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2/5/2020 - Major Announcement Regarding Enforcement of Game Rules


Alex
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3 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

It's not. And repeating what you said whilst ignoring the rest of my explanation won't make your statement any truer.

Whataboutism is not a valid defence. Only an admission that you don't have anything better to cough up as a would-be defence.

Alex shares a similar sentiment on the closing notes of his document, where he encourages people to write up similar reports of other alliances potentially running something similar.

I completely understand that your biases make you blind.  I'm starting to believe everything I'm hearing from the other side.

 

That "whataboutism" clearly highlights a "catch-all rule" that can be conveniently pulled out as ammunition to punish anyone you want at any time if you want.  That's my point.

Edited by William of Cobden
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9 minutes ago, William of Cobden said:

I completely understand that your biases make you blind.  I'm starting to believe everything I'm hearing from the other side.

I welcome your admission of defeat.

9 minutes ago, William of Cobden said:

That "whataboutism" clearly highlights a "catch-all rule" that can be conveniently pulled out as ammunition to punish anyone you want at any time if you want.  That's my point.

Again, if you suspect that someone else's doing something similar, write a comprehensive report and present it to Alex.

 

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4 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

Yup... they knew they'd get "caught", they thought it was legal.

Since you like to spin, not read, and only respond to the points you like.. you get a participation trophy and no further response.

People who don’t think what they’re doing is wrong don’t obfuscate and delete the evidence of what they were doing when it’s being investigated. 

Edited by Prefontaine
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4 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

Again, if you suspect that someone else's doing something similar, write a comprehensive report and present it to Alex.

Fairness in Trading & Banking

Prices and amounts in trades are generally at the player's discretion. In instances where trades and banks are used to funnel money and/or resources from one nation to another, where one nation has no intention to continue playing the game is a bannable offense.

 

I charge every alliance in the game of taking money from inactive nations (who have no intention of ever playing the game again) into their bank, and "funneling" it into their active nations.  Alex please investigate.

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1 minute ago, Prefontaine said:

People who don’t think what they’re doing is wrong don’t obfuscate and delete the evidence of what they were doing when it’s being investigated. 

The old "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" argument ...

I would argue that they had seemingly cause to believe that they were being targeted by their enemies, which they would say now included the admin of the game.  As such they were protecting themselves from that attack in the only way they knew how.

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6 hours ago, Buorhann said:

That's why they didn't come clean about it and argue their case then, right?  Instead, they decide to enrage their other allied communities into running a smear campaign on him.

 

Sounds legit.

Don’t forget deleting the evidence as soon as he asked them about it

1 hour ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

If they gave access to digital content which is free to reproduce, its news to me that would count under that rule. So I don’t agree with the bans.

But it isn’t free to reproduce...

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Wine for courage, making love to a camp follower. Tomorrow the battalion leaves for Burgundy.
Wine for courage, and two hours of sleep before dawn. Thank you, thank you  recruiters

You've got wine and a camp follower..thank you, thank you, recruiters

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48 minutes ago, Tankobite said:

Don’t forget deleting the evidence as soon as he asked them about it

But it isn’t free to reproduce...

I think there is a legal & moral difference when you give it away free. Since it is free to reproduce though.

libertyribbon.png

 

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3 hours ago, Thalmor said:

After the Google review nonsense and doxing, the people with temporary bans should be grateful that they can still serve out their time and that their bans didn't become permanent. Their friends certainly did their best to make Alex as unsympathetic and hostile as possible by trying to go after his income and reputation. 

Point of clarification that will probably end poorly for me. The community has had a problem with doxxing before, and someone with a (supposed) financial interest in seeing PnW fail has already been posting sensitive information about Alex, even though that wasn't doxxing.

We don't know for certain that NPO/GOONs et al were the ones behind the doxxing, or if was some other actor(s) looking to achieve something or just cause some chaos. We should stick to the known facts about the wrongdoing (the manhwa farm, etc).

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10 minutes ago, Noctis Anarch Caelum said:

 

I think there is a legal & moral difference when you give it away free. Since it is free to reproduce though.

You’d be wrong then. Just because you don’t charge money for giving away copyrighted material doesn’t make it ok...

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Wine for courage, making love to a camp follower. Tomorrow the battalion leaves for Burgundy.
Wine for courage, and two hours of sleep before dawn. Thank you, thank you  recruiters

You've got wine and a camp follower..thank you, thank you, recruiters

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There is this constant discussion as to whether the rules were correct or not, I find it ridiculous that it gets to the point of contesting these things

Example: there is a law that considers a crime punishable by 20 years in prison if you invest voluntarily and kill someone with a car or motorbike

I will not kill anyone by investing him/her in any vehicle because I understand that it is a wrong thing and I understand why the existence of that law

Someone dishonest could kill a person he disliked with a sidecar and be imprisoned for 20 years because the sidecar is considered a motorcycle by the jury

Although I think the law was not perfectly clear and that the sidecar was not to be considered a motorbike I would never try to defend his actions in any way because he knew just like me that it was a criminal action and he only tried to implement it by circumventing the law, the inaccuracy of the law doesn't make him less guilty in my eyes

So don't try to defend those who have been banned even if they are your friends because especially in a game that is played for fun one should never approach the limit of illegal/incorrect/beyond the rules

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8 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

It was pretty much spelled out.. verbatim. From the logs. I see that as a Mechanics.. not a moderation issue...

 

verbatim.jpg

Where in there does it say "Hey if we offer people goods to play the game and be tax farms, is it okay?"

It clearly states, "What if a content creator made them all sign up to pnw and be tax farms in their alliance to get access to their future content."

You are confusing the two statements. They are not the same.

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3 hours ago, William of Cobden said:

I charge every alliance in the game of taking money from inactive nations (who have no intention of ever playing the game again) into their bank, and "funneling" it into their active nations.  Alex please investigate.

That's not even close to the same thing that happened in this instance and you know it.

:nyan:The Volleyball :nyan: 

Avanti Immortali

 

..one, two, Jimmy's coming for you...

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2 hours ago, Madden8021 said:

Still, letting people pay to read illegal scanlations of manhwa, doxing members and even Alex, ddosing the game's website and forums, Using your Puppet Alliance as a tax farm and taking their Money and Resources to fuel members and gov of only NPO which even those members from GPWC are told to just log in before going into Gray while isolating GPWC members from interacting with the rest of Orbis is pretty much a stupid decision to illegal rule breaking actions. So NPO broke the Rules/Guidelines and ToS to P&W and even Discord since once caught for cheating to illegal activity then you should confess and give up to the law. NPO's Reputation is forever ruined since it's finally the best decision to Disband over the current scandal happening to NPO and GPWC. @Alex is looking over everything, getting evidence while making reports to Law Enforcement, Attorneys/Lawyers, and Discord's Trust and Safety Team so everything can be searched for the final verdict to be brought into light. It's just finally time for NPO to disband if everything is found Guilty but if it's not Guilty then whatever man.

Btw, we also want confessions from the banned NPO members and gov that they're making false Accusations to the Google playstore and Apple App Store Reviews.

Seriously.. wonders how u know so much what Alex is doing and whom u are to demand anything. 

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4 minutes ago, Madden8021 said:

Oh haha, how cute of you trying to defend your own alliance in saying "Oh, we did nothing wrong or broke the rules and law and we didn't deserve to see our gov members banned which was unjustified and GPWC getting a forced disban to where NPO doesn't deserve the hate either"

Listen, NPO did what they've done and got caught red handed for it, the bans were justified and the only thing left to to find more evidence and let Sheepy, Law Enforcement and the Discord Trust and Safety Team get things done from the NPO Gov's side of the story "since they were the one's that have caused this" to which they need to tell the truth than keep on lying and having members like YOU defend them in even more lies and act like it never happened "when in fact it did." If things end in a guilty then NPO will have no other choice but to Disband but if it's Not Guilty then we can give up on this scandal either way.

First and foremost the question was who do u think u r to be the one whom decides that we will disband .  

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44 minutes ago, Madden8021 said:

 let Sheepy, Law Enforcement and the Discord Trust and Safety Team get things done from the NPO Gov's side of the story "since they were the one's that have caused this" to which they need to tell the truth than keep on lying and having members like YOU defend your government masters in even more lies and act like it never happened "when in fact it did." If things end in a guilty then NPO will have no other choice but to Disband but if it's Not Guilty then we can give up on this scandal either way.

 

The problem is his integrity has seriously been called into question.  And the more I hear about it, and the attitude of most of you here, I'm starting to believe the narrative where he chose a side and created a narrative that would reach the endgame that was desired.

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1 minute ago, William of Cobden said:

 

The problem is his integrity has seriously been called into question.  And the more I hear about it, and the attitude of most of you here, I'm starting to believe the narrative where he chose a side and created a narrative that would reach the endgame that was desired.

It is not called into question, except by those who were rulebreaking and those who gained an advantage by association with those who were rulebreaking.

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6 hours ago, William of Cobden said:

The old "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" argument ...

I would argue that they had seemingly cause to believe that they were being targeted by their enemies, which they would say now included the admin of the game.  As such they were protecting themselves from that attack in the only way they knew how.

Before it was even being officially investigated there’s logs of the ones in charge talking about not letting it get out about what they’re doing. There were forum posts about how GPWC was going to be isolated from the community because it was toxic, but also because they were just predominantly farmers there for a comic, which that needed to be kept secret. They also inform their farmers not to talk about what they were doing. This was all prior to the admin investigation, after which evidence was attempted to be hidden/destroyed. 

 

You can attempt to make the case that there were were additional reasons besides knowing it was wrong, but knowing it was wrong was still a reason. 

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Just gave you your 8k upvote lol.

But yeah, "our enemies include Alex" is a pretty wildly insane argument to make.  "Protecting themselves from the attack" of rules enforcement, lol.

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25 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

Before it was even being officially investigated there’s logs of the ones in charge talking about not letting it get out about what they’re doing. There were forum posts about how GPWC was going to be isolated from the community because it was toxic, but also because they were just predominantly farmers there for a comic, which that needed to be kept secret. They also inform their farmers not to talk about what they were doing. This was all prior to the admin investigation, after which evidence was attempted to be hidden/destroyed. 

 

 

 

I've already mentioned my belief that getting people to join and remain in active standing with an alliance by offering them exclusive content doesn't clearly break the trading of in-game resources for out of game resources.  And if it does the rule should be be re-written to clearly include that scenario.

Keeping quiet about or hiding/destroying evidence doesn't prove anything either as it's clear that any such information could be twisted and used by enemies (and apparently even possibly admin) to create a narrative against you.

Also ...

I've never even heard of any of you until a couple days ago.  I wouldn't have known a NPO member (or whatever that Guinea Pig alliance is) from a any other of your alliances.  I had no idea who was on ColA or ColB, still don't really.  I guess my alliance was on NPO's side?   I log on every day and do my own thing.  I've been playing this game for years, and very rarely get involved in any of this crap.  I can see now that is for good reason.

I'm so glad I benefited from months and months of this endless war and the constant re-building after attacks from nations twice my size.

 


 

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1 minute ago, William of Cobden said:

 

I've never even heard of any of you until a couple days ago.  I wouldn't have known a NPO member (or whatever that Guinea Pig alliance is) from a any other of your alliances.  I had no idea who was on ColA or ColB, still don't really.  I guess my alliance was on NPO's side?   I log on every day and do my own thing.  I've been playing this game for years, and very rarely get involved in any of this crap.  I can see now that is for good reason.

I'm not on ColA or ColB. I'm in a retired neutral alliance.

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54 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

Before it was even being officially investigated there’s logs of the ones in charge talking about not letting it get out about what they’re doing. There were forum posts about how GPWC was going to be isolated from the community because it was toxic, but also because they were just predominantly farmers there for a comic, which that needed to be kept secret. They also inform their farmers not to talk about what they were doing. This was all prior to the admin investigation, after which evidence was attempted to be hidden/destroyed. 

 

You can attempt to make the case that there were were additional reasons besides knowing it was wrong, but knowing it was wrong was still a reason. 

Just out of curiosity... if these privatr logs before the investigation were there ... how do u know them and how did u read them to know what was apperently said. 

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1 hour ago, Madden8021 said:

Do you want NPO's Reputation to further Tarnish?


So it's best for NPO to just disband if it continues.

Agian who r u to tell NPO anything of what's best for them .. in other words dont worry bout NPO we will just be fine. 

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8 minutes ago, Madden8021 said:

Wow, you're such a suck up to NPO like the fanboy you really are. Grow up and realise that NPO is on a downward spiral to no recovery, we know what your alliance has done and are already gaining that reputation of being hated by others in this community. So it's for the best that NPO disbands and move on to something else before it further tarnishes to another scandal anyway. Btw, saying that "NPO will be fine" tells you that you're such a suck up to their propaganda kool-aid. NPO will not be fine and will forever go on it's downward spiral to no return. 

 

So ur saying that a couple of TEMP bans on some members mean we will be or should disband .  In all honesty we have been mostly disliked since day one we changed from the old Vamguard to NPO. And as well I get the impression that u are not going to rest til we either do disband or delete.  Hmmmm I think u are just proving maybe that the leadership is right on our side that months ago u all tried to set us up to beat us down to leave the game.  Oh see I just twisted ur words .. or didnt I. Like i mentioned NPO will be just fine without without ROQ and co 

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