen? I don't want to spam anybody, but I would like them to be able to get resources from me at a decent discount off of global prices. Quote All Hail Lardbelly! Lord of Digestion! Conqueror of Quesadillas! Ruler of Rotissierie! Potentate of Pizza! Future Irresponsible Wielder of Thermonuclear Weapons! Bring me your finest meats and cheeses or be nuked into so much radioactive grit! You have been warned..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 They'll just turn around and sell it On the global market. Alliance announcements is the least annoying way to remind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lardbelly Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Well, that seems rather cynical. I like it. Quote All Hail Lardbelly! Lord of Digestion! Conqueror of Quesadillas! Ruler of Rotissierie! Potentate of Pizza! Future Irresponsible Wielder of Thermonuclear Weapons! Bring me your finest meats and cheeses or be nuked into so much radioactive grit! You have been warned..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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