Unacceptable Behavior

[Shadowthrone]

1 minute ago, James II said:

He allowed multiple people to access his account. 

Nope. Doesn't work that way.

[James II]

Just now, Shadowthrone said:

Nope. Doesn't work that way.

So people do not use a bot to take actions through Leo's nation? Like bank withdrawals? 

[Guest Elijah Mikaelson]

17 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

No one shared their account, but keep peddling that too. I enjoy how every time one asks you for when was the last time Leo "faked a hack" to get out of reps as you keep claiming, you deflect to other arguments. So you're talking out of your ass again. Nice of you James. Was illuminating how everyone else bought that defense without any proof whatsoever. Still awaiting that proof. 

In this case, BKNet was breached by George. Own it. If you're okay with that behaviour its fine, just accept it, proclaim it and move on. Your attempts at deflection is cute, while accusing us of doing the things you're seemingly fine with anyway. 

So George did all the above, it's all wrong, but it's okay since it's BK. Got it. Quite the pivot EM. 

No lies here. In case one, Leo asked Alex to see if his nation was accessed by someone else. Alex said nothing was seen except BKNet stuff. So it happened via BKNet. Where in that is a lie? Especially when you just conceded George did all of the above that Leo said he did? 

 

I don't see BK crying. I see BK coming back and constantly rebuilding, every time George has pulled some stuff. If anything their community is resilient and stand for something. Something you never will be able to do, whatever little micro you attempt to lead. 

 

This is something we understand perfectly well. Maybe that's why there is no peace to be had at the moment  

Cooper himself admitted the said conversation took place. I'll let Curu drop the logs. 

sorry hardly understood what you was trying to say, you need a tissue to wipe away those tears?

1 minute ago, Shadowthrone said:

Nope. Doesn't work that way.

yes it does, even people from other alliances using BKnet will log leo on his account to do trades, send resources even kick people

6 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

It's not general nature. It's a figment of your imagination. 

 

The nature of said bot was discussed with Alex when it was conceived and put into place and Alex okayed it. It isn't bannable, BK followed protocol and the game admin okayed it. Moreover, Leo didn't "share his account", but the intricacies of the bot itself seems to be so misunderstood its hilarious.

I called you a liar before, here you are proving you are a lair lol 

[Shadowthrone]

Just now, James II said:

So people do not use a bot to take actions through Leo's nation? Like bank withdrawals? 

They don't have access to his nation. It's a third party add-on, that allows folks to put in requests to it, and Leo's nation sends it out. As simple as that. Had no alliance management stuff, nothing else. It's quite simple. 

Heck I'm still learning it could be used to kick folks, only because George brought it up. Was news to me and Leo. Hence the request to check with Alex if someone accessed his account in game. 

[Guest Elijah Mikaelson]

1 minute ago, Shadowthrone said:

They don't have access to his nation. It's a third party add-on, that allows folks to put in requests to it, and Leo's nation sends it out. As simple as that. Had no alliance management stuff, nothing else. It's quite simple. 

Heck I'm still learning it could be used to kick folks, only because George brought it up. Was news to me and Leo. Hence the request to check with Alex if someone accessed his account in game. 

Liar 

[Shadowthrone]

2 minutes ago, Bjorn Ironside said:

sorry hardly understood what you was trying to say, you need a tissue to wipe away those tears?

Yes telling you to own the fact you're okay with actions like is tears. Great rebuttal, much vow. 

3 minutes ago, Bjorn Ironside said:

yes it does, even people from other alliances using BKnet will log leo on his account to do trades, send resources even kick people

Nope. You put your request onto BKNet, and Leo's nation will forward it. At no point did we physically log in. 

It definitely didn't have a component to kick people when it came out. News to me, but thanks George! 

3 minutes ago, Bjorn Ironside said:

I called you a liar before, here you are proving you are a lair lol 

I'm a liar is it? Leo has claimed he was hacked before to escape reps? Please show me where. 

1 minute ago, Bjorn Ironside said:

Liar 

Haha. Says the guy who's misrepresenting how BKNet/Ayybank worked. Good job. 

[James II]

6 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

They don't have access to his nation. It's a third party add-on, that allows folks to put in requests to it, and Leo's nation sends it out. As simple as that. Had no alliance management stuff, nothing else. It's quite simple. 

Heck I'm still learning it could be used to kick folks, only because George brought it up. Was news to me and Leo. Hence the request to check with Alex if someone accessed his account in game. 

So they would send the action and in response to that# action Leo's nation would do something without Leo actually having to log in? This giving them control over his nation to some extent without him being able to say yes or no? No manual input is required from Leo correct?

[Guest Elijah Mikaelson]

1 minute ago, Shadowthrone said:

Yes telling you to own the fact you're okay with actions like is tears. Great rebuttal, much vow. 

Nope. You put your request onto BKNet, and Leo's nation will forward it. At no point did we physically log in. 

It definitely didn't have a component to kick people when it came out. News to me, but thanks George! 

I'm a liar is it? Leo has claimed he was hacked before to escape reps? Please show me where. 

Haha. Says the guy who's misrepresenting how BKNet/Ayybank worked. Good job. 

Again another lie, I never misrepresented anything, prove me wrong liar.

Who said you log on the account, We are talking about how the bot works, you claim it didnt work that way but it does you force the bot to log on therefore causing the actions damn you lie so much

Who said Leo did it to avoid reps? I said he has done it before "claim to have been hacked" seems you know more about than me and just lying about it

I am very disappointment someone like you who claims to be honourable and truthful so willingly lying, it is a shame really, when we was talking about the deal with BK it was shocking the comments you made, the lies you told and more to the point the ooc remarks you made, I am not sure why i waste my time talking to the likes of you to go so dark and so deep in to someones irl just to cause pain and lie about it, so sick 

[Shadowthrone]

2 minutes ago, James II said:

So they would send the action and in response to that# action Leo's nation would do something without Leo actually having to log in? This giving them control over his nation to some extent without him being able to say yes or no? No manual input is required from Leo correct?

That's more on point. It's more an interface, that we put the amounts in, Leo's nation sends it out. There's no direct connection between user and Leo's nation. We don't have his nation details, access to his physical nation on the Politics and War page, and most definitely do not have access to his alliance management permissions. All of which folks keep conflating into this argument. 

 

4 minutes ago, Bjorn Ironside said:

Again another lie, I never misrepresented anything, prove me wrong liar.

Who said you log on the account, We are talking about how the bot works, you claim it didnt work that way but it does you force the bot to log on therefore causing the actions damn you lie so much

Who said Leo did it to avoid reps? I said he has done it before "claim to have been hacked" seems you know more about than me and just lying about it

You literally said one logs onto Leo's nation in the post above. Wait I'll even quote it. 

 

14 minutes ago, Bjorn Ironside said:

yes it does, even people from other alliances using BKnet will log leo on his account to do trades, send resources even kick people

The bot in principle was to send bank money and nothing else. Any hidden activities would be news to me and I imagine @Curufinwe and others. 

5 minutes ago, Bjorn Ironside said:

Who said Leo did it to avoid reps? I said he has done it before "claim to have been hacked" seems you know more about than me and just lying about it

James claimed that multiple times. I'm asking for said proof. I'm also asking for proof where Leo has claimed to be hacked in the past. If you don't wish to send it forward, then you're the liar here. 

 

6 minutes ago, Bjorn Ironside said:

I am very disappointment someone like you who claims to be honourable and truthful so willingly lying, it is a shame really, when we was talking about the deal with BK it was shocking the comments you made, the lies you told and more to the point the ooc remarks you made, I am not sure why i waste my time talking to the likes of you to go so dark and so deep in to someones irl just to cause pain and lie about it, so sick 

I don't claim to be honourable, but I am truthful yes. I haven't lied to you. I said there's a deal, a 6month NAP and no previous reason can be used to hit you. After that deal, whatever happens, happens. Where exactly do you find any log where I discuss breaking the NAP? In fact, I spoke to Leo on your behalf to get that NAP in order, to give you six months to figure out where you want to go, and what you want to do in this game, and even offered you NPO's protection. I'm yet to see where any of that some how makes me a liar. 

Again what OOC remarks? You can ask @Yuno about this one as well. She said I conducted OOC attacks against you, and I submitted our entire conversation to her, and she said there was nothing of an ooc manner. But if you want to spin it that way, feel free. I don't particularly care in causing pain to you IRL, or anyone over a game. I do enjoy the politics and different experiments within the game in terms of foreign policy, but I keep it to that. But keep going on this tangent, I look forward to discussing this in further detail, to once again prove how you're great at misrepresenting facts. 

[James II]

3 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

That's more on point. It's more an interface, that we put the amounts in, Leo's nation sends it out. There's no direct connection between user and Leo's nation. We don't have his nation details, access to his physical nation on the Politics and War page, and most definitely do not have access to his alliance management permissions. All of which folks keep conflating into this argument. 

 

You literally said one logs onto Leo's nation in the post above. Wait I'll even quote it. 

 

The bot in principle was to send bank money and nothing else. Any hidden activities would be news to me and I imagine @Curufinwe and others. 

James claimed that multiple times. I'm asking for said proof. I'm also asking for proof where Leo has claimed to be hacked in the past. If you don't wish to send it forward, then you're the liar here. 

 

I don't claim to be honourable, but I am truthful yes. I haven't lied to you. I said there's a deal, a 6month NAP and no previous reason can be used to hit you. After that deal, whatever happens, happens. Where exactly do you find any log where I discuss breaking the NAP? In fact, I spoke to Leo on your behalf to get that NAP in order, to give you six months to figure out where you want to go, and what you want to do in this game, and even offered you NPO's protection. I'm yet to see where any of that some how makes me a liar. 

Again what OOC remarks? You can ask @Yuno about this one as well. She said I conducted OOC attacks against you, and I submitted our entire conversation to her, and she said there was nothing of an ooc manner. But if you want to spin it that way, feel free. I don't particularly care in causing pain to you IRL, or anyone over a game. I do enjoy the politics and different experiments within the game in terms of foreign policy, but I keep it to that. But keep going on this tangent, I look forward to discussing this in further detail, to once again prove how you're great at misrepresenting facts. 

But you perform actions using Leo's account without leo manually clicking, logging in, or doing anything. So people can access his account and perofmr actions, albeit limited ones. But leo does not perform any manual action on his account it is all automated? He does nothing?

 

Edit: him calling you a liar isn't an ooc attack as you do it all the time (ic). Whether or not you perpetually lie outside of the game too has nothing to do with it.

Edited January 17, 2020 by James II

[Guest Curufinwe]

54 minutes ago, Cypher said:

Curu, I think it’d be a lot easier if you show logs of Gorge saying he’s capable and willing to remove members with BKnet rather than arguing from a position where you’re withholding evidence. 

Sure.  He's him saying that he has the ability to do so to his fellow leaders in Coalition A:

Here's it actually happening less than an hour later:

I mean maybe it's totally a huge coincidence that this happened almost immediately after he brought up that he could do it (and during the same period he robbed our bank via BKnet, the same method that we believe was used to boot the members), but I think any reasonably fair minded person (IE not James) will conclude that the guy who announced that he could do something right before it happened is the most likely culprit.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Curufinwe

[Kastor]

25 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

Yes telling you to own the fact you're okay with actions like is tears. Great rebuttal, much vow. 

Nope. You put your request onto BKNet, and Leo's nation will forward it. At no point did we physically log in. 

It definitely didn't have a component to kick people when it came out. News to me, but thanks George! 

I'm a liar is it? Leo has claimed he was hacked before to escape reps? Please show me where. 

Haha. Says the guy who's misrepresenting how BKNet/Ayybank worked. Good job. 

Say what you want about him, but BKnet worked almost exactly how he described it.

[Shadowthrone]

1 minute ago, Kastor said:

Say what you want about him, but BKnet worked almost exactly how he described it.

People claim we have access to Leo's account in PnW. We do not. Hugely different.

 

10 minutes ago, James II said:

But you perform actions using Leo's account without leo manually clicking, logging in, or doing anything. So people can access his account and perofmr actions, albeit limited ones. But leo does not perform any manual action on his account it is all automated? He does nothing?

 

Via an interface that gives you no control over Leo's account is the key difference.

10 minutes ago, James II said:

Edit: him calling you a liar isn't an ooc attack as you do it all the time (ic). Whether or not you perpetually lie outside of the game too has nothing to do with it.

No where did I claim I was ooc attacked. I was simply rebutting his claims that I did though. You seem to selectively read though, weird.

[James II]

1 minute ago, Shadowthrone said:

People claim we have access to Leo's account in PnW. We do not. Hugely different.

 

Via an interface that gives you no control over Leo's account is the key difference.

No where did I claim I was ooc attacked. I was simply rebutting his claims that I did though. You seem to selectively read though, weird.

You perform actions on Leo's nation without Leo taking any actions. I e. You have access to his account and use it to perform actions with his nation without him making any manual contribution. So either it is automatic and no manual input is neccsarrry(bannable) or you perform actions on his account (i.e. you are accessing it)

[Azaghul]

Regardless of how careless Leo might have been with bot security, that doesn't excuse or justify using it to kick members.

I'd like to think that we as a community can avoid malicious use of tools and forcing people to spend lots of time on security measures to prevent malicious use.

A certain level of OOC trust and respect on this would benefit everyone.

[Shadowthrone]

8 minutes ago, James II said:

You perform actions on Leo's nation without Leo taking any actions. I e. You have access to his account and use it to perform actions with his nation without him making any manual contribution. So either it is automatic and no manual input is neccsarrry(bannable) or you perform actions on his account (i.e. you are accessing it)

I do enjoy your love for buzzwords and constant repetition of the term in the hope that it'd be true. It is not bannable, it was okayed by Admin years ago. I don't access his account, the interface does, all I have is the interface, where I pop a number in, and the money is sent. The bot does nothing else. If one has to move banks, they'd have to manually move it. I know this because I've held BK's bank for a while, and moved across offshores and all. The bot doesn't trade for you. You don't pop in a buy or sell request and it magically appears in your nation. Furthermore, the bot most definitely should not have access to BK's in game control panel. Those were all things that we were told about the system in place. 

The last part is news to quite a few of us, except George, and the fact that he used it and you don't mind that, is even more surprising. But if you don't mind it, than pointing that out should not be problematic to you. 

I'm still looking forward to your proof regarding Leo's previous claims though. I enjoy this entire tangent we've gone on. 

Colour me shocked. This whole war has gotten so convoluted I'm actually in support of @Cooper_ and @Azaghul's positions. Hell did freeze over, the day TKR low government and NPO seemingly have a common stance on something

[James II]

1 minute ago, Shadowthrone said:

I do enjoy your love for buzzwords and constant repetition of the term in the hope that it'd be true. It is not bannable, it was okayed by Admin years ago. I don't access his account, the interface does, all I have is the interface, where I pop a number in, and the money is sent. The bot does nothing else. If one has to move banks, they'd have to manually move it. I know this because I've held BK's bank for a while, and moved across offshores and all. The bot doesn't trade for you. You don't pop in a buy or sell request and it magically appears in your nation. Furthermore, the bot most definitely should not have access to BK's in game control panel. Those were all things that we were told about the system in place. 

The last part is news to quite a few of us, except George, and the fact that he used it and you don't mind that, is even more surprising. But if you don't mind it, than pointing that out should not be problematic to you. 

I'm still looking forward to your proof regarding Leo's previous claims though. I enjoy this entire tangent we've gone on. 

Colour me shocked. This whole war has gotten so convoluted I'm actually in support of @Cooper_ and @Azaghul's positions. Hell did freeze over, the day TKR low government and NPO seemingly have a common stance on something

As far as I know gorge did not use it to remove people. And the removals came from Leo's nation.

[Guest Curufinwe]

1 minute ago, James II said:

You perform actions on Leo's nation without Leo taking any actions. I e. You have access to his account and use it to perform actions with his nation without him making any manual contribution. So either it is automatic and no manual input is neccsarrry(bannable) or you perform actions on his account (i.e. you are accessing it)

Everything done on BKnet was explicitly endorsed by Alex beforehand and the system has in fact been in place long before Leo became leader of BK (it was originally designed by Yoso, I believe).  The system is currently not active due to Gorge's hijinks, but if you have a basic issue with its existence, take it up with Alex.  As for what it actually does, I'm not a programmer and don't pretend to have an in-depth knowledge of the system, but its primary function is to log and send bank transactions and automated mess messages through a nation that is synced to it (in this case, Leo's).  It appears it's also possible to use it to boot members, though Tiber (who is actually a programmer) will need to go through it to figure out exactly how it was done.  You can't 'play' the game via BKnet (IE a user couldn't make a trade on the market or launch an attack in a war), which (as I understand it) is why Alex ruled that it was acceptable.  Until recent events took place, it was more of a time saving device that simplified AA management.  Anyways, the fact that Gorge was able to access the system to transfer the bank to his nation (which he has admitted doing), combined with the fact that he openly told a large group of people that he could boot BK's members without our consent shortly before it happened is pretty damning, regardless of your opinion of Leo or BK.

 

[Shadowthrone]

3 minutes ago, James II said:

As far as I know gorge did not use it to remove people. And the removals came from Leo's nation.

Nope, I posit it is very likely that he did it. He explicitly stated he could and an hour later the actions began. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Shadowthrone

[Guest Curufinwe]

1 minute ago, James II said:

As far as I know gorge did not use it to remove people. And the removals came from Leo's nation.

I think you're just being obtuse now.  If a guy says he is able to do something, does indeed do something on the same system in the same timeframe and then the thing that the guy said he could do happens at the same time, you have to have your head pretty deep in the sand to continue to blame the people who were wronged in the situation.  Maybe take a step back from the IC political crap and look at this in a more objective light and you'll be able to make a more balanced assessment.

[James II]

4 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

 Maybe take a step back from the IC political crap and look at this in a more objective light and you'll be able to make a more balanced assessment.

I could say the same thing to you. You are the ones who have a habit of lying. You cry wolf so many times,. Why should I believe it this time? Especially when you operate on such a sketchy system.

[Shadowthrone]

1 minute ago, James II said:

I could say the same thing to you. You are the ones who have a habit of lying. You cry wolf so many times,. Why should I believe it this time? Especially when you operate on such a sketchy system.

I'm still awaiting for the proof of crying wolf. Should not be so hard if it was this fresh in your memory. 

Also while you're at it, can you give a few times where BK lied?  

[Guest Curufinwe]

1 minute ago, James II said:

I could say the same thing to you. You are the ones who have a habit of lying. You cry wolf so many times,. Why should I believe it this time? Especially when you operate on such a sketchy system.

Citation needed.  Also, because we provided logs of a channel YOU WERE IN where Gorge outlined his ability to do the thing that happened almost immediately after.  

[Shadowthrone]

1 minute ago, Curufinwe said:

Citation needed.  Also, because we provided logs of a channel YOU WERE IN where Gorge outlined his ability to do the thing that happened almost immediately after.  

Also where his government supported the said action, and James was the first to come up with a "counter-argument" to the whole thing, claiming Leo's done it in the past to escape reps. I'm still trying to remember when Leo ever led BK during a war where we negotiated reps. Wasn't that Yoso and then you @Curufinwe? Something fishy about his timelines. 

[James II]

2 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said:

I'm still awaiting for the proof of crying wolf. Should not be so hard if it was this fresh in your memory. 

Also while you're at it, can you give a few times where BK lied?  

About not planning to hit Chaos and KEETOG after they finished their war with each other. 

 

Like I said I'm not going to bother fishing through the owf. I could present it to you and you would still deny it. Plus you aren't the target audience. You won't change your mind ever. You've made yourselves the victims for 7 months now.