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2/5/2020 - Major Announcement Regarding Enforcement of Game Rules


Alex
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57 minutes ago, brucemna said:

Agian who r u to tell NPO anything of what's best for them .. in other words dont worry bout NPO we will just be fine. 

Apparently not, since your leadership just got banned for cheating.

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Wine for courage, making love to a camp follower. Tomorrow the battalion leaves for Burgundy.
Wine for courage, and two hours of sleep before dawn. Thank you, thank you  recruiters

You've got wine and a camp follower..thank you, thank you, recruiters

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1 hour ago, Madden8021 said:

Tankobite is right and so are the others who do agree that NPO won't be fine no matter where the future path is going after being caught for cheating and etc. I think it's high time that NPO finally closed up shop and disband since the Reputation to NPO as a whole is now tarnished and deserves to disband or continue being the punching bag to where you'll have no more treaties and protection which results in a Perma Roll. Now choose wisely is to either finally admit that NPO had finally messed up and should come clean and disband or no one wants a treaty and protect NPO to which ends in a perma roll.

Ah so u just threatened NPO with permanent war or roll lmao. Oh admin oh admin ....lmao .. naw couldn't be bothered. I am glad u can dictate what we can or cant do or should or should not. Just remember now these words u say may come back to haunt u. I dont know which u think u are that u can dictate to anyone what we are going to do or not as it is my understand only alex as the owner can say what u r saying. Geeesh for backroom trash talk like this we have members that r banned and yet u r still here .. go figure 

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9 minutes ago, brucemna said:

Ah so u just threatened NPO with permanent war or roll lmao. Oh admin oh admin ....lmao .. naw couldn't be bothered. I am glad u can dictate what we can or cant do or should or should not. Just remember now these words u say may come back to haunt u. I dont know which u think u are that u can dictate to anyone what we are going to do or not as it is my understand only alex as the owner can say what u r saying. Geeesh for backroom trash talk like this we have members that r banned and yet u r still here .. go figure 

I'd really hate to see NPO disband because they bring so much to this community but my friend you have such a steep slope to climb that I do not envy you. Like it or not but people will not forget quickly what happened and even if Alex swings around back people will feel it was cheating. 

You have to stop blaming Alex for the poor judgment of others. The man has a terrible job because no matter what he does it's going to be wrong. 

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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
On 2/8/2020 at 12:56 AM, Maelstrom Vortex said:


Problem is only one side bears any form of punishment. This is my view on the matter and all I will say any further on it. This was handled poorly all around. Rarely is the truth black and white. When egos prevail, no one wins.
 

Tell that to Alex that's had his personal information leaked, the app taken down among other things simply due to the fact you can not handle you got caught cheating and now crying wolf, he should have banned you all for like, anyone who had any part in it, NPO members who benefited from it but did not know about it same with BK, GoG, GOONs, Camelot should have been handled the same way as Nova, all cities and projects within the last 8 months removed.

but thats me, a little Bias after Roq calls me Hitler, Keshav making remarks about ooc, and IQ wanting to force me from the game

44 minutes ago, brucemna said:

Ah so u just threatened NPO with permanent war or roll lmao. Oh admin oh admin ....lmao .. naw couldn't be bothered. I am glad u can dictate what we can or cant do or should or should not. Just remember now these words u say may come back to haunt u. I dont know which u think u are that u can dictate to anyone what we are going to do or not as it is my understand only alex as the owner can say what u r saying. Geeesh for backroom trash talk like this we have members that r banned and yet u r still here .. go figure 

I know I am bad at grammar and spelling, but when i find this hard to understand, you know you gone messed up

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25 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

I'd really hate to see NPO disband because they bring so much to this community but my friend you have such a steep slope to climb that I do not envy you. Like it or not but people will not forget quickly what happened and even if Alex swings around back people will feel it was cheating. 

You have to stop blaming Alex for the poor judgment of others. The man has a terrible job because no matter what he does it's going to be wrong. 

No one is blaming alex such as it is just the desicion amd timing. For the desicion part as he had at one time said mechanical and not mod issue then giving out bans seems excessive specialky cause someone does not want to say sorry on demand. However this is determined if cheating or bending of the rules if in actually cause of the vagueness of the rules in question it seems a ban is excessive. I have seen worse talk in the game channel to be honest by them that condem. 

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13 hours ago, William of Cobden said:

I completely understand that your biases make you blind.

This is ridiculous rhetoric from your side. Technically you may be right though as it'd be hard to argue any player that cares to argue the point isn't biased, but this is also precisely why it's so ridiculous and redundant to trot out this rhetoric; we the players are biased. The most impartial party is the admin himself because presumably the admin's primary concern is maintaining and developing a fair game that gives confidence to its players it's worth playing (and thus investing money in). Alex investigated the incident and even went to the trouble of producing a 29 page report to outline the entire thing to the community. He didn't have to bother with all that, but that's apparently how much he cares to try and best enforce the rules and keep the players in the loop.

Personally I find it ridiculous anyone would think he even had it in for NPO when in the report he even says...

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To be honest, I like NPO and a few of the players being punished I would consider “friends.”

The punishments themselves even seem tame considering that this is the largest and most disruptive systematic abuse in the game's history. Sure Nova Riata generated more resource value than NPO's illegal farming operation, but NPO ran this thing for 6 months to support a war effort in which they sued for seriously damaging peace terms to Coalition A. There's no understating the immense impact this had on the last 6 months of game play, and to think the orchestrators of it received only temporary bans is absurd. Based on precedent from previous cheating for permanent bans and the significance of NPO's cheating effort and deception, I think Alex should have permanently banned all players that helped organise and manage the operation. I think there's a better argument to make that in fact Alex's bias was with NPO, not against given the tame inconsistent punishments and his outright confession of liking NPO.

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She got a year because she was the head of GPWC and therefore arguably the one most directly involved with the entire operation.

Anything that isn't a permanent ban is benevolent, given the extent and impact of the racket, as Zephyr said above. Especially given the direct precedent as set by NR, who not only had the bans and resource wipe, but also had any cities and other stuff (such as land and projects) that were bought after X date wiped. As Alex himself said on the earlier pages of the thread, he deliberately went soft on them so "not to cripple them/their coalition in the context of a war", or something along those lines. And yet, they still have the temerity to pretend as though they've been unfairly wronged.

Edited by Shiho Nishizumi
Phone errors.
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7 hours ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

Yuno says she didn't even scanlate for GPWC, so the charges don't make sense. Also a year? Really? ?

Ah, so they said they didn’t do it? Oh well, in that case bring them all back! Also while we’re at it, anything I’ve ever done wrong was actually not me, merely an evil clone trying to undermine my standing.

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55 minutes ago, RC Bandit said:

By the way, the rule "Real-World Transactions for In-Game Materials" includes buying discord bots (real-life goods) for in-game money and/or resources.

So you better scrub your records so Alex doesn't ban you like NPO/GPWC leadership.

I think that's a little too complex then, it should probably say on a case to case basis.

But can't really compare raising billions through people forced to play the game and give you most of their revenue in exchange for something to getting someone to make you an image or a bot and paying them with in-game resources. 

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3 hours ago, RC Bandit said:

By the way, the rule "Real-World Transactions for In-Game Materials" includes buying discord bots (real-life goods) for in-game money and/or resources.

So you better scrub your records so Alex doesn't ban you like NPO/GPWC leadership.

I think there is a clear and obvious exception to the rule when it comes to game-related materials in the player-created, external environment, such as national flags and art, discord bots, and other alliance-related materials.  It's been pretty traditional in games like this to transact in-game cash to those with the talents to create materials that enhance the gameplay experience for everyone.

An external translation of a comic, having nothing to do with PnW, for people who have no real interest in playing PnW, except for it being required of them to continue to access the comic, I think is a very clear and very obvious difference from an in-game trade for external game-related materials.  The hairs that are being split here in an effort to muddy the waters are quite ridiculous.  

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Yeah, I read the document. Sorry to say this, but there's literally dozens of screenshots PROVING that they were running this setup for months. They then proceeded to destroy evidence not realizing Alex had already found it and screenshot it,  then refused his attempts to offer them a lighter sentence in exchange for an offense he already knew they committed. If you guys wanna be mad at anybody, be mad at the NPO government for willingly cheating.

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On 2/5/2020 at 4:38 PM, Yuno said:

Thanks Alex

Screenshot_20200202-100111_Discord.jpg

Actually, guys, whether he was "Okaying it" or not is irrelevant. In the logs he clearly states that "the mechanics ought to just be changed so as not to make a bunch of inactive nations worth anything."  In other words, as long as these "farmer nations" are not generating any revenue. So even if he had "OK'd it" you still violated the rules by doing the complete opposite of what he told you to do when you made sure these nations were generating taxes.

 

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As a note, if Alex changed the mechanics to disrupt idle farming under how NPO was operating GPWC, then NPO naturally would have just changed their compliance requirements for GPWC inactive farms to whatever the new mechanical requirements were.  The idea that Alex could realistically stop it through mechanics changes is more or less nonsense.

Which is another reason an admin of a game should never shoot from the hip like that, and I think that was a tough lesson for Alex to learn in this, and I hope he has.  Some people will run with that as if it's law, even if it clearly contradicts multiple terms in the official rules.  I think Alex learned that all rules questions must be thought through very carefully, because someone might be approaching him disingenuously to toss out a half-baked "hypothetical" so that they have a screenshot to cry about later.

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1 minute ago, RC Bandit said:

I doesn't matter how much the transaction is or how many transaction, it would be still a breach of the above mentioned rule and Alex can take action.

 

What your detailed exemption describes people paying for services, which is not a violations of the rules. If the transactions are not for services then it would be a violation of the rules. 

Here's a better example for my original post. Alliance A decides to rent a discord bot from Alliance B for in game money/resources per day/week/month. Based off what has happened, that scenario would be a violation of the above mentioned rule.

Unless the bot is for something that has nothing to do with PnW, then this argument is absurd.  Can you point to a bot that isn't related to PnW or an alliance with a PnW presence?  That's really the determining factor here, is the transaction with a party who actually wants to be playing PnW, versus a party that is only logging in because they want access to a non-related good, such as a comic translation.

If you can point to a bot being sold for, say, a Call of Duty server or some shit, then you have a valid argument.

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20 minutes ago, RC Bandit said:

I doesn't matter how much the transaction is or how many transaction, it would be still a breach of the above mentioned rule and Alex can take action.

 

What your detailed exemption describes people paying for services, which is not a violations of the rules. If the transactions are not for services then it would be a violation of the rules. 

Here's a better example for my original post. Alliance A decides to rent a discord bot from Alliance B for in game money/resources per day/week/month. Based off what has happened, that scenario would be a violation of the above mentioned rule.

tenor.gif?itemid=7521418

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1 minute ago, RC Bandit said:

That's ill-relevant to the rules. A real-world transactions for in-game materials is still a violation of the rules regardless if the goods is related to PnW.

I'll highlight in the rules where your argument breaks down.

 

It does not break down.  Political games like this often extend well beyond the official websites.  Alliances always build off-site communication channels, Discord being the latest iteration therein.  It is entirely dependent on whether the Discord bot in your argument is being used to conduct alliance affairs, or if it is being used for something wholly external.

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On 2/6/2020 at 4:33 AM, Don Juan said:

Also, comparatively, Grumpy got 20% of its bank deleted for a violation, and this seems about on par or more lenient, IMO.

So I'm not sure what they're all complaining about, there's precedent for this, multiple times, even extending from Beta, I mean remember Abbas too in Beta...

That one hit right in the knee. 

 

I am not a member of Guardian p&w

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One question... does alex or pnw own discord. As far as I know whomever owns the channel is that and discord is a separate entity which is chosen by people to do their communications.  Unless stated public I beleive private channels are just that. If one enters that private channel and copies anything they are actually invading privacy is my thought if not given permission by the channel owner would I beleive be the rule of thumb.

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3 minutes ago, brucemna said:

One question... does alex or pnw own discord. As far as I know whomever owns the channel is that and discord is a separate entity which is chosen by people to do their communications.  Unless stated public I beleive private channels are just that. If one enters that private channel and copies anything they are actually invading privacy is my thought if not given permission by the channel owner would I beleive be the rule of thumb.

Oh yes, Alex, you bad boy, invading their privacy :rolleyes:

Just when you thought NPO arguments couldn't get any sillier.

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Just now, HeroofTime55 said:

Oh yes, Alex, you bad boy, invading their privacy :rolleyes:

Just when you thought NPO arguments couldn't get any sillier.

I only mentioned alex does not own discord never said he went in it or whatever and I just asked a question ... 

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It doesn't, because the two are separate matters.

The scanlations were provided in exchange of having the farms generate the revenue for them. That violation took place independently from the way in which the information was gathered.

You're trying to muddy up the waters because your other defenses/excuses keep falling flat.

 
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