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2/5/2020 - Major Announcement Regarding Enforcement of Game Rules


Alex
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3 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Maelstrom, I must say, you are the closest thing to a voice of reason from within NPO.  Please take that as a compliment, I am bad at giving those.  It's a breath of fresh air compared to the mostly trolling and threatening to destroy the game I've seen from your comrades.

I would like to put forth, that the rules were absolutely clear.  The rules did NOT specify that the transaction had to be for something of monetary value for it to be illegal.

Please allow me to quote the relevant rules section as it appears this very moment (slimmed down to only the parts that are relevant):

...it is against the rules for players to make exchanges of real-life money or goods for in-game materials, including but not limited to: in-game money, and in-game resources. Examples of this type of behavior would include: sending someone real-life money for in-game money or in-game resources, purchasing someone a Steam game for in-game money or in-game resources, sending someone a gift-card for in-game money or in-game resources, and any other sort of real-world trade for in-game goods.

Bold for emphasis.

The translated comics, while not of financial value, were nonetheless a "real life good" in the sense that it was not within the confines of the game.  GPWC existed primarily to get people, who were interested in gaining access to this "real life good" but were NOT actually interested in playing PnW, to sign up for PnW to become resource farms for the benefit of NPO.  This was outlined clear as day in the evidence packet, with access to the comic restricted for "farmers" who fell out of compliance in PnW.

I fully understand if this is not the easiest thing to swallow, as your comrades, people you have close personal relationships with over the course of many years, are guilty of this.  I expect that it will be hard to accept.  But this is the truth, and it is an unequivocal truth.  The rules were crystal clear on this.

For Alex's part, I do struggle to accept the argument that "nobody came to me for 5 months..."  I struggle with that, but that doesn't make it his fault that NPO broke the rules, which were clear, but rather that he failed to enforce them for such a long period of time (and I do think he apologized for this, adequately enough for my needs at least).  But that doesn't shift blame for the actual rule breaking, or mean that a rule wasn't broken just because it hadn't been enforced (after Alex was lied to about what was going on, btw), and I have to say, he gave NPO a very generous opportunity to fess up and walk away with less consequences, but their response was to try to hide and deny the operation.  As if they were aware it wasn't actually in-line with the rules.

You come off as reasonable here, Mael, and I am sorry, truly, that you have had to see all your friends reap these consequences.  And I don't think that is an easy thing to deal with.  It can't be.  But the rules absolutely were clear.

 

The rules are not clear. I have given a translation where they are. I have explained why they are not clear in my suggestion.. And if they were clear, I do not see why Alex has a hard time with his on interpretation of them 5 months ago. His own logs, when you actually download that html, put it onto a desktop, open it in a browser in a way that you can read it.. (because the XML formatting will drive you batty in text format) will actually tell the whole story and an unbiased third party looking at it with an open mind will see how they were literally..

Talking right past each other.

Alex gave the go ahead, and then changed his stance 5 months later. The thing is this shouldn't be something Alex should be deciding on the fly. This should have been an "already in the rules" matter.. and it wasn't, not clearly.. or again.. why a misinterpretation by its own creator and inaccurate guidance?

If the game wants to heal, the hubris needs to die. Stop patronizing me. Start reading and listening and keeping an open mind and consider adaptations that will avoid a repeat by any other future party.. and simplify Alex's own job.

You told me yourself, you haven't read the whole log yet. Read the entire transcript. Go as far as I did.. download the files, open the links.. it's self-manifest what happened. Alex made his case, but he needs to realize his role in the whole matter for a genuine correction to occur.

Know what I know, that the players accused have never broken rules before when the Administrator's position was entirely clear on the matter and transparent. This is NOT in character for them.

Pushing boundaries? Most definitely.. going over them? It yields no reward. I will point out something Roq said, we cannot possibly expect to hide the scope of this. It would be found out.  The government KNEW this.. you can read that for yourself. There would be no point to an active and sustained deception that would be known to be inevitably uncovered to dire consequences. This is effectively asking you to think of our leadership as inept.. and short sighted. If that were the case.. and we've waged war with you before and will likely after this unless Alex totally nukes us.. and kept the lot of you at bay.. then what does it say of yourselves? It's totally without any sort of logic to it.

This is not a black/white situation. This is a grey. This is a lesson waiting to be learned and by more than one party.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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Actually, it is black and white. You guys were trading real world goods for in-game goods. That is against the rules and always has been. So you were cheating and got caught and are now trying to do damage control but no one is buying it so you might stop wasting everyone's time and just give it up.

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He didn't "give the go ahead," he was shooting from the hip and was tossed a hypothetical that was very far from fleshed out.  While I hope Alex has learned that, in his role, he cannot shoot from the hip like that,  NPO took that tiny snippet as law and ran with it.

More importantly, when confronted to tell the full story 5 months later, NPO tried to obfuscate and hide.  I'm sorry, but the facts are the facts.  I am about three quarters through that log so far and it's clear NPO gov is just lying and spinning in it.  I think you are mixing up intentional obfuscation and lies with "they were just talking past each other."  It is extremely clear that people not interested in PnW were farming resources in exchange for external goods (the translated "novel"/"comic") and that this was ongoing to the date that the hammer was dropped.  NPO gov were banned for their efforts to obfuscate and lie about the situation more than the mere situation itself.

NPO flew too close to the sun this time, and Alex STILL gave them a chance to just goddamn admit it.

I'm sorry, but the rules are crystal clear, and they should have been forthright when asked.  We would have won this war with a couple months of attrition, we didn't need nor want this, but it is NPO who decided to cheat, who left Alex with no choice.  Our "victory" is pretty damn hollow right now when we were well on our way to winning this thing legitimately.

Alex shouldn't have spoken loosely to a hypothetical.  Alex should have dealt with this 5 months ago.  But NPO cheated and lied to Alex about it.

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It was pretty much spelled out.. verbatim. From the logs. I see that as a Mechanics.. not a moderation issue...

 

verbatim.jpg

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

So he tells you it's an issue, but you go ahead and exploit it.

I did nothing.. and I did say that both parties are in the wrong. Also explicitly NOT a moderation issue. There's a difference in an exploit and something that needs nerfed. This was not an exploit. This was a mechanic allowed to fester, then corrected and people punished for it who rightfully had a reason to believe it was within current acceptable bounds. That is the truth of it to anyone not reading through one lens or the other, setting aside all preconceptions and biases and simply reading for details.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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7 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

I did nothing.. and I did say that both parties are in the wrong. Also explicitly NOT a moderation issue.

Alex did nothing wrong.  He told Senry it was an issue with the hypothetical situation that was provided.  Yet your leads went ahead and exploited the "mechanic issue".  If you're going to base your argument on what Alex told Senry, it's very clear that he said it was an issue.  Whether it's mechanical or moderation, it doesn't matter, your leads still exploited it.

Now you just showed that they did it willingly and knowingly.

Alex gave them a chance to explain the "mechanical issue" they exploited, they refused, so he brought down the banhammer.

EDIT:

Since you edited your reply, I'll add on.  Alex very clearly said that had they came clean, no bans would've been issued.  Sooo...

Your explanation of a "exploit" and "something that needs to be nerfed" is a joke.  That...  that isn't even the center of the issue.  It was an exploit, with an illegal situation tied to it.

Edited by Buorhann
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6 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Alex did nothing wrong.  He told Senry it was an issue with the hypothetical situation that was provided.  Yet your leads went ahead and exploited the "mechanic issue".  If you're going to base your argument on what Alex told Senry, it's very clear that he said it was an issue.  Whether it's mechanical or moderation, it doesn't matter, your leads still exploited it.

Now you just showed that they did it willingly and knowingly.

Alex gave them a chance to explain the "mechanical issue" they exploited, they refused, so he brought down the banhammer.

You are such a spinster.

1. Alex did not think deeply enough into what he was allowing passive permission for. He indicated it was a known mechanics problem and probably should/will be nerfed. This happens in games alll the time. And yes, min/maxers exploit those mechanics in the existing rule-set.. legally.. until the dev fixes it. There was no indication the act was illegal by the fact it was said it wasn't a moderation concern/problem.

2. I indicated/showed nothing. That content is already in Alex's logs.

3. You obviously do not read as that is not at all what happened. He did finally get into a group chat with the NPO alliance leadership... months later.. the ones who knew what were happening.. not the people in the alliance who might have had half-a-clue and they made their case and he plowed through it with his own information gathering and made it a point that the activity they participated in, he now interpreted as illegal and subject to moderation since he then knew the full extent of it. 

There is a lack of general consistency.. I've given the solution for it. I am not saying the NPO is clean in this, they did push to the fringe a mechanic they knew was considered a problem, but again, this does, legally happen in quite a few games until the issue is corrected. The problem is that Alex, probably because he was unaware of the full potential for its deployment, did say the behavior was allowed within moderation standards indicating he would not take action....

However, he has.

This is why when you're establishing a game like this you have to really try to get ahead of your players and anticipate. People will push the boundaries.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex

 

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1 minute ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

You are such a spinster.

2. I indicated/showed nothing. That content is already in Alex's logs.

Since you like to try and keep dodging, everything is provided.  It's pretty transparent.  Feel free to go back through and check.

Alex went back after evidence was provided of the scheme going on.  There were reports sent in about GPWC, he had none, until it was finally provided.  That's the only reason why it took "so long" for him to get to this point.  Your alliance got caught.

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2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Since you like to try and keep dodging, everything is provided.  It's pretty transparent.  Feel free to go back through and check.

Alex went back after evidence was provided of the scheme going on.  There were reports sent in about GPWC, he had none, until it was finally provided.  That's the only reason why it took "so long" for him to get to this point.  Your alliance got caught.

Yup... they knew they'd get "caught", they thought it was legal.

Since you like to spin, not read, and only respond to the points you like.. you get a participation trophy and no further response.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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Just now, Maelstrom Vortex said:

Yup... they knew they'd get "caught", they thought it was legal.

That's why they didn't come clean about it and argue their case then, right?  Instead, they decide to enrage their other allied communities into running a smear campaign on him.

 

Sounds legit.

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1 minute ago, Buorhann said:

That's why they didn't come clean about it and argue their case then, right?  Instead, they decide to enrage their other allied communities into running a smear campaign on him.

 

Sounds legit.

They did.. someone clearly has not read the logs. It took them a while into the convo, but they did pretty much fess up to all of it as they were pushed and the nature of what the complaint was was clear. See Frawley's and Roq's explanations. They did also explain why they thought he had cleared it.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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V̢ͭ̔ͣͯͫ͐ͥ̄͗ͬ̄ͭ͏̹͖̺̲͕̦͉̣̙́i̡͕͙̺̗̻̹̘͇̋̽̆ͮ̈́́ͭ͢͢͞n̢̛̫̘͎̝̪̪͔̙̗̘͚͇͚̣̦ͫ̊ͩ͊͌͘͜͝i̡̱̭͉͔̘̖̠̲̺̍͐ͯ̌̈̾̾́̔͑̋ͬͯ̑̚͠ ̸̷̨̜̦͓͖͖̹̫̹̖̮͙̻̻̹̺̞͍̙ͥ̏̃ͨ̓͑̏͊̀ͯ̉ͯ̒͒͗̄̚V̢̢̡̙̻̳̘͖̖̟͚̣̬̏͐ͮ͒̎̈̽̽̾̂̔̅ͩͪͦ̑̿̏̍ͅͅi̶͍̮͈͇̰̫̯͉̜͒́̉̊̓̚͘̕ḑ̸͈̟̫̹̟͓̹̠͇̗͖̤̥̰̲̬ͮ̉ͫi̴͔̪͍͇͌̋̆̃͆̈̔ͧ͆̎̋ͥͫͫ́͢͠ ͕̞̠̯͍̫͚̪̺͓̣̦̖ͧ̓ͬ̎̀͝ͅV̴̨̤̙͔̥͍̟̦̥̺̟̯͔̤̫ͬͮ͑͌i̞͎̹͇̻͎̘̳̮̤͙̯̩ͪ̂͌̐ͪ͐̓̃ͧ̈̓͛̎̄̈͞͡ͅd̸̵̬̫͔͙̀̓͐̈́͜͡e͍̝̗̱̝͈̣̤̜̳͑̓͂̈ͯͤ̕͡v̸̖̰̟͈̠̰̣̮̦ͭ̆̑ͮͮ̾͊ͤ̒̊̊ͯ̈́ͬ͌ͭ̚͜ȏ̧͊̿͑ͯ̚͏̲̣̩̼͙ṙ̴̴̠̗̼̥͈̣̌͋̃̔̎̿ͨͥ͗̈̋̋̆̐̀ͩͦ̕͘͜ͅá̵̦͎̣͇̦̙͙͖̟̣̲̳̘̣̣̳̝͊̈́̐̇̑̔̈̉͒̆ͬv̵̨̭̝̯̫̞̜̭̭̘ͦͧͭ͋̂ͣͨͮ̑ͪͤ͌ͣ̒̽̾̾͢͠͡î̛̞̟̤͍̰̂ͪ͛̒̍̅͒̉̅ͥͯ̌̽̈́̾̈͛̏͡ț̷̲̟͎̰̟͇͖͖̻̼̰̞͎̯͚͚ͩͧͨ̆͗̕͢.̵̢̦̭̳̗͖͙̼̜̩̖̹̤͓͔̈́ͫ̂͊ͩͮͤ̕͢͡ͅ ̴̡̰̙̙͕̩͈̩̻͕̰̠͑̅̔ͩ͛ͩ͆̂̀̋ͬ͂̑̔I̶̢͇̖͖̥̠̳̘͚̓͋ͮͮ̊̽ͯ̈̽̒̓ͮ͂ͨ́͠f̶̴̥̗̙̳̫̜̥̗̞̳̍̅̎̍̒̒ͮ̇̈̊̿̚̕ ̸̢͕͇̜̙̩̭̮̱̈̓͆ͨ̄ͥͮ̽ͧ́́͘ͅy̡̱͚̺͈̳̤̺̞͎̻̮̣̤̘͖̥̗̬͒̊̉̅̆ͧ́͛̌̑ͣ̿̾͋̊̀͜͟͡o͚̳̯͙̬̦͉͚͙̦ͣͥ̿̏̌ͩ͗͌̎̆ͫ̌̿ͫͩͥ̕͝ͅu̷̲̘̖̯͈ͪ̔̇ͥͧ̈́̓ͬ̓͑ͨ̋̓̃̅͜͜ͅ ̸̢̖͇̜͖̺̙̲͙̻̫̝̣̗̈ͦ́͞a̶̢̢̰̻̰͍͎͙̺̪̪ͯͯ̄̋ͮ̒͛̅ͬ͆͐ͧ̃ͬͤ͛ͯ͟r̷̟̦͈͈̥̤̖̤͔͎̤͉̜̼͇͇ͭ͂ͩ̔ͥ̀͋ͨ̈́̊͐̈̆͒̓̃̎́̕͘͝e̶̱͓̜͙ͩ͒ͪ̂͛̋͆̈̂̌̌̒̂̐ͪ͗̓͐͠͞ ̴ͦ̉̏̓ͨͬ̐̓͛ͦ̽ͮ̎̎̓͟͏̶͏͖̩͙͕̗̘͉̯̫̹̱̺̻̞͇á̴̧̮̹̜͓͕͒̽̈ͤͪͮ͋̊̑̔ͤ͂̉͑͛̚͜t̛ͪͮ̈́̋̉͏̮̫͓͙̲͔̼ ̴̵͎̫̝̼͈̰͇̑͋ͤͩͮ͘w̵̡̥̫͉̯̯̭̪͈̜͎̤͇̙͎͖̳̝͛̄̔ͯ͐̓̅ͩ͑̃ͤͥ̕͢a̵̡̡ͦͫ͊ͣ̍̓͐͒̈̒ͧ͌̉͛͏͖͕̜͉͉r̵̛̘̞͙͕̉̄̔́̉̓ͯ͌̾̓̄͞͡ ̨͊̇̊͏̛͓͕̘̤͟͞w̢͚͎̥̙̜̠̻̫̹̮̦͛̑͒͋̏͗̊͜͞i̸̶̧͖͈̥͚̭̰̦̞̫̥̬̰̝͍̬̗̦͚̲ͨͨ̉͟t̸̵̵͖̦͉͕̱͇̐͑ͧ̋͆̀̔ͯͨ͌͆̚ḧ̵̛͎̫̬̣̩͇̥̞̭̼̜̩͕̈̐̂̌̍̎ͬͭ͌͠ ̛̘̫͔̹͓̻̗̻̲͉̞̞͚̩̯̮ͪ̔̌̿̍ͦ̀ͥ̍̎̿ͨ̽̀́͢͠m̶̶̡̭͎͎̤̩̹̩̞͇̦̼̳̝̑̅̑͛̽ͭ̅̓̆̍ͫͮ́̄͘ͅeͬ̊ͨ͂̿ͨ̊͝҉̸̺̰̯̤͚̖͜ͅ,̡͎̖͇̙͎̿ͨ̆ͤ̑́͡ ̷̸̫̲͕̻̫̰͇̖̳̗̙ͮ́̓̉ͯͭ̀́͜ͅp̆͐ͥ̐͒ͦ̐͊̂̓̈̊̽ͫ͊̊̇ͨ͠͏̸̼̘̦̺͈̠̰̤͚̝͙̰̺̩̰r̛͙̩̭͚̞͇̩̥̼̦ͯ̇̃̐̂̔ͫͯͫ̏ͭͤ̑̀̽̾͗ͫ̓̀̕͡ͅe̛̳͖͚͇͎͑͑̓̍̓͗͗̓̄ͦ͠͝͡p̸̘̮͉̼̯̲̻͔͕͇͖͖̟̗̭̹̘͚̗ͩ͗͛̉͒ͥ̀̌̆ͩͤ̃ͨ̽̿͒ͨ͠͠a̸̷͒̒̍̀͗͑͜͏̱̘̘̲̮̯̳̘̀r͙̜̝̲̯̝͔̦̺̗͉͚͉͙͍̠̓ͦ͊̿ͬ̈ͪ͂̌̚͟͡͡ͅe̶̪̱̪̟̣͉͉̹͈̫͇̝̪̮̙ͯ͂̈̈̓ͦ̍̂̾̏ͪ̏ͭͧ͛ ̷̧̭̝̺̗̟ͬ̾̏ͫ̕t̷̵̡͓͔̜͙̘͈̲͈̳ͦ̊̇̽̅̄̀ͮ̒ͪ͆̑̓͊́͝ͅǫ̶͈̞͚̹̻̤̲̙͖̪̍̃̐̏ͦͪͦͤͩ̽̿̿ͮͪ̿̀͂̀͡ ̡̤̹̲̜̪̞̽̽̓ͥ̒ͨ͊̐ͫ͗ͫ̐̈́̑ͥ̕͢͡b̴̨̨̛̦͇̪̠̺͔͙̤̜̉͐̓̌̀͟ͅͅë̢̼͔̗̰̦̼̘̯̟̩͚́͗͆͒͋̀͆̑̋ͩ̉̒͊ͬ͊̃ͪ̆͊͟͡ ̵̡̛̳̜̦̱͎̞ͤͣ̏͒ͯ̇̈́͗ͮ̇̎ͬͧc̴͍̞̼̹ͨͭ̇̒͌͗̉ͥͥ͗̓̎̌̅͒ͭ̇̅́o̧̧̤̘͕̬̰̣͔͖̘̥͖̜̐ͥ́ͤ̒̔͘͠ͅņ̶̛͔͎͍͉ͪ̾̃ͦ͛̈́̒̅̒s̶̷̸̙͍̹͎̬̜̦̞̤̥̦̙̞̥͚͈̬̋̃͒ͮ͒ͪ̆ͩͯ̒͋̾̒̾͋̅͌̓͡ǔ̶͚͈̠̭̻̜̉ͪ́̓ͩͤ̅̌̌̈̍ͤ̾̌͛ͥ͗ͦ͟͜͞m̛̯̪̘͍̜͕͕̞̤͖͉͉͔̞͙͈͓̐ͦͯ̽ͬ͒̾ͣ̓̒̔͛ͤ̎̏̈͜͝è̵̱̜̯̙͔̜̝͙̼̬̤̥̒̒ͣ͒̈́͊̀́̕͟ḑ̧̅͂̈͌̔ͧͤ̋ͤ́́̒̂̋͗͆ͮ̚҉̙͚̬̻͎͚̤͞.̴̨̺̜̟̯̹̪͋̋͆ͫͧ̐̔ͩ̉͌̋͋͞

 

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2 minutes ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

Since you like to spin, not read, and only respond to the points you like.. you get a participation trophy and no further response.

Alex said it would be an issue, your leaders pushed it.  You want to use Senry's conversation as a talking point, then do so.  They knew.  There's no other real point to cover beyond that anymore.

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12 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Alex said it would be an issue, your leaders pushed it.  You want to use Senry's conversation as a talking point, then do so.  They knew.  There's no other real point to cover beyond that anymore.

Except that the very words were that it was not illegal behavior. So no, they didn't. And this is why the rules change is so essential. If it is stated the only permitted transactions for an in game benefit must occur through the purchasing system of the site.. you can't be any more clear than that.

You guys do what you want, I am only here to hang out. I have no real love of my nation here.. it just is. I am only telling you how you can prevent this mistake from recurring and make Alex's job easier. By making sure the rules are in an unquestionable state as to their intent with no loop holes, which is what my suggestion does, everyone's life gets a little easier.. those seeking compliance and rules adjudicators.

Or you can let this partisan crap show keep going and make no improvement and likely see repetition from future parties as this slowly fades from the forums.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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>!

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Perhaps after a few weeks to cool off, Sheepy could give those who deleted a window to restore their nations and old leaders to get unbanned if certain conditions were met. Given the response. 

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2 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

You are such a spinster.

1. Alex did not think deeply enough into what he was allowing passive permission for. He indicated it was a known mechanics problem and probably should/will be nerfed. This happens in games alll the time. And yes, min/maxers exploit those mechanics in the existing rule-set.. legally.. until the dev fixes it. There was no indication the act was illegal by the fact it was said it wasn't a moderation concern/problem.

2. I indicated/showed nothing. That content is already in Alex's logs.

3. You obviously do not read as that is not at all what happened. He did finally get into a group chat with the NPO alliance leadership... months later.. the ones who knew what were happening.. not the people in the alliance who might have had half-a-clue and they made their case and he plowed through it with his own information gathering and made it a point that the activity they participated in, he now interpreted as illegal and subject to moderation since he then knew the full extent of it. 

There is a lack of general consistency.. I've given the solution for it. I am not saying the NPO is clean in this, they did push to the fringe a mechanic they knew was considered a problem, but again, this does, legally happen in quite a few games until the issue is corrected. The problem is that Alex, probably because he was unaware of the full potential for its deployment, did say the behavior was allowed within moderation standards indicating he would not take action....

However, he has.

This is why when you're establishing a game like this you have to really try to get ahead of your players and anticipate. People will push the boundaries.

I agree that the rules where not clear.

 

Giving members access to a restricted area of your discord server or website where content is available in exchange, and as incentive to,  join/stay in your community and remain in active standing isn't clearly an exchanges of real-life money or goods for in-game materials, including but not limited to: in-game money, and in-game resources.

 

I'm also kind of shocked by this response:

10 hours ago, Alex said:

The rules were never in error, and to my knowledge, I was never in the wrong. No one told me what was going on, and if your entire defense is one vague question on "fairness philosophy" (obviously not a specific inquiry about the rules) and what my "gut reaction" would be, that's ridiculous.

Not quite sure what to make of it ...

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19 minutes ago, Epi said:

Perhaps after a few weeks to cool off, Sheepy could give those who deleted a window to restore their nations and old leaders to get unbanned if certain conditions were met. Given the response. 

Pretty sure their smear campaign ruined this opportunity.

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41 minutes ago, Epi said:

Perhaps after a few weeks to cool off, Sheepy could give those who deleted a window to restore their nations and old leaders to get unbanned if certain conditions were met. Given the response. 

Deleted nations are gone forever and removed from the server. Everything is lost on deletion. 

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27 minutes ago, Blink said:

Deleted nations are gone forever and removed from the server. Everything is lost on deletion. 

I would assume that sheepy keeps some kind of backup that he'd be able to restore their nations from even if it's not typically done

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7 minutes ago, Madokami said:

I would assume that sheepy keeps some kind of backup that he'd be able to restore their nations from even if it's not typically done

He told me it's not really possible/too difficult so I don't expect it will ever be done. 

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1 hour ago, Epi said:

Perhaps after a few weeks to cool off, Sheepy could give those who deleted a window to restore their nations and old leaders to get unbanned if certain conditions were met. Given the response. 

After the Google review nonsense and doxing, the people with temporary bans should be grateful that they can still serve out their time and that their bans didn't become permanent. Their friends certainly did their best to make Alex as unsympathetic and hostile as possible by trying to go after his income and reputation. 

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4 hours ago, Maelstrom Vortex said:

It was pretty much spelled out.. verbatim. From the logs. I see that as a Mechanics.. not a moderation issue...

 

verbatim.jpg

you all weren't content creators... illegal translations are not owned by the illegal translators...

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42 minutes ago, William of Cobden said:

Giving members access to a restricted area of your discord server or website where content is available in exchange, and as incentive to,  join/stay in your community and remain in active standing isn't clearly an exchanges of real-life money or goods for in-game materials, including but not limited to: in-game money, and in-game resources.

Well, it wasn't an incentive. It was the entire selling point. It wasn't a little bit extra on top, but rather, the sole reason for joining and occasionally logging in.

I also take issue with the rest of the wording. Basically, it reads as "Well, if they give them the stuff hand to hand it's clearly bad, but if it just so happens that you gotta walk down the alleyway, turn right, get past security, and then grab the stuff laying on top of the table, it isn't so clear then." No. At it's core, it's still a trade of a good (the translated comics) for in-game resources (the tax revenue). That the good was gatekept behind a restricted channel that required occasional log-ins every now and then (which is necessary for that racket to have functioned; if it was just a .zip download, continued engagement from the farms wouldn't have been possible), and that the resources were acquired passively through tax revenue, rather than a one-time lump-sum payment, is not enough of a deviation to make the rules unclear.

Furthermore, this isn't the only rule that was broken. It also broke the following rule (as stated by Alex himself):
 

Quote

Fairness in Trading & Banking

Prices and amounts in trades are generally at the player's discretion. In instances where trades and banks are used to funnel money and/or resources from one nation to another, where one nation has no intention to continue playing the game is a bannable offense.

That violation is not in any way, shape or form unclear, given the logs of NPO members/govt telling the Guineas not to bother playing (Pages 7 and 8 of the document).

As for contents vs goods; a content is simply something contained within something else. For example, the contents within a bottle of water. This doesn't change the fact that the water being sold, is, in fact, a good in on itself. It's the same thing here. The translated comics were contents to be found within that Discord channel, but they nonetheless were the goods being traded for the engagement, and therefore, resources.

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2 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

Well, it wasn't an incentive. It was the entire selling point. It wasn't a little bit extra on top, but rather, the sole reason for joining and occasionally logging in.

 

It's still not a direct trade of in-game materials for out of game materials.  It's incentive to join the game and remain in active standing.  Those are two different things.

 

5 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

Furthermore, this isn't the only rule that was broken. It also broke the following rule (as stated by Alex himself):
 

That violation is not in any way, shape or form unclear, given the logs of NPO members/govt telling the Guineas not to bother playing (Pages 7 and 8 of the document).

Fairness in Trading & Banking

Prices and amounts in trades are generally at the player's discretion. In instances where trades and banks are used to funnel money and/or resources from one nation to another, where one nation has no intention to continue playing the game is a bannable offense.

As for contents vs goods; a content is simply something contained within something else. For example, the contents within a bottle of water. This doesn't change the fact that the water being sold, is, in fact, a good in on itself. It's the same thing here. The translated comics were contents to be found within that Discord channel, but they nonetheless were the goods being traded for the engagement, and therefore, resources.

 

I find it hard to believe every top alliance isn't doing something like this on a fairly regular basis.

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1 minute ago, William of Cobden said:

It's still not a direct trade of in-game materials for out of game materials.  It's incentive to join the game and remain in active standing.  Those are two different things.

It's not. And repeating what you said whilst ignoring the rest of my explanation won't make your statement any truer.

4 minutes ago, William of Cobden said:

I find it hard to believe every top alliance isn't doing something like this on a fairly regular basis.

Whataboutism is not a valid defence. Only an admission that you don't have anything better to cough up as a would-be defence.

Alex shares a similar sentiment on the closing notes of his document, where he encourages people to write up similar reports of other alliances potentially running something similar.

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