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Is there any fascist alliance in politicsandwar?


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16 hours ago, Thalmor said:

Do you make a distinction between fascism and nationalism? Additionally, can a nation act in a way that can be interpreted as nationalistic but still be morally acceptable? Not interested in arguing, just wanting to pick at your brain.

Isn't this okay though? I find 'third way' economics appealing. Communism has a shitty track record historically, and I'm strongly disillusioned with the state of corporate control, power, greed, and influence here in the United States. Seems like with a 'fascist' economy, you can get the best of both worlds: Free market playgrounds for the best of the best to succeed, and the economy exists only to serve the people (unlike now in the US, where it seems people exist to serve the economy). 

Perhaps I'm ignorant and don't know what I'm talking about. Again, I don't want to argue. I know these things are hard to talk about. 

You are pretty much hitting the nail on the head with how a lot of people feel regarding the "dictatorship of capital" within the modern world.The current pandemic has made the issues of inequality inherent within capitalism readily evident along with capitalism itself being unsuited to fighting the pandemic effectively. Nothing illustrates this better than Vietnam's response to handling the virus which arguably can be considered the best globally upon viewing their infection and death rates. Vietnam itself isn't the wealthest country either which only illustrates the flaws inherent within capitalism even further.

That being said, looking to fascism for economic inspiration isn't really advisable either given the state of fascist economies before and during WWII. It's one of these modern myths that the German economy was efficient when the truth is quite the opposite.Communism itself is a flawed economic concept but I believe the better option can be found somewhere in between within the socialist/democratic socialist spectrum or perhaps within the Nordic model.

Edited by Charles Bolivar

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4 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

You are pretty much hitting the nail on the head with how a lot of people feel regarding the "dictatorship of capital" within the modern world.The current pandemic has made the issues of inequality inherent within capitalism readily evident along with capitalism itself being unsuited to fighting the pandemic effectively. Nothing illustrates this better than Vietnam's response to handling the virus which arguably can be considered the best globally upon viewing their infection and death rates. Vietnam itself isn't the wealthest country either which only illustrates the flaws inherent within capitalism even further.

Actually, north Korea does not have even a single Coronavirus case officially, but do you really can trust the reports coming from countries which news are censored systemically (China, Vietnam and north Korea)? Countries like Singapore or Taiwan are better examples for how to handle Covid19.

4 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

That being said, looking to fascism for economic inspiration isn't really advisable either given the state of fascist economies before and during WWII. It's one of these modern myths that the German economy was efficient when the truth is quite the opposite.Communism itself is a flawed economic concept but I believe the better option can be found somewhere in between within the socialist/democratic socialist spectrum or perhaps within the Nordic model.

Usually, fascist states act economically good,  you can refer to the Spanish economic miracle during Franco's reign or high economy growth during Pinochet's Chile,  Salazar's Portugal, Suharto's Indonesia and some similar right-wing authoritarian regimes. If the economy of Germany before  WW2 wasn't efficient, after the defeat in WW1, hyperinflation and great depression, how could it handle a world war with many great powers and have a upper hand till 1942?

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5 hours ago, Francoist said:

The chapter one:The Establishment of Civilization in the first volume of The Story of Civilization, is mainly about pre-history. Check it out before you make a troll out of yourself.

The other book was cited for the other stuff that I said about communism.

Okay so 330 BC = Prehistoric times. Good to know.🤷‍♂️

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10 minutes ago, PhantomThiefB said:

Okay so 330 BC = Prehistoric times. Good to know.🤷‍♂️

Content of the first chapter, "The Establishment of Civilization" in  volume 1:

1- The Conditions of Civilization

2- The Economic Elements of Civilization

3- The Political Elements of Civilization

4- The Moral Elements of Civilization

5- The Mental Elements of Civilization

6- The Prehistoric Beginnings of Civilization

The first 5 sections are also mainly about primitive tribes and pre-history.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Civilization

Congrats I can check Wiki too.

"This volume covers Near Eastern history until the fall of the Achaemenid Empire in the 330s BC, and the history of India, China, and Japan up to the 1930s."

By definition Pre-historic means before written history.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/prehistoric#:~:text=adjective,dinosaur is a prehistoric beast.&text=outdated%3B passé%3A My mom has,prehistoric ideas about proper dress.

 

Edited by PhantomThiefB

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Just now, PhantomThiefB said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Civilization

Congrats I can check Wiki too.

"This volume covers Near Eastern history until the fall of the Achaemenid Empire in the 330s BC, and the history of India, China, and Japan up to the 1930s."

Unfortunately, you are unable to even understand a simple sentence or even do a simple search.  Till 330 BC, it does not begin from 330 BC. Check the content of first chapter "6- The Prehistoric Beginnings of Civilization", other sections are also about pre-history as well in chapter one.

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21 minutes ago, Chief Wiggum said:

Maybe I am missing something, but I am inclined to move this topic under the General Debate category.

If there are any objections, let me know.

The main topic of this thread is about the presence of fascist alliances in the game, but some people started an off-topic discussion (since it is about politics and the game is political maybe it is still related to the game). Anyway, part of the thread is still about the game. In the end, it is your decision, I don't object to any decision that you make.

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12 minutes ago, R Johnson said:

I might suggest spam or create a new forum for rerolls who are trolling.

Why is it a spam? Because there are stuff here that you don't understand or like, it is a spam? The game is about politics, the game creator said fascism is allowed in the game, I saw all these communist alliances, and asked if there are any fascist alliance as well.

Troll is somebody who post unrelated stuff to be annoying. Something like your post.

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15 hours ago, Francoist said:

Some people called me a troll in this thread, look who really is a classic troll. I cited "The Story of Civilization by Will Durant" and "The End of the Cold War by David Pietrusza". You didn't even try to read my posts (I know it is hard for you to read long texts), so I'm quite sure you have never heard of these books.

All you did was namedrop, you didn't cite shit.

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Why is this still going on. @Francoist You ain't gonna change their opinion and @Sir Scarfalot you won't change his.

Good god what is this argument even over anymore? This thread was a simple question from a new player who didn't know much about the game and it has degenerated into a shit throwing contest.

Get over yourselves, will ya?

Edited by Corpsman

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10 hours ago, Francoist said:

Actually, north Korea does not have even a single Coronavirus case officially, but do you really can trust the reports coming from countries which news are censored systemically (China, Vietnam and north Korea)? Countries like Singapore or Taiwan are better examples for how to handle Covid19.

Usually, fascist states act economically good,  you can refer to the Spanish economic miracle during Franco's reign or high economy growth during Pinochet's Chile,  Salazar's Portugal, Suharto's Indonesia and some similar right-wing authoritarian regimes. If the economy of Germany before  WW2 wasn't efficient, after the defeat in WW1, hyperinflation and great depression, how could it handle a world war with many great powers and have a upper hand till 1942?

Vietnam has been rigorously checked by health authorities and has been very open about allowing their records to be examined. If you actually bother to do some research on the matter you will quickly see why they have attained a better result than every other country on earth. Vietnam implemented border control, lockdowns, quarantine measures and large scale testing from mid January whilst most western countries didn't adopt any of these measures until mid March or even later (The US still hasn't). Vietnam took a strong proactive approach to the virus from day one and it has paid off handsomely. As a result of this , they were able to lessen restrictions back in May and have achieved some semblance of normality over the past few months.

Granted they have more "control" over their citizens and the economy as a whole, but it does illustrate the flaws of capitalism's reliance upon a consumer based economy when in situations like we are currently facing, having people out shopping is the last thing we want.

Plus Singapore was an early success but that rapidly changed back in mid April. So yeah , if you want a south east Asian success story it's Vietnam.

Edited by Charles Bolivar

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2 minutes ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Vietnam has been rigorously checked by health authorities and has been very open about allowing their records to be examined. If you actually bother to do some research on the matter you will quickly see why they have attained a better result than every other country on earth. Vietnam implemented border control, lockdowns, quarantine measures and large scale testing from mid January whilst most western countries didn't adopt any of these measures until mid March or even later (The US still hasn't). Vietnam took a strong proactive approach to the virus from day one and it has paid off handsomely. As a result of this , they were able to lessen restrictions back in May and have achieved some semblance of normality over the past few months.

Granted they have more "control" over their citizens and the economy as a whole, but it does illustrate the flaws of capitalism's reliance upon a consumer based economy when in situations like we are currently facing, having people out shopping is the last thing we want.

Plus Singapore was an early success but that rapidly changed back in mid April. So yeah , if you want a south east Asian success story it's Vietnam.

Yet Vietnam still denies the torture on American POWs. Playing devils advocate here.

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10 hours ago, Francoist said:

Actually, north Korea does not have even a single Coronavirus case officially, but do you really can trust the reports coming from countries which news are censored systemically (China, Vietnam and north Korea)? Countries like Singapore or Taiwan are better examples for how to handle Covid19.

Usually, fascist states act economically good,  you can refer to the Spanish economic miracle during Franco's reign or high economy growth during Pinochet's Chile,  Salazar's Portugal, Suharto's Indonesia and some similar right-wing authoritarian regimes. If the economy of Germany before  WW2 wasn't efficient, after the defeat in WW1, hyperinflation and great depression, how could it handle a world war with many great powers and have a upper hand till 1942?

Germany never stood a chance in WW2 to be honest, the seeds of its defeat were planted in 1939 and even their own economic advisors knew they had went to war too early. The general plan was for Germany to go to war in I believe it was 1941/1942 when Germany was economically more prepared. Even from early on during the French campaign and the later African campaigns it was readily evident that supplies were a major issues. Their early success in Russia even can be ascribed to the effects of Stalin's purges amongst the military establishment than a superior Wehrmacht.

The truth of the matter is the Wehrmacht fought inadequate foes who were not prepared for a war. The early successes certainly had nothing to do with a superior German economy. It's no surprise that when the greater economic and manufacturing capability of the US entered the war that it was game over for Germany.

7 minutes ago, Corpsman said:

Yet Vietnam still denies the torture on American POWs. Playing devils advocate here.

No one is perfect 🤷‍♂️ Name a country which hasn't done heinous crap and tried to cover it up? It isn't like the US has never tortured anyone either by the way either including during the Vietnam war too.

Edited by Charles Bolivar

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4 minutes ago, Charles Bolivar said:

No one is perfect 🤷‍♂️ Name a country which hasn't done heinous crap and tried to cover it up? It isn't like the US has never tortured anyone either by the way either including during the Vietnam war too.

Well you can't really talk badly about fascist countries then.

Edited by Corpsman
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9 minutes ago, Corpsman said:

Well you can't really talk badly about fascist countries then.

Well the topic was more so Vietnam's response to the pandemic highlighting flaws of capitalism and fascist economies which led to you bringing up PoW treatment which is irrelevant to the topic of fascism.

But sure I can say bad things about fascist countries. Israel would likely back me up on that one too I suppose.

Edited by Charles Bolivar

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5 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Vietnam has been rigorously checked by health authorities and has been very open about allowing their records to be examined. If you actually bother to do some research on the matter you will quickly see why they have attained a better result than every other country on earth. Vietnam implemented border control, lockdowns, quarantine measures and large scale testing from mid January whilst most western countries didn't adopt any of these measures until mid March or even later (The US still hasn't). Vietnam took a strong proactive approach to the virus from day one and it has paid off handsomely. As a result of this , they were able to lessen restrictions back in May and have achieved some semblance of normality over the past few months.

If by health authorities you mean WHO, well their credibility is questioned because of their delay to declare Corona a pandemic or their close ties with China or how they said that wearing mask does not have any effect in preventing Covid19 and then they changed their mind completely.  I am quite sure these health authorities can only go to some places that Vietnamese officials want and they do not have access all over the country.

5 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Granted they have more "control" over their citizens and the economy as a whole, but it does illustrate the flaws of capitalism's reliance upon a consumer based economy when in situations like we are currently facing, having people out shopping is the last thing we want.

Plus Singapore was an early success but that rapidly changed back in mid April. So yeah , if you want a south east Asian success story it's Vietnam.

There is no trace of communism in the economies of Vietnam and China anymore. Their economy is quite capitalistic, that is why many western companies go to these countries to establish factories, workers in Vietnam and China are quite cheap and do not enjoy the social benefits of a western worker, also all unions are state controlled, so you can say that capitalism is even stronger in Vietnam and China in comparison to western countries.

Still, I think Taiwan and Singapore are more credible good examples than Vietnam. 

5 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Germany never stood a chance in WW2 to be honest, the seeds of its defeat were planted in 1939 and even their own economic advisors knew they had went to war too early. The general plan was for Germany to go to war in I believe it was 1941/1942 when Germany was economically more prepared. Even from early on during the French campaign and the later African campaigns it was readily evident that supplies were a major issues. Their early success in Russia even can be ascribed to the effects of Stalin's purges amongst the military establishment than a superior Wehrmacht.

You are right that they planned to enter war around 1941-1942, but the key element is to make sure that the war does not become attritional, since foes of Germany had lots of more human and material resources than Germany. The eastern front become attritional and that is why Germany lost the war. Some strategical mistakes also contributed to Germany's defeat such as going after Stalingrad and Baku oilfields instead of capturing Moscow (well Napoleon captured it but still couldn't win the war, but nevertheless it is a heavy, strategic and moral below) or letting Italy enter the war and become a heavy burden for Germany. While Stalin's purges hurt soviets, but Soviet union still retained some skilled generals like Zhukov and Konstantin Rokossovsky, also Stalin had several skilled army in eastern part of country which he pulled them back later to fight Germans. There is no doubt that soviets showed lots of bravery and heavy resistance.

5 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

The truth of the matter is the Wehrmacht fought inadequate foes who were not prepared for a war. The early successes certainly had nothing to do with a superior German economy. It's no surprise that when the greater economic and manufacturing capability of the US entered the war that it was game over for Germany.

Foes of Germany had much larger empires than Germany,  you can't fight these empires with an inefficient economy. British army was quite prepared, too. French and British armies even had superior tanks. But they couldn't stop Germany in France. They had lots of trouble handling Rommel's small army in north Africa while they enjoyed total material superiority. Even when more than 70 percent of German army was fighting in eastern front and only less than 30 percent was available in the western side, the battle-hardened allied forces was faced with a major challenge in France and Italy. They also get defeated in operation Market Garden and the initial phase of Battle of bulge, their advance in Italy was stopped until last phase of WW2.

5 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Well the topic was more so Vietnam's response to the pandemic highlighting flaws of capitalism and fascist economies which led to you bringing up PoW treatment which is irrelevant to the topic of fascism.

But sure I can say bad things about fascist countries. Israel would likely back me up on that one too I suppose.

As I said before, the economy of Vietnam is quite capitalistic. It is not a good example to show the flaws of capitalism

Edited by Francoist
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On 7/13/2020 at 3:10 AM, Francoist said:

Just curious, there are losts of communist alliances, but couldn't find anything fascist using search.

 

Btw, the game creator stated that fascism is not banned in the game:

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/topic/26981-strong-political-slurs/&tab=comments#comment-433368

Fascism isn't banned, Nazism is banned. And people generally do not like fascist alliances in this game but it really depends on who is your friend and who isn't. Big Brother always laser beam focuses on shouting down anything to do with fascism, he has been doing it for years, so you can just ignore him. Many people in this game have WWII themed nations, alliances are just more easily visible.

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36 minutes ago, Mayor said:

Fascism isn't banned, Nazism is banned. And people generally do not like fascist alliances in this game but it really depends on who is your friend and who isn't. Big Brother always laser beam focuses on shouting down anything to do with fascism, he has been doing it for years, so you can just ignore him. Many people in this game have WWII themed nations, alliances are just more easily visible.

In other games like Cybernations and Nationstates, I can easily find alliances with a fascist or a nationalist theme. I don't know what happened here that there are only communist or socialist alliances, I read on the forums that they even posted ads with a Stalin photo. There exist nations with a nationalist theme, but they are scattered.

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