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OsRavan
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20 minutes ago, OsRavan said:

My only other hope is that someday we get to do the same for our other friends such as Arrgh (maybe some epic pirate shenanigans when this all finally ends).

This won't get you in a No-Raiding List, but epic pirate shenanigans do sound interesting!

Good luck with your wars. Have fun.

Edited by Ripper
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8 minutes ago, Ripper said:

This won't get you in a Non-Raiding List, but epic pirate shenanigans do sound interesting!

Good luck with your wars. Have fun.

Haha no worries.  When we first formed our 'friendship' informally with blue we specifically stated that any help we gave each other would not preclude you raiding us!   One of the reasons we like you all is your total lack of caring about conventions

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39 minutes ago, Ripper said:

This won't get you in a No-Raiding List, but epic pirate shenanigans do sound interesting!

Good luck with your wars. Have fun.

 

49 minutes ago, Keegoz said:

I don't neccessarily agree but I respect your decision. Good luck going forward.

Normally I'd respect both of your opinions...

But (OSRaven included) I feel like we're celebrating too early for ODN...

Their last offensive war was 1-29-20 by a nation that is currently in GG&FU...

A week without war isn't really helping your allies 

 

EDIT

I checked and out of the last 30 offensive wars (or literally all of their offensive wars) literally none of them were from a current member or ODN... That's likely months without wars...

Bit I'll tip my hat to you and your political moves...

Edited by CitrusK
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This is a bit of a mixed bag to me.

Os, in any other situation I would have commended you for your loyalty. At this point however, your ally got caught cheating. Even discounting that, this war has dragged on in utter toxicity for over 7 months. White peace is on the table -for NPO too-. To continue this permagrudge of a war your ally in NPO seems intent on is to be a part of the problem.

 

I hope you change your mind. Feel free to hit me up to discuss this war -be it with or without peace offer-.

 

Until then, good luck.

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27 minutes ago, CitrusK said:

 

Normally I'd respect both of your opinions...

But (OSRaven included) I feel like we're celebrating too early for ODN...

Their last offensive war was 1-29-20 by a nation that is currently in GG&FU...

A week without war isn't really helping your allies...

haha ohh its mostly been defensive on our parts i would say.  If you all stop hitting us we'll probably switch to hitting you.  I know on my part lately it has just been lobbing a TON of nukes in defensive wars.   But kudos to you all, I think youve mostly been keeping our active guys occupied.  like I said, i'm under no pretense that our actions are going to change the course of this conflict at all.

And honestly no need to celebrate us I agree.  As someone noted, I dont post a ton here, but i got like four or five discords since i woke up this morning so it seemed fitting to clarify our position.   Hence this announcement.

IMO think of this as a clarification and an explanation.  Not something you need to approve or disapprove. It simply is.  We'll do our thing and you all will do yours.  Speaking personally, I tend to respect anyone that's doing what they genuinely think is right even if I disagree with that decision.  Hence why ive no hard feelings for the other side even when I do disagree.

23 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

This is a bit of a mixed bag to me.

Os, in any other situation I would have commended you for your loyalty. At this point however, your ally got caught cheating. Even discounting that, this war has dragged on in utter toxicity for over 7 months. White peace is on the table -for NPO too-. To continue this permagrudge of a war your ally in NPO seems intent on is to be a part of the problem.

 

I hope you change your mind. Feel free to hit me up to discuss this war -be it with or without peace offer-.

 

Until then, good luck.

Hah.  Fair enough. Im at work now but we can chat later tonight maybe (though might be a bit late cause i'm also celebrating my birthday and feeling like an old man).

I can certainly sympathize with people who feel this war went on FOREVER.  Whatever the reasons, I can't pretend ive not found it boring as heck.   And if nothing else, Ive wanted arrgh out for ages (something is wrong when we don't have a free-raiding pirate alliance). I  dont have much sway on the higher end of things, but yes I'd have preferred it ended ages ago and haven't made much secret of that.

But yeah.  That also isn't the most important factor to me.  And again no offense if you disagree... as I said I dont think others need to adhere to *our* honor code. But to us, its precisely *because* of how this war has gone that we can't peace out.  Perhaps part of it is our disagreement over Admins actions.  But, as you said, put that aside.  More then that,  In my book its precisely when wars are boring, long, dragged out, or hopeless that you DONT peace out.  Anyone can be loyal in the good times or quick and easy wars.  Its the tough ones that show the mettle. 

We could come up with a bunch of excuses to leave, and the community here would be fine with it. And NPO are good enough friends im sure they would understand and have no hard feelings.  But... we would still have left our allies in a moment of crisis.  And then have to look at ourselves in the mirror.  And i'm not comfortable with what I would see in said mirror. 

Until I can feel satisfied that we've done everything in our power to help our friends... we just can't leave.  Even if all we can do is absorb some blows and lob some missiles.

Edited by OsRavan
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25 minutes ago, OsRavan said:

haha ohh its mostly been defensive on our parts i would say.  If you all stop hitting us we'll probably switch to hitting you.  I know on my part lately it has just been lobbing a TON of nukes in defensive wars.   But kudos to you all, I think youve mostly been keeping our active guys occupied.  like I said, i'm under no pretense that our actions are going to change the course of this conflict at all.

And honestly no need to celebrate us I agree.  As someone noted, I dont post a ton here, but i got like four or five discords since i woke up this morning so it seemed fitting to clarify our position.   Hence this announcement.

IMO think of this as a clarification and an explanation.  Not something you need to approve or disapprove. It simply is.  We'll do our thing and you all will do yours.  Speaking personally, I tend to respect anyone that's doing what they genuinely think is right even if I disagree with that decision.  Hence why ive no hard feelings for the other side even when I do disagree.

Hah.  Fair enough. Im at work now but we can chat later tonight maybe (though might be a bit late cause i'm also celebrating my birthday and feeling like an old man).

I can certainly sympathize with people who feel this war went on FOREVER.  Whatever the reasons, I can't pretend ive not found it boring as heck.   And if nothing else, Ive wanted arrgh out for ages (something is wrong when we don't have a free-raiding pirate alliance). I  dont have much sway on the higher end of things, but yes I'd have preferred it ended ages ago and haven't made much secret of that.

But yeah.  That also isn't the most important factor to me.  And again no offense if you disagree... as I said I dont think others need to adhere to *our* honor code. But to us, its precisely *because* of how this war has gone that we can't peace out.  Perhaps part of it is our disagreement over Admins actions.  But, as you said, put that aside.  More then that,  In my book its precisely when wars are boring, long, dragged out, or hopeless that you DONT peace out.  Anyone can be loyal in the good times or quick and easy wars.  Its the tough ones that show the mettle. 

We could come up with a bunch of excuses to leave, and the community here would be fine with it. And NPO are good enough friends im sure they would understand and have no hard feelings.  But... we would still have left our allies in a moment of crisis.  And then have to look at ourselves in the mirror.  And i'm not comfortable with what I would see in said mirror. 

Until I can feel satisfied that we've done everything in our power to help our friends... we just can't leave.  Even if all we can do is absorb some blows and lob some missiles.

Happy birthday 

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23 minutes ago, OsRavan said:

haha ohh its mostly been defensive on our parts i would say.  If you all stop hitting us we'll probably switch to hitting you.  I know on my part lately it has just been lobbing a TON of nukes in defensive wars.   But kudos to you all, I think youve mostly been keeping our active guys occupied.  like I said, i'm under no pretense that our actions are going to change the course of this conflict at all.

And honestly no need to celebrate us I agree.  As someone noted, I dont post a ton here, but i got like four or five discords since i woke up this morning so it seemed fitting to clarify our position.   Hence this announcement.

IMO think of this as a clarification and an explanation.  Not something you need to approve or disapprove. It simply is.  We'll do our thing and you all will do yours.  Speaking personally, I tend to respect anyone that's doing what they genuinely think is right even if I disagree with that decision.  Hence why ive no hard feelings for the other side even when I do disagree.

Hah.  Fair enough. Im at work now but we can chat later tonight maybe (though might be a bit late cause i'm also celebrating my birthday and feeling like an old man).

I can certainly sympathize with people who feel this war went on FOREVER.  Whatever the reasons, I can't pretend ive not found it boring as heck.   And if nothing else, Ive wanted arrgh out for ages (something is wrong when we don't have a free-raiding pirate alliance). I  dont have much sway on the higher end of things, but yes I'd have preferred it ended ages ago and haven't made much secret of that.

But yeah.  That also isn't the most important factor to me.  And again no offense if you disagree... as I said I dont think others need to adhere to *our* honor code. But to us, its precisely *because* of how this war has gone that we can't peace out.  Perhaps part of it is our disagreement over Admins actions.  But, as you said, put that aside.  More then that,  In my book its precisely when wars are boring, long, dragged out, or hopeless that you DONT peace out.  Anyone can be loyal in the good times or quick and easy wars.  Its the tough ones that show the mettle. 

We could come up with a bunch of excuses to leave, and the community here would be fine with it. And NPO are good enough friends im sure they would understand and have no hard feelings.  But... we would still have left our allies in a moment of crisis.  And then have to look at ourselves in the mirror.  And i'm not comfortable with what I would see in said mirror. 

Until I can feel satisfied that we've done everything in our power to help our friends... we just can't leave.  Even if all we can do is absorb some blows and lob some missiles.

I''d be happy to chat. Feel free to hop onto the t$ discord to find me!

Ultimately I don't think it's our approval you need. If you are content with your decision and position, then that will be all that there is to it. I'm aware you ascribe to what some might consider a rigorous oldschool (CN) mentality where war is concerned, and that to you, leaving a war prematurely is frowned upon. That environment was my first interaction with these games as well, and some of it did stick by me. 

Eventually though, I do wonder where one should draw the line, and when peace should become viable. Let's say NPO determines that they'd rather war until disbandment to spite t$- do you follow them despite the white peace on the table?

 

 

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2 hours ago, OsRavan said:

ODN doesn't really play the safe politics game.  As those who know us best could attest, we operate on a strict code of honor and a set of principles.  More than anything else, no matter what, we back our friends and we adhere to those principles.

I didn't realize it was comedy hour.  At any rate, glad you'll still be on the target lists!

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1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

This is a bit of a mixed bag to me.

Os, in any other situation I would have commended you for your loyalty. At this point however, your ally got caught cheating. Even discounting that, this war has dragged on in utter toxicity for over 7 months. White peace is on the table -for NPO too-. To continue this permagrudge of a war your ally in NPO seems intent on is to be a part of the problem.

 

I hope you change your mind. Feel free to hit me up to discuss this war -be it with or without peace offer-.

 

Until then, good luck.

U know agian the tear jerk ... NPO has been held at war many times in many realms for over 7 months ... we stood through it then and we will stand now.  

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3 minutes ago, brucemna said:

U know agian the tear jerk ... NPO has been held at war many times in many realms for over 7 months ... we stood through it then and we will stand now.  

You apparently have not been kept in the loop on your leadership's publicly stated intents.

Edited by HeroofTime55

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1 minute ago, HeroofTime55 said:

You apparently have not been kept in the loop on your leadership's publicly stated intents.

Hahaha.. okay u know what I know.... amazing how u couldn't win on the battle field but run to admin to do ur work for u. 

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