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New Spy "Attack" [Beige Mechanic addition]


Prefontaine
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10 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

With Beige gone, it is possible to permanently hold down a nation forever in blockades without them having the resources to fight back (it was still possible before too just not -as- easy). This new spy attack is to slip blockades and supply a blockaded nation.

What it does:

  • A nation can send spies into another nation which is blockaded and supply up to $25,000,000 and up to 10,000 total of resources (ex: 5,000 gas and 5,000 ammo) to a nation. 
  • The difficulty of this mission is determined by the number of nations blockading the target nation. Each nation blockading adds a 15% chance of getting caught, to a maximum of 55%. So one nation blockading gives you 85% odds of success, 2 gives a 70% chance of success, 3 gives a 55% of success, and anything above 3 gives you a 45% of success as you reach the cap. 
  • If your spy "attack" is caught, you have a chance of being discovered. Your spies have a chance of being killed. Your resources get split among the nations blockading your target nation. 

 

The numbers are very much open to discussion.

  • Should the amount of money/resources be based on the number of cities the target nation has?
  • Should anyone be able to send this "attack" to anyone? No score range needed. 
  • Should the chance of getting caught be done differently, or have different odds?
  • Other input?

So basically if the spy operation succeeds you successfully aid your ally, or it fails and you aid opponents? I feel like the risk of failing and actually aiding and advancing opponents is just too penalising to make this operation appealing. I would instead suggest failed operations simply result in losing the aid (deleted), and the blockading nations getting notified of successfully thwarting the operation.

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I like the idea, but I agree that the risk of aiding your enemy is too high.

In terms of balance, maybe a better solution would be to have some smuggling cap which increases every turn you are blockaded (and decreases every turn you aren't). That way blockades are initially very successful, but become less so the longer a nation is being held down. 

And justify this as being "realistic" (not that this game is realistic otherwise) as smugglers learning the schedules and such of the blockaders and thus how to bypass them. Like how initially alcohol prohibition was somewhat effective, and then wasn't. (drugs are a bad substitute for weapons, but it's the first thing I could find)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum-running

Edited by Borg
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This would only be used in perma-rolls of large alliances in wars and doesn't do anything to help smaller players, and even then, it's minimally useful at best and a detriment at worst. I think the broken state of the game with no beige needs a replacement or a revert back to how it was, not a piece of cardboard slapped over it to pretend it's working.

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The amount of spies and espionage caution should effect the odds of breaking the blockade, like other espionage attacks. It would be easier if it just got rid of the blockade until another naval attack is done.

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8 minutes ago, Menace said:

The amount of spies and espionage caution should effect the odds of breaking the blockade, like other espionage attacks. It would be easier if it just got rid of the blockade until another naval attack is done.

An espionage mission to break a blockade would actually be better idea, I think. Not as a solution to the current issue, but just a thing to add after it's resolved somehow, if it's balanced properly.

Edited by Nadya Iwakura
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3 minutes ago, Nadya Iwakura said:

An espionage mission to break a blockade would actually be better idea, I think. Not as a solution to the current issue, but just a thing to add after it's resolved somehow, if it's balanced properly.

If they're blockaded by multiple people, would each blockading nation need to be hit with this attack? 

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2 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

If they're blockaded by multiple people, would each blockading nation need to be hit with this attack? 

Yes, but the attack would also break all the blockades done by the attacked nation. So if you are blockaded by 2 nations, you need to do a successful attack on each one to trade again. If the attacked nation has 2 blockades on opponents, both of his blockades get broken when a successful attack is done.

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2 minutes ago, Menace said:

Yes, but the attack would also break all the blockades done by the attacked nation. So if you are blockaded by 2 nations, you need to do a successful attack on each one to trade again. If the attacked nation has 2 blockades on opponents, both of his blockades get broken when a successful attack is done.

Wait, so if one person has 3 blockades on different nations, and you perform this attack is breaks all three blockades? I think that's a little two powerful, that's removing the benefit of 12 maps with of actions to get the blockades. Seems that each op should be focused on removing a blockade from 1 person to 1 person. Makes a bit more sense to that your operation is impacting multiple nations at the same time.

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10 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

Wait, so if one person has 3 blockades on different nations, and you perform this attack is breaks all three blockades? I think that's a little two powerful, that's removing the benefit of 12 maps with of actions to get the blockades. Seems that each op should be focused on removing a blockade from 1 person to 1 person. Makes a bit more sense to that your operation is impacting multiple nations at the same time.

Maybe make it more difficult based on the number of blockades like you suggested originally. So the odds could be like the current system, but instead of dividing the odds by the type of attack only, it could be divided by the amount of blockades that could be broken also. So something like odds divided by 3 for 1 blockade, adding 0.5 for each additional blockade after to divide the odds of success. If this is too easy or hard, just change the amount dividing the odds.

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You can have all the resources you want and still be unable to rebuild. If several nations relentlessly pin the target down and reslot as soon as they defeat the target, there's no way the target can rebuild unless they get beiged when they lose. I fail to see how you think that having no chance of recovery is better than allowing strategic beiging because that's the end result when you implement this change with no replacement. By strategic beiging I mean attackers try to resist beiging defenders and defenders try to goad them into it. I'm not condoning slot filling.

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22 minutes ago, Avatar Patrick said:

You can have all the resources you want and still be unable to rebuild. If several nations relentlessly pin the target down and reslot as soon as they defeat the target, there's no way the target can rebuild unless they get beiged when they lose.

 

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Based on input, I have refined this concept:

New Spy “Attack” - Blockade Breaking

 

  1. Nations can send spies into another nation which is blockaded and supply that nation with up to $1,000,000 per city and up to 1,000 resources per city. These resources may be more than one resource type, but are limited to a maximum totaling 1,000 per city.

  2. The difficulty of the mission is determined by the number of blockades against the nation. 

    1. If the nation is blockaded by 1 nation, the odds of success are 90%

    2. If the nation is blockaded by 2 nations, the odds of success are 80%

    3. If the nation is blockaded by 3 nations, the odds of success are 70%

    4. If the nation is blockaded by 4+ nations, the odds of success are 55%

  3. If the mission fails, 

    1. there is a high chance the nation sending the attack is revealed. 

    2. There is a chance that spies are killed in the nation sending the attack

    3. Each nation blockaded receives 5% of the resources/money which were lost.

  4. If the mission succeeds, there is 10% chance all blockades are broken against this nation.

  5. If no resources are sent, then the attack is to attempt to lift the blockades against the target nation. In this even there is a 20% chance of success.

 

Please continue providing feedback on these numbers, concepts. These spy attacks do not impact a target nations spy attacks received. These attacks only impact the number of attacks launched by the player attempting to subvert the blockade.

Edit: Odds are based off of sending a certain number of spies, Probably 45+. Still being ironed out. 

 

Edited by Prefontaine
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