Changing Ground Control and Nerfing Airstrikes on Tanks

[Alex]

This change was actually tested on the test server some time ago, but I'm bringing it back up for reconsideration.

The idea is to make ground units a counter to aircraft, which are currently all-powerful.

First, this would nerf airstrikes on tanks so that Aircraft aren't particularly effective against ground forces.

Next, it would change Ground Control such that if you have it, instead of grounding a portion of your oppponent's airforce, each successful ground attack with ground control would destroy 1, 3, or 5% of their aircraft based on the victory type. (e.g. Immense Triumph destroys 5% of your opponent's aircraft.)

This gives people a way to counter aircraft, whereas currently the only counter is essentially more aircraft.

If you like this suggestion, please upvote this topic. If you don't, please post a comment below letting me know what you think.

[Dryad]

I think this could be good if only tanks could destroy the aircraft. If soldiers could do it then it would be too strong, because soldiers are dirt cheap and it would be kinda crazy if they could destroy aircraft. I would rather not see more reasons to increase soldier cost further

[Alex]

4 minutes ago, Dryad said:

I think this could be good if only tanks could destroy the aircraft. If soldiers could do it then it would be too strong, because soldiers are dirt cheap and it would be kinda crazy if they could destroy aircraft. I would rather not see more reasons to increase soldier cost further

I think that seems reasonable and makes sense logically.

It would be relatively straightforward to calculate a rate of Aircraft destruction based on the number of Tanks sent and the victory type.

For example, if we assume max units in comparable nations we'd have 250 Tanks per 18 enemy Aircraft.

To calculate how many Aircraft each Tank gets to destroy, let's assume we're thinking of the 5% target in the OP:

250 * X = 18 * 0.05

Solving for X yields 0.0036, that is each Tank can destroy 0.0036 Aircraft in an immense triumph.

For Moderate Success (3%) and Pyrrhic Victory (1%) that's 0.00216 and 0.00072 respectively.

[Nibiru]

Could the airforce planes be reduced when attacking if the city has some type of air Defense?

Edited March 31, 2020 by Nibiru

[Raphael]

20 minutes ago, Alex said:

This change was actually tested on the test server some time ago, but I'm bringing it back up for reconsideration.

The idea is to make ground units a counter to aircraft, which are currently all-powerful.

First, this would nerf airstrikes on tanks so that Aircraft aren't particularly effective against ground forces.

Next, it would change Ground Control such that if you have it, instead of grounding a portion of your oppponent's airforce, each successful ground attack with ground control would destroy 1, 3, or 5% of their aircraft based on the victory type. (e.g. Immense Triumph destroys 5% of your opponent's aircraft.)

This gives people a way to counter aircraft, whereas currently the only counter is essentially more aircraft.

If you like this suggestion, please upvote this topic. If you don't, please post a comment below letting me know what you think.

Great idea.

14 minutes ago, Dryad said:

I think this could be good if only tanks could destroy the aircraft. If soldiers could do it then it would be too strong, because soldiers are dirt cheap and it would be kinda crazy if they could destroy aircraft. I would rather not see more reasons to increase soldier cost further

Yes, this^

 

Soldiers are an effective meta for raiding but to be fair to the game, I don't think they should counter planes.

[Proximity]

I was thinking to nerf soldiers and make them somehow counterable, while making tanks able to counter aircraft.

[Dryad]

10 minutes ago, Alex said:

Solving for X yields 0.0036, that is each Tank can destroy 0.0036 Aircraft in an immense triumph.

I think this may be a bit low? Not sure. With 20k tanks that would be 72 aircrafts destroyed in an IT, which would become 288 planes daily with 4 ground battles. I think that may be a bit low for an entire days worth of damage especially if the 1/3 daily rebuy change goes through. But I guess it's also additional damage to whats already being dealt so maybe it's fine lol.

[Alex]

21 minutes ago, Dryad said:

I think this may be a bit low? Not sure. With 20k tanks that would be 72 aircrafts destroyed in an IT, which would become 288 planes daily with 4 ground battles. I think that may be a bit low for an entire days worth of damage especially if the 1/3 daily rebuy change goes through. But I guess it's also additional damage to whats already being dealt so maybe it's fine lol.

With 20K tanks, I'm assuming we're talking about a 16 city nation.

Let's assume a 16c vs a 16c.

Nation A has max Tanks, 20,000. Nation B has max Aircraft, 1,440.

Assuming Nation A already has Ground Control, they can destroy 72 Tanks per ground battle, and they can do 4 ground battles per day, destroying 288 aircraft which is 20% of the opponent's aircraft.

I guess that could be a bit low - you'd never be able to (as an individual) beat down your opponent's aircraft if they kept rebuying 1/3 per day. Doubling the numbers would let you destroy up to 40% of your opponent's aircraft per day, for example, which may be a better system.

[Raphael]

24 minutes ago, Dryad said:

I think this may be a bit low? Not sure. With 20k tanks that would be 72 aircrafts destroyed in an IT, which would become 288 planes daily with 4 ground battles. I think that may be a bit low for an entire days worth of damage especially if the 1/3 daily rebuy change goes through. But I guess it's also additional damage to whats already being dealt so maybe it's fine lol.

It shouldn't be as powerful as attacking aircraft with aircraft imo. Just something that can help edge out planes.

For example - two nations at war. One has the advantage in the air, the other on the ground. If the Air-advantaged nation isn't paying attention you can double-buy planes and do four ground attacks and suddenly you've evened the playing field.

[Viselli]

59 minutes ago, Alex said:

With 20K tanks, I'm assuming we're talking about a 16 city nation.

Let's assume a 16c vs a 16c.

Nation A has max Tanks, 20,000. Nation B has max Aircraft, 1,440.

Assuming Nation A already has Ground Control, they can destroy 72 Tanks per ground battle, and they can do 4 ground battles per day, destroying 288 aircraft which is 20% of the opponent's aircraft.

I guess that could be a bit low - you'd never be able to (as an individual) beat down your opponent's aircraft if they kept rebuying 1/3 per day. Doubling the numbers would let you destroy up to 40% of your opponent's aircraft per day, for example, which may be a better system.

Air to Air should be the most effective way of destroying planes. However ground attacks should take out planes as if you overrun an airbase. This should only happen if you have tanks however to justify the cost of tanks vs soldiers

[Changeup]

Again, not a fan of this one aside from tanks hitting planes.

[Alex]

This has been implemented on the test server. Tank kill rate is:

• IT: 0.0075
• MS: 0.005
• PV: 0.0025

See:

 

[Majima Goro]

Love how you are making planes the MOST POWERFUL units in the game.

[Douglas MacArthur]

I disagree with these changes with regrades to aircraft damage to tanks because if we look at real conflicts such as ww1, ww2 and the iraq war it shows that above all air power was very important and that i believe that this importance should be reflected in the game. Since when have tanks destroyed aircraft in real life?

Edited April 3, 2020 by Douglas MacArthur

[Vali]

19 hours ago, Douglas MacArthur said:

I disagree with these changes with regrades to aircraft damage to tanks because if we look at real conflicts such as ww1, ww2 and the iraq war it shows that above all air power was very important and that i believe that this importance should be reflected in the game. Since when have tanks destroyed aircraft in real life?

It’s about balancing the game, not making it similar to real life. Well, for historical reference, one airstrike never killed 18% of a nations tanks. And during war, ground units attack airfields, and blow up planes. Like, not flying planes, ones just sittin there

[Sir Scarfalot]

18 hours ago, Di Vali said:

Well, for historical reference, one airstrike never killed 18% of a nations tanks

I'm pretty sure Iraq came close in 1991, depending on your definition of what an 'airstrike' exactly is.

Nevertheless, you're absolutely right that 'realism' is not and never should be a factor in mechanics decisions.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Sir Scarfalot

[Aizu Cassion]

Hrm. I do like that tanks would be a more viable option when it comes to dealing with planes but. What would the new numbers be pertaining to airstrikes against tanks? As it stands An airstrike with 1440 planes against 20,000 tanks the planes would be able to take out more tanks than the tanks would be able to take out planes. This is also assuming said ground attack gets a IT at all. With the current simulation an airstrike with 1440 planes would take out 3672 tanks from the 20k mentioned. so to compare. 1 IT with planes can take out more tanks overall than 1 IT ground attack with the proposed system. and 3 IT's in a day from planes would decimate more of the tanks than what the tanks could do to the planes. 

[Mandystalin]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:34 AM, Douglas MacArthur said:

Since when have tanks destroyed aircraft in real life?

Since about 1940 when the first AA tanks were in action. 

No mechanised unit on a modern battlefield would be without some form of AA, be it guns, missiles or both. Some hand-held, some vehicle-mounted.

 

For historical interest, there are even a handful of documented cases of standard tanks shooting down aircraft with their main gun, including a British Centurion knocking down a MiG-15 in Korea