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War Slot Filling

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That's clearly slot filling

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I'd also just like to add that both nations rejoined The Hanseatic League almost immediately after leaving and attacking Florence, presumably so they could circumvent the protectorate treaty and avoid being attacked by others. 

Additionally, Dillon was using the bare minimum amount of soldiers needed to achieve an immense triumph (evidenced by the fact that he didn't send enough soldiers to get an immense triumph twice) to cause as little damage as possible. 

Report1.PNG

Report2.PNG

Report3.PNG

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Posted (edited)

Interesting...

Edited by Deulos

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sphinx said:

If the screenshot is unrelated to the Medici situation why did you choose to include it?

Bharat country attacked Opros after attacking florence, and I was under the assumption that you authorized the latter (since that's what I was told by tHL leader). Given that they left and rejoined the alliance in the span of minutes, I assumed it was coordinated in the same breath.
Though by your own screenshot, you both were there helping Ironfirst with his attacks, so we've established that you were involved in coordinating the "filling of slots" anyway. 

Question is just whether it constitutes war slot filling. If I misunderstood the rules, that's my bad.

2 hours ago, Sphinx said:

which is a pretty clear case of moderation as a weapon

Not sure how you get there. "Moderation as a Weapon is threatening to report another player to an Administrator or Moderator unless they comply with your request or demands."
I never threatened to report you, or made any demands. I just saw what I thought to be slot filling, and reported it on the forums. (up to alex if it actually is)

2 hours ago, Sphinx said:

it says nothing about not being able to raid allies

tHC is basically an extension of tCW, so it's attacking your own member. If you wanted to raid Florence, why was the declaration message "wake up bud"?
Don't you get more loot from ground attacks with soldiers than you do from having those slots be e.g. farms?

1 hour ago, Mr. Goober said:

Why go mill up to 5/5/5/3 and waste tens of millions on milling up, when you can just attack with a few thousand soldiers?

It was like 1 barracks (with a double rebuy). Who raids at c25 with only 1 barracks???. You make loot from ground attacks, using soldiers, more so than you would having those slots being used for e.g. farms. So someone with the goal of maximizing profit would have maxed barracks instead of the bare minimum for an immense triumph. 

You definitely don't need to max ships and tanks against someone who has none, I agree.

1 hour ago, Mr. Goober said:

why not allow other pirates to beige said target?

because if the goal is to keep the money in the alliance, letting pirates raid Florence is the opposite of that??

 

Edited by Borg
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Posted (edited)

 

52 minutes ago, LukeTP said:

Opros, who is the only point of comparison for this set of wars, clearly was fighting the war with a much lower % of their daily rebuy
 Opros has surely broken the same rules (and more severely) yet has not been punished?

Opros had low military from three defensive wars and wasn't in HL attacking another member of (basically) the same alliance. 

52 minutes ago, LukeTP said:

Error 404 (Borg's alliance) and The Commonwealth have been in a dispute for some time, and this report was only submitted three days after the relevant wars ended, and the resolution of the dispute was clearly not to Borg's liking.

I reported it when I saw it, as is my obligation. (since I thought it constituted war slot filling), and things resolved relatively peacefully, which was presumably in both our interests. 

25 minutes ago, Mr. Goober said:

Plus, it is a lot easier to switch one mine to a barrack, than do that to all of em

I guess, but... https://politicsandwar.com/city/improvements/bulk-import/ is easy enough.

25 minutes ago, Mr. Goober said:

wait 3 days to max soldiers to get max profit. 

A single day's rebuy is enough to justify the barracks. 10 ground attacks lasts 2 days (and thus two rebuys), so therefore it should always be worth it. 

25 minutes ago, Mr. Goober said:

As a raider, I'd expect you to know this, Borg. 

As a raider, I max soldiers and don't skimp on my barracks. Can't say that I've done much max tank no soldier raiding. Or no tank, 1 barracks raiding. 

Anywho, for Bharat country, this boils down to whether alliances should be able to attack their own inactive members without removing them first.

Edited by Borg
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I unironically reported this 2 days ago and it has been called not slotfilling

So yes, this thread can be closed

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7 minutes ago, Borg said:

Again, it is still easier to switch that one barrack, and not to mention costs less. 

 

9 minutes ago, Borg said:

A single day's rebuy is enough to justify the barracks. 10 ground attacks lasts 2 days (and thus two rebuys), so therefore it should always be worth it. 

As a raider, I max soldiers and don't skimp on my barracks. Can't say that I've done much max tank no soldier raiding. Or no tank, 1 barracks raiding. 

Sure, a few ground attacks probably get you enough to recoup ur losses on switching the barracks. But then come in the economic factors. 

Regardless, this is hardly a moot point. Alex just needs to remove those strikes. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Mr. Goober said:

Again, it is still easier to switch that one barrack

I'm guessing that's why IronFist "raided" with turtle? Getting an extra ~77M worth of loot by switching is hardly worth the effort?
Though I would think it's easier removing a member to raid them than it is to have two members leave and rejoin. 

Edited by Borg
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14 hours ago, Alex said:

I'd agree this is war slot filling, thanks for the report.

In this context, these nations are probable allies, and these wars fall under what I would consider "sending attacks with minimal units to appear to be fighting a war."

These were both Raid wars, so if the attackers' true intent was to steal as much loot as possible, they wouldn't have sent such minimal units. Just because they fought the wars to completion does not mean that it can't be war slot filling - it seems clear that the intent was to fill the slots to protect the nation from being attacked, and then give them beige time to continue to be invulnerable to new declarations.

I will issue moderation strikes against the two nations that committed the war slot filling violations.

EDIT: Also a reminder that this is a no discussion forum, and I've already issued some warning points to offenders in this thread.

Alex, you told me literally yesterday this isnt slotfilling
WTF are you doing now?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Borg said:

I'm guessing that's why IronFist "raided" with turtle? Getting an extra ~77M worth of loot by switching is hardly worth the effort?
Though I would think it's easier removing a member to raid them than it is to have two members leave and rejoin. 

I mean, I wouldn’t doubt that he just wasn’t playing optimally not on purpose.

Reasoning being Turtle is a bad base policy to be on in the first place and he initially didn’t know that base population provides a small military ground score. With that said I don’t think this point is very valid or else you’d just be setting a precedent for punishing players for being unknowledgeable. I’ve seen many people do stupid raids with bad policy etc, but can’t really accuse them of slot filling for that reason.

EDIT: Actually it may come down to context for not playing optimally now that I think about it more. In this case probably not on purpose though.

Also if Shadow really reported it before and it wasn’t slot filling and then Borg reported it and it was deemed slot filling.... I hope it isn’t true as that makes me worried.

Edited by KingGhost
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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, KingGhost said:

With that said I don’t think this point is very valid or else you’d just be setting a precedent for punishing players for being unknowledgeable. I’ve seen many people do stupid raids with bad policy etc, but can’t really accuse them of slot filling for that reason.

Nah, my point there was just questioning Goober's broken logic that sound economic / raiding practices explain it. Making dumb mistakes is a much better justification. 
If that's the only requirement of slot filling, then yeah, I agree. My thoughts when reporting were that I didn't think it was allowed to attack your own members.

Edited by Borg
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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, LukeTP said:

 

Alex... if this is true, I am extremely concerned as if you have had the same thing reported to you by two people, one being a random member of the community, and one being a member of your QA/API team; and you make the decision that the report by the random member of the community is unfounded, yet the report by a member of your QA/API team is correct and justified; things no longer become about whether someone has broken the rules, and more about who is reporting a rule breach which is a very sad state of affairs.

The quotes from AntMan lead further evidence to support my point quoted below.

This needs to be cleared up now...

@Dr Rush and @Lossi can testify that I did make a report via discord and that it was ruled that these wars arent war slot-filling(ticket 938 possibly)
The thing however is what he said, that depending on who makes the report, the same issue can be viewed with bias.

I am not asking you to reverse your decisions but please make decisions in agreement with your previous decisions.

Edited by AntMan
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2 minutes ago, AntMan said:

>snip>
The thing however is what he said, that depending on who makes the report, the same issue can be viewed with bias.
<snip>

There should be no bias in moderation decisions, end of story.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Borg said:

Nah, my point there was just questioning Goober's broken logic that sound economic / raiding practices explain it. Making dumb mistakes is a much better justification. 
If that's the only requirement of slot filling, then yeah, I agree. My thoughts when reporting were that I didn't think it was allowed to attack your own members.

People can obviously be sound in some areas and forget in some other areas... Not everyone is a perfect raider and never makes mistakes. I am sure most people in this game have forgotten to change war policies before a real war atleast once. Plus changing all to barracks for two days means losing two days worth of resource production for a little bit more loot in ground attacks. Depending on the nation, that might be unprofitable.

Second...people have attacked their own members since the game started. It is just smarter to raid your own member and keep the money you granted them rather than kick them out and have the resources on them raided by someone not in your alliance. This is all very logical stuff you know to be true :,)

Edited by evilpiggyfoofoo
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Posted (edited)

Borg is Fake News!

 

Edited by Reg Penney
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