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Change City Score and Increase Military Rebuy Time to 1/3 Daily


Alex
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Updating Nation Score Formula and Increasing Military Rebuy Speed  

259 members have voted

  1. 1. Should city score be increased from 50 per city (after city 1) to 100 per city, along with a 1/3 rebuy per day for conventional military units?

    • Yes
      128
    • No
      119


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3 minutes ago, Pascal said:

No because increasing city score will prevent us from downdeclaring as easily as before on nation with less cities.

Let's not forget, other players city scores will also jump slightly in score as well..
So, let's say a nation has 30 cities low infra and and 0 military - it would be around 3500 score and a 3,5k score can declare  between 2,625.00 - 6,125.00.
What I can see right now, I just found a 15 city nation that has 2,415 score(that will also jump by an extra 700 score, which would get that 15 city nation up to 3,115 score and therefore in a range of a 30 city nation(x2 the size) and literally has only 1k tanks and 1350 planes(max) 


Now a double buy of a 30 city nation would be 1800 aircraft, which would still totally smash the 15 city nation after declaring.

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Whales are already severely over-favored in wars, faster rebuys mean the side with the largest nations will win. Also, the score increase does not offset the rebuy benefits for down-declares, if this passes everyone who's active may as well be a raider since smaller guys can't stop you anymore.

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TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea.

On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said:
Sheepy said:

I'm retarded, you win

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The first suggestion is fine, the military changes would be VERY impactful - and not in a good way.  This makes it significantly easier for raiders to bully nations Alex (notice who supports these changes).  They can drop to 1/3 military and be full strength within 5 minutes, allowing them to pick off weaker nations easily.  If you're seriously going to 1/3 military daily, then you should eliminate double buys so people can't play that game - perhaps a quantity timer each turn as to what's available to build (and now we don't know when someone's day change is, so you can literally be screwed at any hour of the day).  If you do press forward with this anyway, there seriously needs to be something done about people playing shell games with alliance banks as raiders, along with beige time for offensive wars.  You have people with giant banks that make a new AA every time they are slotted, so it's literally never able to be touched, giving them almost unlimited resources to continue to raid whomever with zero risk.  You want to stop bullying smaller guys by raiders, let them actually get raided for once.

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Just now, Koala said:

city score needs to be increased, twenty city guys can hit 10 city nations, way too broken

This change will make it easier for whales to do this since they will be able to double-buy more military right after a down declare.

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Orbis Wars   |   CSI: UPN   |   B I G O O F   |   PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings

TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea.

On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said:
Sheepy said:

I'm retarded, you win

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Just now, Malal said:

This change will make it easier for whales to do this since they will be able to double-buy more military right after a down declare.

fair point, but I think something has to be put in to stop down declaring to an extent

sesame-street-the-count.gif

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4 minutes ago, Lord Tyrion said:

The first suggestion is fine, the military changes would be VERY impactful - and not in a good way.  This makes it significantly easier for raiders to bully nations Alex (notice who supports these changes).  They can drop to 1/3 military and be full strength within 5 minutes, allowing them to pick off weaker nations easily.  If you're seriously going to 1/3 military daily, then you should eliminate double buys so people can't play that game - perhaps a quantity timer each turn as to what's available to build (and now we don't know when someone's day change is, so you can literally be screwed at any hour of the day).  If you do press forward with this anyway, there seriously needs to be something done about people playing shell games with alliance banks as raiders, along with beige time for offensive wars.  You have people with giant banks that make a new AA every time they are slotted, so it's literally never able to be touched, giving them almost unlimited resources to continue to raid whomever with zero risk.  You want to stop bullying smaller guys by raiders, let them actually get raided for once.

I do not and never supported this change.

Edited by Pascal
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13 minutes ago, Malal said:

Whales are already severely over-favored in wars, faster rebuys mean the side with the largest nations will win. Also, the score increase does not offset the rebuy benefits for down-declares, if this passes everyone who's active may as well be a raider since smaller guys can't stop you anymore.

Everything you said is false and was literally proven false by you and your allies.

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25 minutes ago, SixSadistic66 said:

Let's not forget, other players city scores will also jump slightly in score as well..
So, let's say a nation has 30 cities low infra and and 0 military - it would be around 3500 score and a 3,5k score can declare  between 2,625.00 - 6,125.00.
What I can see right now, I just found a 15 city nation that has 2,415 score(that will also jump by an extra 700 score, which would get that 15 city nation up to 3,115 score and therefore in a range of a 30 city nation(x2 the size) and literally has only 1k tanks and 1350 planes(max) 


Now a double buy of a 30 city nation would be 1800 aircraft, which would still totally smash the 15 city nation after declaring.

I agree with you, but unlike the current meta it would favors strategy over numbers, which is why Coalition B beat you all during GW14 in case you forgot already kek.

Add to this that your example only concerns a few nations in the game, except a few persons in Mythic KT or Arrgh, you don’t have anyone being able to do this. We’re constantly being sat on by Swamp and outnumbered, with no money (tyvm Tyrion) and please spare us the 10k+ alum it would cost us to double buy planes.

23 minutes ago, Malal said:

Whales are already severely over-favored in wars, faster rebuys mean the side with the largest nations will win. Also, the score increase does not offset the rebuy benefits for down-declares, if this passes everyone who's active may as well be a raider since smaller guys can't stop you anymore.

Hum sorry ? Whales aren’t over-favored at all lol wut you saying ?

Edited by Pascal
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Guest Elijah Mikaelson

I support these changes

As for those talking about whales, please keep in mind the more cities you get the longer and longer it takes to get the next one, city 42 costs 3 billion.

The only other change you need to look at @Alex is that it takes 20 days to rebuild spies and you can lose all 60 spies in four hits so in two days

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5 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

I can't prove you wrong so I'll just make fun of your alliance instead

 

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Orbis Wars   |   CSI: UPN   |   B I G O O F   |   PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings

TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea.

On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said:
Sheepy said:

I'm retarded, you win

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Some in this thread think a 1/3 daily rebuy is too extreme. Please consider this 1/4 rebuy instead and vote there as well so I can gauge opinion and compare between the two:

 

Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest It

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Alright, so while I agree with Alex's reasons for these changes, i am afraid that they will end up having the opposite outcome.

First let us take the city score change increase. This change is likely to force alliances to tier their nations even heavier than is already the case since it will make it harder to support people if you do not have the same or almost the same number of cities. This will cause certain alliances or groups of alliances to end up largely in control of certain tiers when it comes to war, similar to what we have seen in previous wars, but to an even larger degree. The issue with this is that, unlike in previous wars, the increased score from cities, makes it harder to hit outside your tier, meaning the side in a war that controls the upper tier will have a harder time downdeclaring and the side that holds the lower tier will have a harder time updeclaring. This will cause the stalemate effect we have seen in previous wars to become even worse as neither side will have the ability to get a decisive advantage over the other.

Secondly, let us look at the plane rebuy time (because honestly none of the rest matters at all). Planes are already over powered and making them quicker to buy will do nothing to help that situation. But let us look at the specific reason many are citing, the ability to "make a comeback". In theory that is all fine and good, but in reality what this basically does is make it impossible to hold down large nations, thus giving an advantage to nations with higher city counts. It is already made harder by the city score change since it means you'll have less people able to help hold down large nations and added to that the large nations ability to instantly buy to 2/3 max planes makes it nearly impossible. It means that in order to hold down a large nation you will need nations with similar city counts in order to do it and if you don't have those you are simply out of luck. It will make it near impossible to decisively beat alliances with a higher tiering than your own.

So my opinion is that while I totally agree with the intentions of these proposed changes, I don't think they will have the desired outcome, but rather an outcome that is detrimental to the game.

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3 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Lets talk about this game actually works.  If we are talking about a global war, what happens is the side with the better upper tier will smash the other side's upper tier. Once that superiority is established, the losing side then dumps all extra NS to make it basically impossible for the "winning side's" upper tier to fight.  Assuming dropping out of range gives the losing side the numbers they can then slowly pick the winning nations off one at a time with the "winning side" unable to stop them.  With the city score increases, it actually makes it easier for nations to hide well below the range of large nations, who are basically defenseless and have to be vigilant to counters which can now come at anytime.  With the increased double buy, I think now a 30 city+ nation could hold off 3 20 city nations, it will be extremely expensive, but I think it would be doable.

If your example above is a raiding situation.  In this is the case, you need to think about cost,  could a 30 city nation with 0 military hit that 15 city nation? Yes, is it worth it?  They can buy 1980 planes, which will cost them just under 10k aluminum and 8 million in cash, which works out to what? 40-45 million in resources.  That is a ton of resources to spend to raid a crappy 15 city nation, who is probably dirt poor.

If it's a war situation you are talking about, after the first round or two of fighting that 15 city nation will be well out of range because they will have shed all their extra NS in the form of infra, and it will take a round or two to get that 30 city nation small enough to even think about targeting 15 city nations.

It's a war situation I'm talking about: 
Well you imagine 3 nations with 30 cities declaring on 3 nations with 15 cities, what would the outcome be? Easy fight
Each of those with 15 nations would be taken down real quick, and being pinned down there and most likely blockaded and zerod - the 3 nations with 30 cities could drop again, and double buy and hit another 2 targets.. You get the point?

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but, however

2 minutes ago, SixSadistic66 said:

It's a war situation I'm talking about: 
Well you imagine 3 nations with 30 cities declaring on 3 nations with 15 cities, what would the outcome be? Easy fight
Each of those with 15 nations would be taken down real quick, and being pinned down there and most likely blockaded and zerod - the 3 nations with 30 cities could drop again, and double buy and hit another 2 targets.. You get the point?

however, by dropping, they are exposing themselves to counter attacks, if you'd slot them with 17 cities they'd probably be toast.

 

and your forgetting the 1/3 buy applies to everyone. like, the ones attacked could buy back 400+ planes, while after doing those attacks, the 30 cities would be at 1500 ish, the they could be slotted by other ppl w 1/3 buy and destroyed

Edited by Di Vali
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6 minutes ago, SixSadistic66 said:

It's a war situation I'm talking about: 
Well you imagine 3 nations with 30 cities declaring on 3 nations with 15 cities, what would the outcome be? Easy fight
Each of those with 15 nations would be taken down real quick, and being pinned down there and most likely blockaded and zerod - the 3 nations with 30 cities could drop again, and double buy and hit another 2 targets.. You get the point?

1)This is why you’re usually in a bloc or protected by a high tier alliance (e.g Rose, Grumpy, tCW ..). Everyone in the top 50 is, except Pantheon.

2)As Ronny said, this is not worth it to decom and build up again, even for raiders.

3)Your scenario only works with 3 nations with 30 cities and low infra. Except Mythic, no one could do this.

Conclusion : Your scenario only works if you have a war between Mythic and Pantheon, and would still be as costly for Mythic as Pantheon.

Edited by Pascal
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1 hour ago, Malal said:

Whales are already severely over-favored in wars

I'm sorry, didn't we just have a year-long global war where your side won because the "whales" couldn't beat out the zerg-swarm of Roqbots with 18-20 cities? Where the whole game who wasn't on your side joined together and still got held down because of the broken war mechanics...

Your premise is, sorry to be rude, stupid. I don't appreciate you trying to further worsen the game by attempting to block the first genuinely good update in two years.

 

I hope Alex can see the results of the poll and finally recognize it's time for change to come to Orbis that benefits all nations, not just updates that nerf raiders or buff sub-10 city "players" in GPWC.

Edited by Roberts
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