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Account hacking (Leo)


Guest Elijah Mikaelson
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11 minutes ago, Micchan said:

Ok I will talk about the bot in another thread

Let's talk about the fact that no one logged in with Leo's account other than him, so who removed the players?

From what you said can be only Leo, could be he saw the money gone and did that trying to have George banned? Then you should give him at least some kind of warning if not a ban for faking a report I think

If the players were removed and the money "stolen" at the same then it's not Leo's fault and we have two options, George did more than what we know or BKnet does more than what we know, can you check if the things happened at the same time?

At least from my POV, there’s a small disconnect in what we’ve been told, whether Leo has sole access of his nation or a multitude of people. I mean, Alex has frequently mentioned that no one new has accessed the nation. Does that the nation has been under control of multiple people across different IPs, and that the latest BKnet problems were from an existing user of his nation, or is it a case of Leo’s nation not being accessed by anyone but him?

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3 minutes ago, Cypher said:

At least from my POV, there’s a small disconnect in what we’ve been told, whether Leo has sole access of his nation or a multitude of people. I mean, Alex has frequently mentioned that no one new has accessed the nation. Does that the nation has been under control of multiple people across different IPs, and that the latest BKnet problems were from an existing user of his nation, or is it a case of Leo’s nation not being accessed by anyone but him?

Anyone but him = faked a report, Alex will decide what's the best thing to do

More players using the same account = 100% ban

More people using the same account it's a strange situation, I think it's ok if multiple people play with the same account without having another account

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2 hours ago, Micchan said:

Anyone but him = faked a report, Alex will decide what's the best thing to do

More players using the same account = 100% ban

More people using the same account it's a strange situation, I think it's ok if multiple people play with the same account without having another account

Ya this needs to be talked about more. Obviously if someone hacked the game they should have been banned but falsly accusing someone should also carry punishment

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So out of curiosity, and completely ignoring the out-of-game crimes involved in this hypothetical scenario, if someone had gone to Leo's house and broken into it, then gotten into his computer and used Leo's already logged in account to do all of these things, would that be considered a violation of the game rules by the person doing it, if there were a way to identify them?

Because from the perspective of the game that's identical to what happened here, and that doesn't sit well with me at all.

Also, all the people posting in this thread acting like a security breach in another player's system is actually a good thing because you don't like that player are total scumbags, and this type of shit is why you're continuing to get rolled right now. Just sayin.

Edited by Teaspoon
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5 minutes ago, Teaspoon said:

So out of curiosity, and completely ignoring the out-of-game crimes involved in this hypothetical scenario, if someone had gone to Leo's house and broken into it, then gotten into his computer and used Leo's already logged in account to do all of these things, would that be considered a violation of the game rules by the person doing it, if there were a way to identify them?

In the current scenario though, its more like Leo gave his house keys to x number of his friends and someone who regularly goes to his house, with his full trust, went there without Leo's knowledge and took some items from his fridge.

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1 hour ago, Viselli said:

Ya this needs to be talked about more. Obviously if someone hacked the game they should have been banned but falsly accusing someone should also carry punishment

The point is no actual hacking was done. Warped logic to conclude that Leo thus did it himself. 

As for falsly accusing someone, every item brought before moderation and being denied should then be punished, for example if you claim alex is a mean and evil moderator that prefer goons, evidence shows the opposite is true and the whiner/claimer ignores that, he should/could be banned 4fa. 

I dont agree to that but if alex wills it so, who am I to disagree?

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9 hours ago, Bjorn Ironside said:


Alex states no one hacked his account so yeah he did it himself

[citation needed]. Still haven't backed up your claims

Edited by Shadowthrone
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On 1/12/2020 at 8:01 PM, The Mad Titan said:

yyyyAll this post says is he used 3rd party software to access my account. Still a violation of game rules.

Well shit Leo, I guess you have a couple of choices here.

1. Have Alex ban everyone that has used BK.NET to deposit and withdraw money and/or resources for accessing your account and ban you as well for letting other people have access to your account.

2. Admit that you are once again lying out your ass.

On 1/13/2020 at 1:57 PM, Bjorn Ironside said:

no one has proven Gorge logged on to Leo's account, all that has been proven is Gorge used the BK banking program to send himself money, no one has proven Gorge logged on to Leo's account.

You don't log into anyone's P&W account. You log in to your BK.NET account, fill out the transaction you wish to execute. Then BK.NET uses whoever's account is linked to it to send the money/resources to the nation requesting them. The nation in question has no access to anyone else's P&W account. Now it is possible that BK grants their high government members to have more commands in BK.NET and if that is the case they should have removed georges access to those commands (if any) when he left. Given how paranoid BK is about virtually everything  I find it hard to believe they wouldn't do so as soon as he left.

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Guest Elijah Mikaelson
25 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

[citation needed]. Still haven't backed up your claims

No one in BK, NPO or GOONs backed up your (being your side) claim that gorge hacked Leo's account yet still made that claim, maybe you should practice what you preach.

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3 hours ago, Teaspoon said:

So out of curiosity, and completely ignoring the out-of-game crimes involved in this hypothetical scenario, if someone had gone to Leo's house and broken into it, then gotten into his computer and used Leo's already logged in account to do all of these things, would that be considered a violation of the game rules by the person doing it, if there were a way to identify them?

Because from the perspective of the game that's identical to what happened here, and that doesn't sit well with me at all.

Also, all the people posting in this thread acting like a security breach in another player's system is actually a good thing because you don't like that player are total scumbags, and this type of shit is why you're continuing to get rolled right now. Just sayin.

Before you continue on this argument, may want to brush up on your fallacies.

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1 hour ago, Teaspoon said:

Why would I want to do that when I don't post any? ?

You are misrepresenting the argument by presenting it in a way that resembles the original claim, but isn't.  Whether you stated it's a hypothetical or not, you ended it with the obvious claim of your perspective and how it doesn't sit well with you.

Edited by Buorhann
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15 hours ago, Micchan said:

Let's talk about the fact that no one logged in with Leo's account other than him, so who removed the players?

From what you said can be only Leo, could be he saw the money gone and did that trying to have George banned? Then you should give him at least some kind of warning if not a ban for faking a report I think

If the players were removed and the money "stolen" at the same then it's not Leo's fault and we have two options, George did more than what we know or BKnet does more than what we know, can you check if the things happened at the same time?

From my understanding, the "BKnet" has the ability to remove inactive players, and that was used in some unintended way to remove the players who were removed. I don't think anyone is responsible for that other than @The Mad Titan and whoever created the "BKnet" web app.

15 hours ago, Micchan said:

Anyone but him = faked a report, Alex will decide what's the best thing to do

I don't think that the report was faked. My read of the situation is that @The Mad Titan did not realize that the actions were done through his account through the "BKnet" software he authorized, and he legitimately thought that his account was "hacked." I think he made the report in good faith, and I think that not understand what the "BKnet" software does is really at the root of the whole issue here (cause of the problem, cause of the report.)

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12 hours ago, Teaspoon said:

So out of curiosity, and completely ignoring the out-of-game crimes involved in this hypothetical scenario, if someone had gone to Leo's house and broken into it, then gotten into his computer and used Leo's already logged in account to do all of these things, would that be considered a violation of the game rules by the person doing it, if there were a way to identify them?

Because from the perspective of the game that's identical to what happened here, and that doesn't sit well with me at all.

Also, all the people posting in this thread acting like a security breach in another player's system is actually a good thing because you don't like that player are total scumbags, and this type of shit is why you're continuing to get rolled right now. Just sayin.

I'm not the police, so no, in that scenario I would not consider it a violation of the Game Rules.

If you could provide sufficient evidence, i.e. a police report and confession or some other proof that someone else made the actions on your account, I would consider "undoing" what happened.

Ultimately, though, it's not my job to make sure everyone keeps their accounts secure. If you posted your e-mail and password on the forum for anyone to access your account, and someone used your information to do something malicious to your account, I wouldn't spend all my time undoing the activity, I'd say it's your fault for authorizing others to access your account and you will have to live with the consequences.

Now, account sharing / having multiple nations is against the rules. In the above scenario, we're presuming that whoever is accessing the account does not have a nation (or that there isn't any evidence to prove who did it.)

If the above scenario happened, and then someone posted and admitted that they accessed the account to do whatever, they would be liable for a ban under the no multiple nations rule.

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10 hours ago, Alex said:

I'm not the police, so no, in that scenario I would not consider it a violation of the Game Rules.

If you could provide sufficient evidence, i.e. a police report and confession or some other proof that someone else made the actions on your account, I would consider "undoing" what happened.

Ultimately, though, it's not my job to make sure everyone keeps their accounts secure. If you posted your e-mail and password on the forum for anyone to access your account, and someone used your information to do something malicious to your account, I wouldn't spend all my time undoing the activity, I'd say it's your fault for authorizing others to access your account and you will have to live with the consequences.

Now, account sharing / having multiple nations is against the rules. In the above scenario, we're presuming that whoever is accessing the account does not have a nation (or that there isn't any evidence to prove who did it.)

If the above scenario happened, and then someone posted and admitted that they accessed the account to do whatever, they would be liable for a ban under the no multiple nations rule.

Please review:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act

 

Some of the positions you've taken here go against how CFAA is typically decided. I'd suggest asking a lawyer for clarification.

Queen of Chaos

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11 hours ago, Alex said:

I'm not the police, so no, in that scenario I would not consider it a violation of the Game Rules.

If you could provide sufficient evidence, i.e. a police report and confession or some other proof that someone else made the actions on your account, I would consider "undoing" what happened.

Ultimately, though, it's not my job to make sure everyone keeps their accounts secure. If you posted your e-mail and password on the forum for anyone to access your account, and someone used your information to do something malicious to your account, I wouldn't spend all my time undoing the activity, I'd say it's your fault for authorizing others to access your account and you will have to live with the consequences.

Now, account sharing / having multiple nations is against the rules. In the above scenario, we're presuming that whoever is accessing the account does not have a nation (or that there isn't any evidence to prove who did it.)

If the above scenario happened, and then someone posted and admitted that they accessed the account to do whatever, they would be liable for a ban under the no multiple nations rule.

I'm kinda baffled by this, honestly, because it almost sounds like you're giving carte blanche permission for people to do what certain crazy people keep accusing GOONS of doing: distributing viruses to people through platforms like Discord which do things like delete people's nations via their own computers.

As long as it doesn't use your platform, you aren't gonna take any action against people who do stuff like this at all? Or even restore the deleted/transfered stuff to its owner?

Edited by Teaspoon
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18 hours ago, Teaspoon said:

I'm kinda baffled by this, honestly, because it almost sounds like you're giving carte blanche permission for people to do what certain crazy people keep accusing GOONS of doing: distributing viruses to people through platforms like Discord which do things like delete people's nations via their own computers.

As long as it doesn't use your platform, you aren't gonna take any action against people who do stuff like this at all? Or even restore the deleted/transfered stuff to its owner?

I don't see any proof that anyone accessed @The Mad Titan's account except for himself and some web-app he authorized by giving his username/password. Why would I get involved when all actions taken were either directly or tacitly approved by the player themselves?

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27 minutes ago, Alex said:

I don't see any proof that anyone accessed @The Mad Titan's account except for himself and some web-app he authorized by giving his username/password. Why would I get involved when all actions taken were either directly or tacitly approved by the player themselves?

So is that a yes, then? Hypothetically speaking, if I were to infect someone's computer with a virus that makes them delete their nation automatically the next time they log in, you will take no action because it appears to you that all actions taken were tacitly approved by the player, and I will not get in any trouble if there's no proof I did it?

I'm sure all the people in this thread cheering on what happened to BK would absolutely LOVE that. ?

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I think that given the evidence we have, we can believe with certainty that this "King William III" hacked Leo, and it's George.


However, given the jurisprudence practice of PnW, Alex can't prove it and "King William III", according to the rules and T&C, didn't do anything wrong as the criminal infringement occurred on Leo's computer, not the game servers.


Then again, Pooball didn't do anything wrong according to the rules and T&C, and merely exploited a bug to generate infinite money.

.

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53 minutes ago, Inst said:

I think that given the evidence we have, we can believe with certainty that this "King William III" hacked Leo, and it's George.


However, given the jurisprudence practice of PnW, Alex can't prove it and "King William III", according to the rules and T&C, didn't do anything wrong as the criminal infringement occurred on Leo's computer, not the game servers.


Then again, Pooball didn't do anything wrong according to the rules and T&C, and merely exploited a bug to generate infinite money.

If you felt a crime was committed and you have 'proof' of it please contact your local law enforcement or the FBI. Otherwise, quit slandering King  WIlliam III with 'criminal act' implications

Edited by James II

"Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates

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@James II

 

Do not be an ignoramus. Law enforcement and the FBI typically are quite lazy when it comes to cybercrimes, especially when no RL monetary value is involved.

 

Hacking is extremely hard to track and prove, especially if proxies are involved or the perpetrators are in other countries (which is quite easy with online activities).

 

https://www.cio.com/article/2402264/why-law-enforcement-can-t-stop-hackers.html

Edited by Inst

.

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3 minutes ago, Inst said:

@James II

 

Do not be an ignoramus. Law enforcement and the FBI typically are quite lazy when it comes to cybercrimes, especially when no RL monetary value is involved.

 

Hacking is extremely hard to track and prove, especially if proxies are involved or the perpetrators are in other countries (which is quite easy with online activities).

 

https://www.cio.com/article/2402264/why-law-enforcement-can-t-stop-hackers.html

You claim you have proof and you claim it's a crime. You obviously don't. Quit slandering people.

"Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates

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7 minutes ago, James II said:

You claim you have proof and you claim it's a crime. You obviously don't. Quit slandering people.

On Discord, I've already leaked to your members the relevant screenshots (but screenshots can be faked!). So can logs! Blah blah blah.

.

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14 minutes ago, Inst said:

On Discord, I've already leaked to your members the relevant screenshots (but screenshots can be faked!). So can logs! Blah blah blah.

I've seen logs and screen shots but I see no proof of hacking. Only that Gorge knew he had the ability to do so to remove BK members via a third party log in to Leo's account that he was given access to by Leo.

Edited by James II

"Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates

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