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Guest Curufinwe
11 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Also where his government supported the said action, and James was the first to come up with a "counter-argument" to the whole thing, claiming Leo's done it in the past to escape reps. I'm still trying to remember when Leo ever led BK during a war where we negotiated reps. Wasn't that Yoso and then you @Curufinwe? Something fishy about his timelines. 

To my knowledge, BK has never paid reps following a major war (we have only had one that didn't end in at least white peace for our side and no reps were paid in Tiers that I recall).  We have paid reps to other AAs when our people raided them mistakenly (which, I mean, does happen), but we certainly never tried to disband BK to avoid paying back raiding damages.  The idea that we'd randomly disband the AA on a whim is pretty far-fetched to begin with (especially considering the effort myself and other people had to put in getting in touch with everyone as quickly as possible to let them know what happened), but this supposed precedent James is citing is non-existent as far as I am aware.

7 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

I’m a little confused that this is even a debatable topic. OOC is OOC and IC is IC. When you make an attempt to hurt someone OOC it’s not okay, even for IC reasons. This is a game.

Some of you are taking this game a little too serious and seem to be forgetting that there are actual people behind the keyboard.
 

The BKnet attack was no bueno.

Thanks - that's appreciated.

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10 minutes ago, James II said:

About not planning to hit Chaos and KEETOG after they finished their war with each other. 

 

Maybe/maybe not. If Leo lied about that fine. But I daresay, most alliances would be lying publicly about their war plans and stuff that goes on in their back room. 

 

18 minutes ago, James II said:

Like I said I'm not going to bother fishing through the owf. I could present it to you and you would still deny it. Plus you aren't the target audience. You won't change your mind ever. You've made yourselves the victims for 7 months now.

I look forward to you try that though! Irrefutable proof is just that though, if it is so true, post it for all of us to see. 

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10 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Maybe/maybe not. If Leo lied about that fine. But I daresay, most alliances would be lying publicly about their war plans and stuff that goes on in their back room. 

 

I look forward to you try that though! Irrefutable proof is just that though, if it is so true, post it for all of us to see. 

You could take a page from your own book.

"Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates

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2 minutes ago, James II said:

You could take a page from your own book.

Curu has posted proof of where George discussed the actions, that occurred right after. I've posited that he's the most likely culprit behind this. I've also backed up almost all of my statements on fact, or information that I have at the time, and that is subject to change, as the facts eventually reveal themselves. But you're welcome to show me otherwise. 

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ONCE AGAIN, all evidence points to Gorge breaking into BKnet, an off-site program that didn't belong to him, in order to steal the bank. If George was innocent why would be bank all the stolen assets immediately within a 7 minute timeframe of receiving these assets while Leo was completely out/moving all day?

 image.jpeg.923b4d129de65f90310e10e9da30c0dc.jpeg

 

 

And don't be so cowardic to deny that by saying "no proofs." THAT IS THE PROOF, along with logs of Gorge claiming that he has the ability to steal BK's bank and ban all BK members just a day or so PRIOR to, exactly that description, actually occurring.

All the evidence points to Gorge  but:

But why are all the anti-BK people trying so hard to deny that it's Gorge??

ALEX won't take any actions to reprimand, ban, or reverse Gorge's actions-- even if it's openly stated to be Gorge or Gorge confesses.

 

Reason (and I actually support Alex's pro Gorge ruling:) Alex does not give a sh*t about off-site technology. He APPROVED/LEGALIZED the programs, he encourages it by saying like "anything that makes the game more convenient to play, go for it"  however, that's not on-site so he doesn't care if people's off-site programs get *breached*. Wanna know why?

 

It's because it didn't occur on his hardcoded servers. It's not Alex's responsibility to investigate every single programmer's security breach, in case PnW has 10000 coders who all get their programs breached, that's not on Alex, he has many vacations a girlfriend a house a car and has to run PnW itself, and also young, full time job, and the only admin (out of 2) on PnW- he's overworked.

 

so for Alex sake, I don't expect Alex to ban George for something that happened outside of his website

as for George yeah you did it oh well

 

Offsite program breaches = still bad though , but in a "not actionable by PnW" standard

 

 

though that does make me concerned

 

This is along the same logic as "would Alex ban a nation if that nation's user hacked or phished another nation's discord account?" Obviously Alex would NOT, what happened on discord is discord company's concern. 


That doesn't make it right

 

so yeah the moral of the story is, don't touch other people's programs without their permission xD

They're not yours. They worked hard on their code.

 

 

it won't get you banned from PnW that's for sure but that doesn't make it right 

PSA to all coders: Alex does NOT care if ANY of your off-site technology (Discord bots, stats websites, FORUMS, discord servers, anything outside the site,) gets  hacked or breached, so make sure to spoof your security 
 

good luck 

Edited by Yuno
forgot to add "full time job"
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8 minutes ago, Yuno said:

ONCE AGAIN, all evidence points to Gorge breaking into BKnet, an off-site program that didn't belong to him, in order to steal the bank. If George was innocent why would be bank all the stolen assets immediately within a 7 minute timeframe of receiving these assets while Leo was completely out/moving all day?

 image.jpeg.923b4d129de65f90310e10e9da30c0dc.jpeg

 

 

And don't be so cowardic to deny that by saying "no proofs." THAT IS THE PROOF, along with logs of Gorge claiming that he has the ability to steal BK's bank and ban all BK members just a day or so PRIOR to, exactly that description, actually occurring.

All the evidence points to Gorge  but:

But why are all the anti-BK people trying so hard to deny that it's Gorge??

ALEX won't take any actions to reprimand, ban, or reverse Gorge's actions-- even if it's openly stated to be Gorge or Gorge confesses.

 

Reason (and I actually support Alex's pro Gorge ruling:) Alex does not give a sh*t about off-site technology. He APPROVED/LEGALIZED the programs, he encourages it by saying like "anything that makes the game more convenient to play, go for it"  however, that's not on-site so he doesn't care if people's off-site programs get *breached*. Wanna know why?

 

It's because it didn't occur on his hardcoded servers. It's not Alex's responsibility to investigate every single programmer's security breach, in case PnW has 10000 coders who all get their programs breached, that's not on Alex, he has many vacations a girlfriend a house a car and has to run PnW itself, and also young, full time job, and the only admin (out of 2) on PnW- he's overworked.

 

so for Alex sake, I don't expect Alex to ban George for something that happened outside of his website

as for George yeah you did it oh well

 

Offsite program breaches = still bad though , but in a "not actionable by PnW" standard

 

 

though that does make me concerned

 

This is along the same logic as "would Alex ban a nation if that nation's user hacked or phished another nation's discord account?" Obviously Alex would NOT, what happened on discord is discord company's concern. 


That doesn't make it right

 

so yeah the moral of the story is, don't touch other people's programs without their permission xD

They're not yours. They worked hard on their code.

 

 

it won't get you banned from PnW that's for sure but that doesn't make it right 

PSA to all coders: Alex does NOT care if ANY of your off-site technology (Discord bots, stats websites, FORUMS, discord servers, anything outside the site,) gets  hacked or breached, so make sure to spoof your security 
 

good luck 

It wasn't hacked or breached. Leo gave access to his account to a lot of people. The only ips logged are from Leo's devices.

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"Most successful new AA" - Samuel Bates

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5 minutes ago, James II said:

It wasn't hacked or breached. Leo gave access to his account to a lot of people. The only ips logged are from Leo's devices.

Just out of curiosity how can other peoples ips show from Leo's devices?  If I understand right then the person would have to be at Leo's location using the same internet company using Leo's phone or what not. And just asking not judging and how do u see the ips on what is posted as well or how did u find the ips ? 

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Guest Curufinwe
1 minute ago, Yuno said:

ONCE AGAIN, all evidence points to Gorge breaking into BKnet, an off-site program that didn't belong to him, in order to steal the bank. If George was innocent why would be bank all the stolen assets immediately within a 7 minute timeframe of receiving these assets while Leo was completely out/moving all day?

 image.jpeg.923b4d129de65f90310e10e9da30c0dc.jpeg

 

 

And don't be so cowardic to deny that by saying "no proofs." THAT IS THE PROOF, along with logs of Gorge claiming that he has the ability to steal BK's bank and ban all BK members just a day or so PRIOR to, exactly that description, actually occurring.

All the evidence points to Gorge  but:

But why are all the anti-BK people trying so hard to deny that it's Gorge??

ALEX won't take any actions to reprimand, ban, or reverse Gorge's actions-- even if it's openly stated to be Gorge or Gorge confesses.

 

Reason (and I actually support Alex's pro Gorge ruling:) Alex does not give a sh*t about off-site technology. He APPROVED/LEGALIZED the programs, he encourages it by saying like "anything that makes the game more convenient to play, go for it"  however, that's not on-site so he doesn't care if people's off-site programs get *breached*. Wanna know why?

 

It's because it didn't occur on his hardcoded servers. It's not Alex's responsibility to investigate every single programmer's security breach, in case PnW has 10000 coders who all get their programs breached, that's not on Alex, he has many vacations a girlfriend a house a car and has to run PnW itself, and also young, and the only admin (out of 2) on PnW- he's overworked.

 

so for Alex sake, I don't expect Alex to ban George for something that happened outside of his website

as for George yeah you did it oh well

 

Offsite program breaches = still bad though , but in a "not actionable by PnW" standard

 

 

though that does make me concerned

 

This is along the same logic as "would Alex ban a nation if that nation's user hacked or phished another nation's discord account?" Obviously Alex would NOT, what happened on discord is discord company's concern. 


That doesn't make it right

 

so yeah the moral of the story is, don't touch other people's programs without their permission xD

They're not yours. They worked hard on their code.

 

 

it won't get you banned from PnW that's for sure but that doesn't make it right 

As an aside, the format of the transfers also lends credence to the idea that BKnet was used for the transactions, rather than someone logging directly into Leo's nation to empty the bank.  Gorge wouldn't have been able to see the bank contents using BKnet (as someone physically logged into Leo's nation would), so it was transferred out in a series of smaller transactions (200k food, then 500k food, then 100k food and so on) as he used trial and error to find a number that the system would accept (if he had put in 50m food and it wasn't there, the transaction would have bounced).  If Gorge had logged directly into Leo's nation, he could have moved everything at once and not bothering making a bunch of smaller transfers.  So yeah, the fact that he used BKNet without our consent to rob/boot our members is presumably why Alex didn't find in-game markers for Gorge's actions, since it's third party software that he wouldn't have access to as admin of PW.

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@keshav @elijah

I have full logs but can't be arsed to check, you two need to get over  that fight. 

Keshav dropped the F Bomb a lot (like "F that") 

and Elijah said an extremely savage OOC attack at the end there.

this fight happened weeks ago and luckily it was confined to DMs only and literally nothing came out of that due to the wise use of the block button by both parties but dredging that onto the forums, lol eh. 

Just don't make any more OOC attacks in the future.
 

if someone's stressed and hotheaded, step away from the computer or put down your phone , say "brb" for 20 minutes or longer.

(Cooper and I have been working on some advisory guidelines that can help at least somewhat with that, though I might write something else a bit more straightforward for the bad at reading people.) 

 

 

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Hey could you guys stop reading chat logs that were never meant to be viewed by outside eyes, there's irl info I don't want you guys to see, thank you in advance for being true to your morals.

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Guest Curufinwe
3 minutes ago, REAP3R said:

Hey could you guys stop reading chat logs that were never meant to be viewed by outside eyes, there's irl info I don't want you guys to see, thank you in advance for being true to your morals.

I mean if you're allied to tCW, leaks are a fact of life.  It's probably best to lean into at this point.

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Just now, Curufinwe said:

I mean if you're allied to tCW, leaks are a fact of life.  It's probably best to lean into at this point.

Wow are you telling me you're not gonna be true to your morals

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Look up to the sky above~

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6 minutes ago, REAP3R said:

Hey could you guys stop reading chat logs that were never meant to be viewed by outside eyes, there's irl info I don't want you guys to see, thank you in advance for being true to your morals.

If you're talking about me, well the one I read was a chatlog of a verbal battle over in-game money xD It didn't have IRL info 

I did wish for "cool it" though 

Edited by Yuno
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15 minutes ago, REAP3R said:

Hey could you guys stop reading chat logs that were never meant to be viewed by outside eyes, there's irl info I don't want you guys to see, thank you in advance for being true to your morals.

If you mean in general, I agree actually

the entire Coalition B discord server was logged by George and posted by someone, whose name I forgot, onto the forums (OOC info included) before they all got smarter and redacted all the OOC info.

I believe a similar thing happened here (without the forum post) but I'm not sure. With a Coalition A server (that's where I assume the leaks about George came out about breaking into BKnet. Ok James you can say "George already had an account so it's not breaking in" but apparently the BKnet admins say, "dummy account he wasn't supposed to have/access to, backdoor"... either way, eh.) 

anyway yeah I'm against discord logging unless it's *really relevant* to me (for example, if my boyfriend is cheating on me by flirting on another discord server I'm not in, lol. <<<<<not speaking from experience I swear )

but it's still something I feel icky/iffy about and , yeah I relate to where you're coming from 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Yuno
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Guest Curufinwe
1 minute ago, REAP3R said:

Wow are you telling me you're not gonna be true to your morals

Well unlike Gorge, who dumped the unedited contents of our coalition server on the OWF without bothering to excise OOC content, we've only provided two snippets of the logs to substantiate our claims when more evidence was requested by Cypher.  I can't say providing evidence that clears Leo of the false charges that the removal of our members was some sort of hoax makes me feel particularly immoral, but that's me.  I'll also point out that it appears you were also in the channel where this was discussed, so you could have helped clear this up by letting us know what Gorge said at any time, or even tried to warn us about what was happening like @Cooper_ did.  Perhaps we understand morality in different ways though.

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20 minutes ago, James II said:

It wasn't hacked or breached. Leo gave access to his account to a lot of people. The only ips logged are from Leo's devices.

You have obtained access to the account of Leo, pick your action:

1. Tell Leo about it and act in good faith.

2. Screw that good faith shit, steal their alliance bank then return it because you are a good person, but kick 60% of the alliances memberbase cause lulz

An easy choice, who would even consider picking 1. for even a second.

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1 minute ago, Curufinwe said:

Well unlike Gorge, who dumped the unedited contents of our coalition server on the OWF without bothering to excise OOC content, we've only provided two snippets of the logs to substantiate our claims when more evidence was requested by Cypher.  I can't say providing evidence that clears Leo of the false charges that the removal of our members was some sort of hoax makes me feel particularly immoral, but that's me.  I'll also point out that it appears you were also in the channel where this was discussed, so you could have helped clear this up by letting us know what Gorge said at any time, or even tried to warn us about what was happening like @Cooper_ did.  Perhaps we understand morality in different ways though.

I don't want you reading irl information that you were never supposed to read tyvm. Unless you justify taking an eye for an eye, in which case, I shame you for ever abandoning your morals, how could you, DESPICABLE!

Look up to the sky above~

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Thank god we have 7 different coalition servers intertwining and overlapping. The joke's on you- the server that leaked happens to be 1/7 in content where I come across as an angel and a voice of reason.

 

Still on my moral high ground. Up yours!

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19 minutes ago, REAP3R said:

Hey could you guys stop reading chat logs that were never meant to be viewed by outside eyes, there's irl info I don't want you guys to see, thank you in advance for being true to your morals.

Leaks are a fact of life here. People only took issue over dumping months of private conversations completely unfiltered.

I'm sure you're aware of this however, and would ask you not to play dumb about what's right and wrong, North Point member, but you're probably too busy handing out "free beige" to your coalition mates to listen. 

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4 hours ago, James II said:

How about we get back on topic about how BK faked being hacked to try and get the game rolled back pre-blitz

Blitz?

 

This happened more than 24 hours after a "blitz", if you can call it that.

"Don't argue with members of The Golden Horde. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - Probably someone on OWF.

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2 minutes ago, Salt Meat said:

Leaks are a fact of life here. People only took issue over dumping months of private conversations completely unfiltered.

I'm sure you're aware of this however, and would ask you not to play dumb about what's right and wrong, North Point member, but you're probably too busy handing out "free beige" to your coalition mates to listen. 

Regardless of my morality, does that give you any right to abandon yours?

Those logs were never meant for anyone's eyes except our own, that includes irl information, so please keep your grubby eyes away from them, thank you

Edited by REAP3R

Look up to the sky above~

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1 minute ago, REAP3R said:

Regardless of my morality, does that give you any right to abandon yours?

Those logs were never meant for anyone's eyes except our own, that includes irl information, so please keep your grubby eyes away from them, thank you

Yeah cool just completely ignore the point.

Nobody cared about Col B logs getting out. It happens. What they took issue with was dumping the entire server; months worth of conversation, on the forums without filtering through it first.

If that happens here, let me know, but as of right now nobody cares about the leak, or your fake outrage.

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