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Sir Scarfalot

Bank VM... sorry raiders

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I mean, it's not like this is something you could have hid anyway

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=186528&display=bank

This is a bank, in VM. Which is against the rules.

That said, the fact that the resources have been hid in VM after being triple slotted and blockaded raises a new wrinkle: The bank isn't being protected. I realize this isn't the place to make an argument (and I would remind everyone of that, so don't post discussion), but I want that fact pointed out up front at least.

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@Do Not Fear Jazz asked me about this ahead of time, and I allowed it. His reasoning being that this wasn't the contents of the alliance bank, but his own personal investment from GOONS previously.

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GOONS main bank was hilariously accidentally transferred to @Cypher 
Any additional funds were split between Bird Weed, Sputnik, aNiMaLz, and NPO.

E: I had the intelligence to grab some of my last assets and dip before Blutarch kicked me. Remember; I started GOONS after playing the game for a year and a half and the first 30 or so members I built to 10c 1k/1k by myself. Plus the grabbing of referral bonuses. 

Edited by Do Not Fear Jazz

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A 75 day old nation has this kind of resources though?

total 355M money, 75k food, 10k Bauxite, 135K Gas, 425K Muni, 450K Steel and 820K Aluminium?
CHsMlLu.png

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3 minutes ago, Madokami said:

A 75 day old nation has this kind of resources though?

total 355M money, 75k food, 10k Bauxite, 135K Gas, 425K Muni, 450K Steel and 820K Aluminium?
CHsMlLu.png

My previous nation was created in April of 2018.

E: Additional point of interest; GOONS is a defunct alliance so there's no "bank" to hide regardless.

Edited by Do Not Fear Jazz

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20 minutes ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

My previous nation was created in April of 2018.

E: Additional point of interest; GOONS is a defunct alliance so there's no "bank" to hide regardless.

This is frankly irrelevant, since @Alex had already established with his prior ruling on @Bjorn Ironside that whether it's your personal wealth or not is irrelevant, as once it's been in the bank it is no longer yours and you have no claim to it.

 

Alex, for the love of Christ, at least keep your moderating consistent if it's going to be bullshit.

Edit: link to previous ruling and discussion: 

 

Edited by Akuryo
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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
1 hour ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

My previous nation was created in April of 2018.

E: Additional point of interest; GOONS is a defunct alliance so there's no "bank" to hide regardless.

Say bye bye, those funds will be sent back to the bank they was withdrawn from and 20% removed :D

2 hours ago, Alex said:

@Do Not Fear Jazz asked me about this ahead of time, and I allowed it. His reasoning being that this wasn't the contents of the alliance bank, but his own personal investment from GOONS previously.

Then i demand all my funds you wrongly removed from my nation returned to me.

how can you change your ruling like this, this is a god damn joke Alex.

Would also like to point out @Alex you clearly stated, It did not matter if they was my personal funds, I withdrew them from a bank and entered in to VM therefore hiding an alliance bank?

IF you are letting Jazz do this then its only fair you return all the funds you have removed from myself and many others, 

IF a nation of 75 days old can claim to have this much then how the hell could i not have had more?

Also Jazz claims My previous nation was created in April of 2018. as you made clear placing funds in a bank and re rolling and getting those funds back are against the rules.

So tell me Alex how is this fair?

Edited by Elijah Mikaelson

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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
2 hours ago, Alex said:

@Do Not Fear Jazz asked me about this ahead of time, and I allowed it. His reasoning being that this wasn't the contents of the alliance bank, but his own personal investment from GOONS previously.

So anyone else place tons of stuff in a bank and re-roll get a strike, but DNFJ do it and you are ok with it 

 

You are breaking so many of your own damn rules, keep this up and people will start to think NPO are right.



What you said @Alex

https://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=6033 is an alliance, they have a bank.

You received an enormous amount of funds from the Alliance Bank, then went into Vacation Mode.

Per the Game Rules:

  Quote

Hiding Alliance Banks

Using Vacation Mode as a way to protect an alliance bank from being raided is against the rules. If you are caught doing so, the bank will be promptly returned, with 20% of the contents deleted. If you suspect this is happening, please PM Alex in-game and he will investigate.

Using a brand new nation (less than 14 days old) to protect an alliance bank using their starting protection time (from new war declarations) is also against the rules. If you are caught doing so, the bank will be promptly returned, with 20% of the contents deleted. If you suspect this is happening, please PM Alex in-game and he will investigate.

 

It seems to be that by being in Vacation Mode, you were protecting the alliance bank contents from being raided. You spent a lot of (mostly the money) and sent some of the funds to a different bank, so I calculated what was effectively being protected from raiding via Vacation Mode, deleted 20%, and returned the other 80% per the Game Rules.

 

It seems like a pretty open-and-shut violation and subsequent punishment to me.

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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
2 minutes ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

Please see term B. @Bjorn Ironside

Still hiding an alliance bank, As Alex has stated many times once it enters a bank you no longer have claim over it, so once it goes back on your nation and enter VM its seen as hiding a bank as proven by my case.

Jazz do what you want this is not about you, this is about Alex not upholding the rules and his past actions to account.

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Just now, Bjorn Ironside said:

Still hiding an alliance bank, As Alex has stated many times once it enters a bank you no longer have claim over it, so once it goes back on your nation and enter VM its seen as hiding a bank as proven by my case.

Jazz do what you want this is not about you, this is about Alex not upholding the rules and his past actions to account.

1. It's not an alliance bank, Cypher very clearly is holding the GOONS bank, or was.

2. Even if it was, GOONS/GPA is a defunct alliance with it's entire leadership in VM and everyone else quitting. There's no where for it to be returned to.

3. I specifically asked before I did it for that reason, as I have zero desire to break Alex's rules.

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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
1 minute ago, Do Not Fear Jazz said:

1. It's not an alliance bank, Cypher very clearly is holding the GOONS bank, or was.

2. Even if it was, GOONS/GPA is a defunct alliance with it's entire leadership in VM and everyone else quitting. There's no where for it to be returned to.

3. I specifically asked before I did it for that reason, as I have zero desire to break Alex's rules.

Again, not saying what you did was wrong tho the rules state it is.

My personal funds was on my nation and the bank i withdrew them from was deleted, GPA still has 42 members. so it can be returned

however I lose 20% and Alex stated it did not matter if it was my personal fund, as there is no way to prove if the amount i had or you have is personal funds or alliance funds, so the ruling was as soon as it enters an alliance bank you lose all rights to it, the second you pull it out of a bank and enter VM you are in fact hiding an alliance bank and that's against the rules.

I do not wish for you to lose 20% Jazz, but with this Ruling I want everything Alex has taken from me returned as clearly by your ruling one can enter VM with personal funds.

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Hi, I'm the owner of the alliance that @Do Not Fear Jazz received the loan from. You can verify this in-game. Therefore, I am allowed to post in this thread as per the ruling on allowed parties.

We don't want the money. Don't send it back, thanks. It's his money that we loaned to him. Not our bank's.

It is clear that @Bjorn Ironside is going to continue to stomp his feet and scream until he gets what he wants, and will continue to scream about how any amount that has touched a bank is a bank, no matter what percentage it is.

If that is truly the hill you want to die on @Bjorn Ironside then I hope you never enter vacation mode again, as you have no way of vetting whether the resources you hold in your nation has touched an alliance bank. After all, you steal a percentage of an alliance's bank when you raid. Better not go into vacation mode, sweetie!

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To be clear, there are specific differences between what @Do Not Fear Jazz and @Bjorn Ironside did.

First, the amounts in this instance are significantly less than in @Bjorn Ironside's instance.

Second, @Do Not Fear Jazz came to me beforehand and asked whether it would be a rules violation to go into Vacation Mode, and I specifically okayed it. @Bjorn Ironside did not do that.

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