Perma-War to Drive people from the Game

[Alan]

Guilty Alliance - Oceania
https://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=7527

Against FairyTail - https://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=7720

FairyTail is a small alliance of friends that created the alliance to enjoy playing and building with each other. Recently Oceania declared a round of wars with 9 attacks on FairyTail. Their peace request was simple "Join us or get perma-rolled".

This type of behavior called "Raid-Recruiting" doesn't seem fair to a small group of 6 people, especially those that are just trying to find some space to play the game. But the rules don't say this is unfair to play. So play on.

 

But now it's too much. On this second wave of attacks of which FairyTail's leader is blockaded again there becomes a point to this perma-rolling where it's not a game anymore. At least for the 6 getting steamrolled. At this point in time according to the definition of Harassment:

"Harassment is unwanted behavior which you find offensive or which makes you feel intimidated or humiliated."

Perma-Rolling someone because they won't join your alliance is "unwanted behavior that makes you feel intimidated" to join them. It's get perma-rolled or quit playing the game in their own little group. According to the rule: 

This is harassment that will lead to players quitting the game. Going 1 round in a 5v3 and crushing them is fair, it's "Politics AND War" after all. But hitting someone to beat them down just for the fun of it isn't right. Since the time beige has been removed several people have brought up this question of "What happens in the instance of a perma-roll?". Well the answer is simple. Alliances can beat down smaller groups into oblivion until they end up leaving the game.

I submit this report to attempt to have the second wave of attacks peaced out and a warning sent to Oceania Gov about this behavior. I also submit this report to attempt to have the rules explicitly say "Perma-Rolling" is against the rules to help protect small alliances of friends like FairyTail.

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

Seeing as how I'm one of the most accomplished micro slayers around, I'm going to weigh in here and say this a pathetic rules lawyering mods as weapon attempt to cover your own rampant incompetence at thinking you were capable of protecting anything.

Considering further that this stupid "inherent right to exist!" Crap you're going on about is typically enforced by actual proper alliances protecting these micros, which is how my more fortunate victims survived. Either they were deemed not to the standards of a proper alliance, or they lacked the sense to even approach one, both roads lead to this and it's perfectly reasonable and fine that they do.

This is a natural consequence of trying to do something one is not capable of doing. Most people are not capable of doing it, and it's infact already a bit of a problem that many established alliances pretend that's not the case because this game is not populus enough for every group of super casuals to found their own "guild" like this is Bofuri, without knowing how to build it up or operate or grow it. 

This is to say that, they should merge. If they prefer smaller alliances, this one is probably tied for first place with another current micro for best choices on that, otherwise with a more established alliance, to learn and prepare again. 

If not then, I'm afraid the sad truth pissing on your micro rights parade is that the game and it's player retention are better off without individuals who refuse to learn or grow and insist bullheadedly on this course. These are the people, well intentioned they may be, who create your United Alliance for Freedom's and your United Armies and other such entities who've only to boast about how many new players they've chewed up and spat on due to their utter incompetence and refusal to accept failure and head back to the drawing board. It's honestly not that hard to build even a half decent micro if they, or you, would bother to learn how.

This all before we point out your e lawyering here tries to set the precedent of basically banning raiders, ripper in particular, known for his crusades of vengeance, would be burnt publicly at the stake, naturally of course. 

Tl;Dr micros have no inherent right to exist, and the game would be better off if their formation and protection were more heavily regulated by majors. This reeks of you trying to compensate for your own incompetence and lack of ability or foresight, and in doing so trying to swing yet another hammer down on the heads of raiders dealt oh so many already by Alex over the years.

Diagnosis: being a pleb

Prescription: 2 500mg pills of Git Gud, taken orally every 12 hours.

[Wulfharth]

You could have reduced that entire nonsense into a few sentences relating the situation specifically to the game rules, but you chose to make moralisms and false dichotomies.

1 hour ago, Young Guilo said:

Perma-Rolling someone because they won't join your alliance is "unwanted behavior that makes you feel intimidated" to join them. It's get perma-rolled or quit playing the game in their own little group. According to the rule: 

This is harassment that will lead to players quitting the game.

Let’s be honest. This is the only part which matters in your argument, which contains a false dichotomy. No, they are not being coerced or encouraged to quit the game. They can easily leave their existing alliance and join ours or a different one to play without getting rolled - which is, part of the game. You know what else they could do? Call in their protector, Black Skies, led by you, to fight back. We have also posted a 300m ransom for these guys. There are a ton of options.

 (We are nearing 300m in damages now)

It truly is the act of a pessimist to say that their only recourse is to quit. Or the act of a salty someone who intends to “one-up” Oceania as a result of his damaged ego.

Moderation strike/ban? Pass.

[Atlan]

Ouch

[Carolus Rex]

An absolute bruh moment

[Alex]

While it nears a gray area, I don't think that their intent is to make you quit the game, and there certainly are plenty of options besides quitting (negotiating a peace, finding a protector alliance, obliging to their demands, joining a different alliance, merging with a different alliance, paying another alliance to attack your attackers, etc.) Therefore, I do not think this violates the rules.

[Havgle]

Lmao man is just salty he can’t use game mechanics to defend his prot, so he tries to use the Admin to do it for him

[Itachi]

This is awful and must be stopped! Truly deplorable behaviour! Here are my hopes and prayers. #JusticeForFairyTail

[Roger]

Why does it even matter 

If Fairy Tail want to exist then the have to face all challenges 

If they can’t do that then why are they (or their friends) complaining 

[Avatar Patrick]

 I agree with Alex's ruling because raider lives matter but at the same time I'd like to point out that this is just another instance of Akuryo showing an extremely elitist attitude. Having the rules of the game state that micros must grovel to the major powers in order to EXIST in the first place is completely messed up. What if an alliance is founded under the premise of surpassing the alliances at the top? Your suggestion would only ensure that the ones in power stay in power forever.

[Sir Scarfalot]

4 hours ago, Avatar Patrick said:

 I agree with Alex's ruling because raider lives matter but at the same time I'd like to point out that this is just another instance of Akuryo showing an extremely elitist attitude. Having the rules of the game state that micros must grovel to the major powers in order to EXIST in the first place is completely messed up. What if an alliance is founded under the premise of surpassing the alliances at the top? Your suggestion would only ensure that the ones in power stay in power forever.

If an alliance is founded with the idea of surpassing the alliances at the top, then they should therefore expect to compete with the major powers. Since that's their goal. If they can't handle that, then they weren't able to achieve it anyway.

Either they need to accept that it's an extremely long-term goal that they'll have to put intense effort and time into, and politically grovel in order to buy the time and space necessary to improve up to that tier, or they need to find a goal that they're willing to put the effort into achieving. After all, the established alliances got to where they are by long-term effort, so why should they take a dive? It'd completely undermine the value of the achievement if they didn't earn it.

[Avatar Patrick]

27 minutes ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

If an alliance is founded with the idea of surpassing the alliances at the top, then they should therefore expect to compete with the major powers. Since that's their goal. If they can't handle that, then they weren't able to achieve it anyway.

Either they need to accept that it's an extremely long-term goal that they'll have to put intense effort and time into, and politically grovel in order to buy the time and space necessary to improve up to that tier, or they need to find a goal that they're willing to put the effort into achieving. After all, the established alliances got to where they are by long-term effort, so why should they take a dive? It'd completely undermine the value of the achievement if they didn't earn it.

If micro alliances wish to form, they can. If they get rolled, so be it. But nobody will surpass major alliances no matter how much effort they put in if the major alliances LITERALLY write the rules of the game. If Akuryo's dream came true, mid tiers who get a little too close to his alliance in size could suddenly be denied a right to exist by a ruling. Why doesn't Alex play pnw? Because he would have too much of an unfair advantage even if he agreed to follow HIS rules.

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

1 hour ago, Avatar Patrick said:

If micro alliances wish to form, they can. If they get rolled, so be it. But nobody will surpass major alliances no matter how much effort they put in if the major alliances LITERALLY write the rules of the game. If Akuryo's dream came true, mid tiers who get a little too close to his alliance in size could suddenly be denied a right to exist by a ruling. Why doesn't Alex play pnw? Because he would have too much of an unfair advantage even if he agreed to follow HIS rules.

Under my rules middling alliances like House Stark and OWR and CoA would still exist. Dark brotherhood, RnR, United Armies as some examples would be ripped apart because of their repeated long term failures. This is a political simulator. If you do not hold political value you'll be discarded. All I'm actually lobbying for is a higher standard on what's minimal acceptable value.

The fact of the matter is if you made an alliance it'd become a poorly operated mediocre cesspool that doesn't contribute positively to the game. I know this because you display a clear inability to even understand the ideas being conveyed, ideas informed by experience of being the rare micro to survive and upgrade it's rarity tier. If you cannot understand ideas informed by this experience, regardless of any agreement or lack thereof with them, you will lack the ability to understand how to go about achieving success yourself.

Just because you and so many others have the dreams but lack the skill or fortitude to achieve them does not mean everyone else should be responsible for holding your hand, particularly when it frankly, does neither them, nor anyone else, any good. 

[Kevanovia]

6 hours ago, Avatar Patrick said:

If micro alliances wish to form, they can. If they get rolled, so be it. But nobody will surpass major alliances no matter how much effort they put in if the major alliances LITERALLY write the rules of the game. If Akuryo's dream came true, mid tiers who get a little too close to his alliance in size could suddenly be denied a right to exist by a ruling. Why doesn't Alex play pnw? Because he would have too much of an unfair advantage even if he agreed to follow HIS rules.

Work your way up as an alliance by making smart moves. I made an alliance a year ago and it is now one of the major political players (Soup Kitchen/Children of the Light) so your “point” proves to be a poor one.

[Zed]

On 8/22/2020 at 1:34 AM, Akuryo said:

Under my rules middling alliances like House Stark and OWR and CoA would still exist. Dark brotherhood, RnR, United Armies as some examples would be ripped apart because of their repeated long term failures. This is a political simulator. If you do not hold political value you'll be discarded. All I'm actually lobbying for is a higher standard on what's minimal acceptable value.

The fact of the matter is if {most people who decide it is a good idea to make micros} it'd become a poorly operated mediocre cesspool that doesn't contribute positively to the game. If you cannot understand ideas informed by this experience, regardless of any agreement or lack thereof with them, you will lack the ability to understand how to go about achieving success yourself.

 

I'm just quoting this post to also emphasize the point, in support of its statements regarding most micro alliances in this game.

[Sketchy]

On 8/22/2020 at 5:05 PM, Avatar Patrick said:

If micro alliances wish to form, they can. If they get rolled, so be it. But nobody will surpass major alliances no matter how much effort they put in if the major alliances LITERALLY write the rules of the game.

The failure of micros has little to do with the rules and everything to do with the mechanics of the game and the general incompetence of the people leading them.

The correct and only consistent path to success is by joining an established alliance, using it to learn the game, to grow, to gain experience, and to develop a network of people who you can then take to form your alliance, or taking over said established alliance yourself.

This has nothing to do with established rules. If this game had no rules at all, the naturally forming scenario would still be the complete destruction of incompetent micros.

You can complain all you like about there not being protections for smaller alliances established in the rules, but the reality is, the major alliances, and the handful of people who run them, generate the vast majority of content in this game, are in most cases the ones ensuring there is some level of player retention, and the ones teaching the most new players how to play the game.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

On 8/22/2020 at 3:05 AM, Avatar Patrick said:

If micro alliances wish to form, they can. If they get rolled, so be it. But nobody will surpass major alliances no matter how much effort they put in if the major alliances LITERALLY write the rules of the game.

Out of the top ten alliances only 1 is a day one alliance.  Which means every single alliance has had to start from scratch and build themselves up.  I say this as the leader of an alliance that worked its way into the top 10 alliances in the game, and in my opinion is currently the best alliance in the game.

How did Grumpy do it? We used existing relationships to start an alliance of about 5-8 people, got protection from one of the largest alliances in the game so that we could grow without getting destroyed, and there were people out there that wanted to absolutely roll us, whats up the 37th version of Test at the time.   Then by adhering to a strict vision of how I wanted my alliance to run, we have been able to grow and become one of the most feared alliances in the game.  This didn't happen in 3 weeks tho, this took like 2-3 years.

[Avatar Patrick]

13 hours ago, Sketchy said:

The failure of micros has little to do with the rules and everything to do with the mechanics of the game and the general incompetence of the people leading them.

The correct and only consistent path to success is by joining an established alliance, using it to learn the game, to grow, to gain experience, and to develop a network of people who you can then take to form your alliance, or taking over said established alliance yourself.

This has nothing to do with established rules. If this game had no rules at all, the naturally forming scenario would still be the complete destruction of incompetent micros.

You can complain all you like about there not being protections for smaller alliances established in the rules, but the reality is, the major alliances, and the handful of people who run them, generate the vast majority of content in this game, are in most cases the ones ensuring there is some level of player retention, and the ones teaching the most new players how to play the game.

I wasn't saying that micros should be protected or catered to in the rules. Only that they should not be mentioned at all in the rules. They have just as much a right to try to make one and test the waters as you do to roll them.

[Carnotaurus]

lol our alliance FairyTail merged with another alliance, ok. It was not against the rules, and I am saying that as I was once a FairyTail member.

 

To be fair tough, I wasn't around when the attacks happened

Edited September 18, 2020 by Carnotaurus